Liverpool FC Forum

So sell two of our longest serving most loyal players, at a time when we are struggling to keep a local heartbeat in the side as it as, for how much exactly? Clubs arnt going to be writing twenty million pound cheques for two men well past thirty. There is zero value in selling Gerrard and Carragher from a objective standpoint, let alone whilst wearing the red tinted specs.

burjennio » Thu May 10, 2012 9:12 pm wrote:So sell two of our longest serving most loyal players, at a time when we are struggling to keep a local heartbeat in the side as it as, for how much exactly? Clubs arnt going to be writing twenty million pound cheques for two men well past thirty. There is zero value in selling Gerrard and Carragher from a objective standpoint, let alone whilst wearing the red tinted specs.

Errrr. I DID say it's likely he'd stay, SG, that is. Carra is past it, end of. Too slow, stuffed by any striker with pace. Time for Agger and Coates to step up and make the position their own.
Stevie G is accident prone, reminds me of Matt Le Tissier and Darren Anderton - a couple of good games and then he's out for weeks. He's lost his pace, was invisible in the FA Cup final etc. etc. Now I'm not saying he doesn't bleed red for the club (all you pedantics, f**k off ), but we need to see more in the way of successors...

mart » Wed May 09, 2012 6:22 pm wrote:

friendlyguy33 » Wed May 09, 2012 5:22 pm wrote:

D___C » Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 pm wrote:A top central midfield signing is imperative.

Where will that leave Gerrard if Lucas is assumed to be the first choice holding midfielder next season?

On the right or just behind suarez depending on how we play. With his injuries he is likely to miss a lot of games next season too.

Depending how we play? So we're not going to sign a right sided player then? Where does Downing fit into all of this? Kenny isn't tactically minded in the way Rafa was with 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 he's very much a 4-4-2 man it's what he was brought up on and what served him well in the late 80s/90s with Liverpool and Blackburn.

I don't think Gerrard will leave because he doesn't want to and I doubt that there's few interested European clubs now anyway. The problem is that if a top midfielder comes in during the summer Gerrard is going to play less and less him and Adam will be used as back up Adam particularly in the Europa League. Carragher has probably one more season in him Gerrard quite possibly only two. We need someone dominant who can either have the effect that Alonso had or who can score goals and impact on things alongside Lucas. 

Also this tactical plan of playing Sterling in a 4-3-3 with Suarez and Carroll won't happen. The lad isn't ready to be a first team regular that much is obvious even if he has shown promise in his sub games so far. He's at least two seasons away from being able to get into the first team on a regular basis.

May aswell keep this thread for general tactics etc under the new manager.

Anyway I think we're at a decent stage now to discuss where we are heading or trying to head.

The tiki/taka is a good philosophy going forward but it'll take time to implement properly. We'll have games where we play teams off the park and win well but we'll also have games like last night where we get mugged on the counter. Under this new philosophy we make the field so big in possession which helps us dominate possession but it also gives us greater distances to cover to regroup into a compact defensive shape. I think we need to get back into our defensive shape quicker when we don't have the ball. Not having Lucas doesn't help in this respect.

Sad thing is this Tika-Taka has made us conceed goals more than we scored. Do we really have the right players to master it like Barcelona? I don't think so.

club_Levis » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:57 am wrote:Sad thing is this Tika-Taka has made us conceed goals more than we scored. Do we really have the right players to master it like Barcelona? I don't think so.

Wrong. Individual errors are to blame for that.

Its very early days everyone , you' be deluded to think he would have implemented his style by now. Give him time and see where we are come end of season. I'd be dissapointed if we dont finish higher than last season but i wont panic until thats confirmed.

Please all do not book into a clinic just yet, things will improve.

tubby » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am wrote:

club_Levis » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:57 am wrote:Sad thing is this Tika-Taka has made us conceed goals more than we scored. Do we really have the right players to master it like Barcelona? I don't think so.

Wrong. Individual errors are to blame for that.

But we get more of those errors because of the tactics. Our players are not as technically gifted as the barca players. When we pass it around endlessly in midfield someone ends up making a passing mistake that gives the opposition a chance to counter attack. A lot of the goals against us has been created this way.

tubby » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:49 am wrote:
Wrong. Individual errors are to blame for that.

