Liverpool FC Forum

While you're at the top challenging for the title and playing CL football, the domestic cups are less of a priority than they are when you've been through a period of upheaval, like we have, and haven't won a single trophy for six seasons. Given that context, it makes me wonder why some people would so readily 'trade' a top four place, merely a shot at CL football, merely an opportunity to increase our revenue and sign better players, for a cup double. Actual success over potential success? True, the league is ultimately where we need to see progress made because that's where the greater glory lies, but at this stage in our development a cup double would be pretty good doing and definitely not something I would 'happily' trade for a higher league position and a shot at the CL, a competition we clearly aren't yet ready to compete for.

LFC2007 wrote:While you're at the top challenging for the title and playing CL football, the domestic cups are less of a priority than they are when you've been through a period of upheaval, like we have, and haven't won a single trophy for six seasons. Given that context, it makes me wonder why some people would so readily 'trade' a top four place, merely a shot at CL football, merely an opportunity to increase our revenue and sign better players, for a cup double. Actual success over potential success? True, the league is ultimately where we need to see progress made because that's where the greater glory lies, but at this stage in our development a cup double would be pretty good doing and definitely not something I would 'happily' trade for a higher league position and a shot at the CL, a competition we clearly aren't yet ready to compete for.

Correctomundo
Some daft tw@ts on here lately

LFC2007 wrote:While you're at the top challenging for the title and playing CL football, the domestic cups are less of a priority than they are when you've been through a period of upheaval, like we have, and haven't won a single trophy for six seasons. Given that context, it makes me wonder why some people would so readily 'trade' a top four place, merely a shot at CL football, merely an opportunity to increase our revenue and sign better players, for a cup double. Actual success over potential success? True, the league is ultimately where we need to see progress made because that's where the greater glory lies, but at this stage in our development a cup double would be pretty good doing and definitely not something I would 'happily' trade for a higher league position and a shot at the CL, a competition we clearly aren't yet ready to compete for.

Just playing devils advocate, but if you look at the outcome of a FA cup win, bar the actual trophy, there is very little financial reward, it won't really attract the high calibre players we need for a push towards the ultimate goal of a PL title and I don't see it cementing and increasing our international fan base. Like it or not getting into a champions league spot has become a 'trophy' of sorts, just getting out of the group stages is worth millions, players are vying to play in the champions league and our escapades during Rafas time have definatly endeared us to a new set of supporters. I doubt we would have for example got Torres when we did without our performances in the CL, and nobody would have thought we were ready to compete in 2005. I think there is a case, however impossible, to wishfully consider giving up the FA cup for a place in the CL, I'm not sure the owners would disagree.

Yeah, winning the FA Cup used to be a grand event before the advent of CL, but now it's all about qualifying for CL and the millions that follow. Because of our 'poor' league form of too many draws and inconsistency, winning domestic trophies and the publicity that goes along with it is all that we're playing for. We will find it hard to attract star names in the summer because of that.

One solution I can think of is, start recruiting unknown youngsters who are the future Messis from all over the world into the academy and when they mature, they can hopefully bring back the glory days. This is the only solution out of this Catch 22 situation we're in now.

its like football has died. everyone believes that the only thing that matters is winning the champions league, or even just coming 4th in the league so you can play in it, attract 'the star players', etc etc. football clubs and footballers exist to win trophies. footballers like to get their hands on winners medals and i'd bet that the vast majority at the end of their careers would prefer to look at their box of domestic cup winner's medals than at old newspaper cuttings about how their team came 4th and entered the qualifying rounds of the champions league.

i would also expect that many good players who are looking at moving clubs would be more attracted to one that is actually winning domestic trophies than just having the chance to make the first round of the CL.

redtrader74 wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:While you're at the top challenging for the title and playing CL football, the domestic cups are less of a priority than they are when you've been through a period of upheaval, like we have, and haven't won a single trophy for six seasons. Given that context, it makes me wonder why some people would so readily 'trade' a top four place, merely a shot at CL football, merely an opportunity to increase our revenue and sign better players, for a cup double. Actual success over potential success? True, the league is ultimately where we need to see progress made because that's where the greater glory lies, but at this stage in our development a cup double would be pretty good doing and definitely not something I would 'happily' trade for a higher league position and a shot at the CL, a competition we clearly aren't yet ready to compete for.

Just playing devils advocate, but if you look at the outcome of a FA cup win, bar the actual trophy, there is very little financial reward, it won't really attract the high calibre players we need for a push towards the ultimate goal of a PL title and I don't see it cementing and increasing our international fan base. Like it or not getting into a champions league spot has become a 'trophy' of sorts, just getting out of the group stages is worth millions, players are vying to play in the champions league and our escapades during Rafas time have definatly endeared us to a new set of supporters. I doubt we would have for example got Torres when we did without our performances in the CL, and nobody would have thought we were ready to compete in 2005. I think there is a case, however impossible, to wishfully consider giving up the FA cup for a place in the CL, I'm not sure the owners would disagree.

I've had the exact same conversation with an Arsenal fan who said he wouldn't trade one of their failed CL campaigns for the CC or the FA Cup; personally, I think he's crazy to say that. Trophies are a mark of achievement and one of the main problems with modern day football is the unbalance of revenue, or more specifically, everyones focus on it. The 'double' has lost its prestiege because of people focusing on the financial reward rather than the achievement itself. The Arsenal fan almost sounded as if the financial stability of his club was worth the 7 seasons of no trophies, while I do acknowledge what Wenger has achieved, he's won FA. Competing in Europe would be great but like LFC says, we aren't ready for that imo and even if we were, Barca or Real will win it. If the skanks won any of these competitions I bet we'd be looking at them with envy, people rip the Europa League to pieces and, while I don't exactly like the competition or the format, I wouldn't want the Mancs to win it ever - its a mark of success, regardless of the financial reward it brings.

btw this Arsenal fan aslo said every Liverpool manager has survived solely because of his success in the Carling Cup so it's probably best to ignore him anyway 

My friend at work who is an Arsenal fan would rather see his club win a Carling Cup or FA Cup trophy and is angry that all Arsene Wenger seems interested in is making a profit. He says he is fed up with Arsenal's only ambition being "getting fourth place" every season.

No doubt that we have to get back into the Champions League, but we should be building a squad to win the League and qualify for the Champions League that way. Nobody remembers fourth place, third place or second place, they only ever remember the Champions and that's what we should be aiming to achieve. You don't need to spend silly money like Chelsea or Man City to obtain the League title either.

Greavesie wrote:
btw this Arsenal fan aslo said every Liverpool manager has survived solely because of his success in the Carling Cup so it's probably best to ignore him anyway 

I don't remember Rafa Benitez winning the Carling Cup.

KENNY DALGLISH believes any new arrivals to Liverpool this summer must be “a hell of a player” – but admits discussions with the club’s owners over funds have yet to take place.

Fenway Sports Group have handed over more than £100m to spend on squad strengthening since Dalglish assumed charge 14 months ago.

Despite subsequent success in both domestic cup competitions, Liverpool are expected to once again be busy in the close season market as they look to bolster their chances of claiming Champions League qualification.

And although definitive targets are still to be pinpointed, Dalglish claims the club will resist another major overhaul and are only interested in a high calibre of player.

“We look at games and players but we have not got any clear picture in our mind of what we want,” said Dalglish, whose side visit Premier League strugglers Queens Park Rangers this evening.

“The players here have done fantastically well and if anyone is going to come in they will have to be a hell of a player to do better than what they have done.

“These boys are in pole position, they are sitting there comfortable, none of them can be disappointed with what they have contributed this season.

“So we are not going to be sharp to get rid of anyone so if anyone else is coming in to add what they’ve done they need to be better than what we have here.”

While Dalglish and director of football Damien Comolli are running the rule over a number of options, talks are yet to begin with principal owner John Henry and chairman Tom Werner over the available budget.

“We have not had any discussions about funds, so I wouldn’t know (how much I have to spend),” said the Liverpool manager. “Someone else is in a position to discuss that with them and then they will come back and say there’s the budget.

“As we have always said whatever John and Tom can afford will go on players, they have always done that since they came in and they will continue to do it.

“The only irresponsible act would be if they gave a lot more than what they had and then we might end up in a bit of trouble.”

Liverpool head to Loftus Road looking to close the 10-point gap on fourth-placed Arsenal and keep alive their faint hopes of Champions League qualification.

Glen Johnson, Craig Bellamy and Daniel Agger remain sidelined while Dirk Kuyt, Jordan Henderson and Charlie Adam are all pressing for a recall to the starting line-up.

Martin Kelly is expected to again deputise for Johnson at right-back despite limping off towards the end of Sunday’s FA Cup quarter-final win over Stoke City.

And Kelly has earned the praise of Dalglish for his recent performances.