I agree, our defenders are having a terrible season so far this season. Individual errors are costing us invaluable points and Rodgers needs to do something about it. You can argue that Brendan's style of play is at fault, but defending is defending irrespective of the playing system in operation.

stmichael » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:27 pm wrote:May aswell keep this thread for general tactics etc under the new manager.

Anyway I think we're at a decent stage now to discuss where we are heading or trying to head.

The tiki/taka is a good philosophy going forward but it'll take time to implement properly. We'll have games where we play teams off the park and win well but we'll also have games like last night where we get mugged on the counter. Under this new philosophy we make the field so big in possession which helps us dominate possession but it also gives us greater distances to cover to regroup into a compact defensive shape. I think we need to get back into our defensive shape quicker when we don't have the ball. Not having Lucas doesn't help in this respect.

Good bump, good point.

I would really like to know Rodgers' philosophy on defending right about now. I'm worried we're shipping in on average two goals a game. I've said it before and I'm only repeating what I have already said. We've heard constantly how the possession and attacking philosophy of Rodgers' style is to be implemented but the defensive side of this system seriously needs work, and quick. This problem for me is more of a worry than our 'lack of goals' or striking options, down the recent years we've been very miserly at the back and well organised, now we look vulnerable, as you say, on the counter especially.

A balance needs to be found and I find it hard to see how we'll effectively achieve this when really we only have 1 sitter in Allen and Shelvey and Gerrard for e.g. much further forward supporting the other 3!

I think it's got to be in the flanks, as a way to alleviate this problem say for example, if Kelly,Wisdom or Johnson and Borini are pushed on, then Enrique, Robinson and either Shelvey or Gerrard need to sit and not commit. Sterling will need IMO to stay wide on the opposing flank so IMO either Gerrard or Shelvey will/should be more disciplined.



                              -----              Reina

                       Skertel                Agger                Enrique

                                     Allen

Wisdom                                                    Gerrard
    |
    V
                                               Shelvey
                                                   |
                                                   V
                                               Suarez                    Sterling
Borini                                          |                   
    |                                            V
    V           

I don't know whether I'm on the ball here    just rambling a bit. But Gerrard or whom ever needs to be disciplined and hold that position, almost as though Allen and him are working as the ball winners deeper. Skertel, Agger and Enrique IMO though need to push up and condense as much space as they can, so that the front three aren't 70 yards a part from the back 3. Obviously playing this way I think the defense needs to be much closer to the half way line 5-10 yards off it, so that Allen and Gerrard are in a tighter, more condensed area and can't be as exposed to a 30 yard midfield splitting pass or a quick spacious counter attack.

South East Kop » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:59 am wrote:
Please all do not book into a clinic just yet, things will improve.

But how do you know...

it`s not so much the tactics that have cost us goals but individual errors, last week it was reina and skrtel dropping clangers, against united agger tried to do a drag back at the halfway line and missed the ball completely, against city kelly and skrtel just basically gifted them two goals, against west brom skrtel dropped danny agger in the proverbial when he slipped over and then for their second he got caught dawdling on the ball and against arsenal their first goal was a shambles which started out with a slack pass from gerrard and ended with lazy tracking back by johnson and their second you`d expect a keeper of reina`s quality to save.
if we cut out the basic errors our defence will improve dramatically.

I dont know, i just have faith and belief. We have a great mix of talent right now and i'd hope come next feb we will have one or two more big names. Be dissapointed if that is not the case.

Today will be a real test for stoke wont lay down easy, they have purpose in their style compared to other 'bottom half' sides. I'd expect we should pick up 3 points but a decent performance and 1 point wont leave me searching for a knife.

I'd  just ask people to have faith and review where we are come may, thats when br should be judged.

Brendan's tactics and Philosophy seems to be to flood the 1st team with a lot of inexperienced youngsters, some of who may be not ready to take the leap to the first team.

the likes of Suso, Assaidi, Sterling, Pacheco, etc etc playing every week in the first team, may cost us points in the league, as Brendan is trying to experiment.

And the likes of Joe Allen and Borini, have never played for a big club.

In my book, instead of risking playing such an inexperienced lot, there are top players overnight that can instantly make you a better, stronger team.

I don't believe in these 3-5 year plans. You can buy quality that can overnight make you far stronger.

i think his plans are risky for LFC, seeing as we havent dabbled in the transfer market properly, buying proven quality, so don't be surprised if results suffer. Thats all Im saying.

Garbage today. Playing the youngsters really pays off doesn't it Brendan!??

I think we are going in the wrong direction