“I thought he was struggling with the injury, but it’s not too bad,” said the Liverpool manager. “I think it’s only a kick.

“He has done well since he has been back in the team. In the games that he has played this year, he has shown more maturity than what he had before.

“Last season came to an abrupt ending for him because of a couple of injuries. But we have worked really hard with him on the prevention side of it, both Martin and ourselves. His performances recently have been excellent.”

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/l ... -30587292/

Thommo's perm wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:While you're at the top challenging for the title and playing CL football, the domestic cups are less of a priority than they are when you've been through a period of upheaval, like we have, and haven't won a single trophy for six seasons. Given that context, it makes me wonder why some people would so readily 'trade' a top four place, merely a shot at CL football, merely an opportunity to increase our revenue and sign better players, for a cup double. Actual success over potential success? True, the league is ultimately where we need to see progress made because that's where the greater glory lies, but at this stage in our development a cup double would be pretty good doing and definitely not something I would 'happily' trade for a higher league position and a shot at the CL, a competition we clearly aren't yet ready to compete for.

Correctomundo
Some daft tw@ts on here lately

Enough said.

Tell you what, lets sit back and settle for carling cups, fa cups etc, and watch thr mancs rack up title numbers 20,21,22,23,24,25 and compete in CL finals, semis , and doing doubles and trebles, whilst laughing at LFC's demise.
Meanwhile we can bask in the glory of bring out of the title race every season by december 1st, not even able to compete in the CL, but look forward to a day out v cardiff at wembley, so some fickle fans who cant see the cracks behind the wallpaper, can have a coach day out.
)

spiceboys2014 wrote:Tell you what, lets sit back and settle for carling cups, fa cups etc, and watch thr mancs rack up title numbers 20,21,22,23,24,25 and compete in CL finals, semis , and doing doubles and trebles, whilst laughing at LFC's demise.
Meanwhile we can bask in the glory of bring out of the title race every season by december 1st, not even able to compete in the CL, but look forward to a day out v cardiff at wembley, so some fickle fans who cant see the cracks behind the wallpaper, can have a coach day out.
)

"lets sit back and settle for carling cups"

As I said before, some daft tw@ts on here lately...

“The players here have done fantastically well and if anyone is going to come in they will have to be a hell of a player to do better than what they have done."

I disagree with this sentence, I don't think the players have performed fantastically well at all this season. They haven't been poor by any means, but they haven't been fantastic. I have been largely disappointed with all of our summer signings bar Enrique.

“These boys are in pole position, they are sitting there comfortable, none of them can be disappointed with what they have contributed this season.

What does Kenny mean by pole position? What is he referring to here? They are sitting comfortable in 7th place? I disagree, I think players like Carroll, Downing and Henderson can all be disappointed with what they haven't contributed to this season. Carroll just isn't scoring goals which is what he was brought in to do, Downing is only really starting to find some consistency and potency in attack and Jordan Henderson just hasn't done much all season. He has shown glimpses of class, but has yet to find any real bite to his performances. I blame Kenny for that, you don't play a CM on the wing, you just don't do it.

spiceboys2014 wrote:Tell you what, lets sit back and settle for carling cups, fa cups etc, and watch thr mancs rack up title numbers 20,21,22,23,24,25 and compete in CL finals, semis , and doing doubles and trebles, whilst laughing at LFC's demise.
Meanwhile we can bask in the glory of bring out of the title race every season by december 1st, not even able to compete in the CL, but look forward to a day out v cardiff at wembley, so some fickle fans who cant see the cracks behind the wallpaper, can have a coach day out.
)

Liverpool were born to win trophies, if you think the FA cup and Carling cup are paper over the cracks then your deluded.

Thommo's perm wrote:

spiceboys2014 wrote:Tell you what, lets sit back and settle for carling cups, fa cups etc, and watch thr mancs rack up title numbers 20,21,22,23,24,25 and compete in CL finals, semis , and doing doubles and trebles, whilst laughing at LFC's demise.
Meanwhile we can bask in the glory of bring out of the title race every season by december 1st, not even able to compete in the CL, but look forward to a day out v cardiff at wembley, so some fickle fans who cant see the cracks behind the wallpaper, can have a coach day out.
)

"lets sit back and settle for carling cups"

As I said before, some daft tw@ts on here lately...

That was sarcasm by me ,settling for carling cups,
Please read it a second time, with ur specs this time. ur second statement was 100% correct tho