Luis Suarez signs for Barcelona

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Postby maguskwt » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:08 am

andy_g wrote:you know, i'm going to be very interested to see how we get on without suarez while he's banned. it goes without saying that he is an electric talent and adds a whole new dimension to our approach play - but the flip side is that he is so frigging wasteful it makes me tear my hair out. the number of times he tries to do it all himself but ends up missing the chance, getting tackled or giving the ball away is incredible. i know we'll miss him in many ways, but i have the feeling that a more direct approach in his absence might just see a few more goals.

Kenny should have a talk with him and turn him into a less selfish player. The grease ball Ronaldo became world class after he became less selfish...
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Postby Dundalk » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:58 pm

Tony Evans in The Times



I don’t know much about South American culture and slang. I do know, however, a little about the mechanics of confrontation. Even at Sunday League level, I’ve had verbal spats and faced down opposition players from Everton Valley to East Los Angeles. As a fan, I’ve exchanged insults —and worse —with rival supporters from Trafford Park to the Tiber.

That’s just the football-related stuff. In real life, I’ve been in the middle of riots, squared up to police on picket lines and fought fascist bully-boys with bare knuckles.

What have I learnt? Not much, but enough to know that if I’m having a row with a black man and I make a reference to his colour, he’s going to think it’s a racist slur.

Luis Suárez, Liverpool Football Club and legions of their fans seem bewildered that the word negrito directed at a black man in the course of an argument would lead the individual concerned to assume that he had been racially abused.

Nobody would deny that the exchange between Suárez and Patrice Evra was acrimonious. Nobody would deny that the word negrito makes reference to blackness. So where are Suárez’s grounds for defence?

Well, the linguistic experts tell us that negrito is not a pejorative term. In fact, it appears that it is a friendly phrase in Hispanic culture. In one defence of the Liverpool striker, the writer talked of hearing a young, white woman with a dark complexion being referred to by the same term during a business transaction in Buenos Aires.

The problem with this is that Evra is not a young white woman, nor is he Hispanic. He is a short, black Frenchman, who, from his perspective, appears to have been called something akin to “little black boy” by someone he was having a row with. Suárez, quite clearly, was not being genial. He was winding up Evra on the pitch in the heat of a Liverpool v Manchester United game. No wonder the defender felt racially abused.

In September, a mere handful of Liverpool fans would have even heard the term negrito. Now they are experts in the semantics of Hispanic slang, describing in detail how it is a term of affection. Well, if Suárez was being affectionate to a United player during a game, the club should crack down on him. An eight-game ban? Surely that should be a sackable offence?

There are so many words in English, French and Spanish that can be used in a quarrel that referencing colour in any way seems at best ill-advised and at worst racist. Either way it’s ****** stupid.

Suárez may not have had any racist intent but the Hispanic subtleties were lost on Evra. They’d be lost on most in Britain.

So this unedifying spat continues with Liverpool supporters —almost to a man —behind Suárez.

It is embarrassing. Is it not possible for Liverpool fans to have some empathy with Evra? To see that he felt racially abused? Seemingly not in the pathetically tribal world of football, where basic decencies are thrown out the window and the “my club right or wrong” ethic prevails.

If it were all a cultural misunderstanding, why didn’t Liverpool nip it in the bud in October? It may be me, but once the word negrito cropped up I winced. I may be culturally naive, but it sounded ugly. It would sound worse to a black man.

The club should have put out a statement that read something like this: “Patrice Evra has alleged that Luis Suárez made racist remarks to him during the game at Anfield. Suárez denies this emphatically but has come to realise that it was easy for Evra to misunderstand the nuances of the Spanish phrase used and believe that he had been racially abused. Suárez would like to apologise unreservedly for any upset caused and make clear that he is against racism and discrimination in all its forms. It was a poor choice of words in the context but any student of South American culture will explain it has no racial overtones. In future, Liverpool Football Club will issue its players with a set of guidelines as to what is acceptable and not acceptable.”

Effectively, just say sorry, I didn’t mean that, I feel a bit stupid now.

Suárez is not a racist but he has been a fool. The trick is not to compound foolishness.

Instead, Liverpool put out a statement that threw the blame back at Evra, then gave us the risible sight of Suárez warming up at the DW Stadium before the Wigan Athletic match in a T-shirt supporting himself.

Pointing the finger at Evra is shameful. It can only harden the FA’s determination to make its point. And despite the more rabid conspiracy theorists, this is a battle that the FA would rather not have.

This situation —along with the John Terry/Anton Ferdinand incident —has brought the game into disrepute and exposed racial fault lines in football and society that most thought had been buried forever. One look at the abuse that Stan Collymore —a former Liverpool forward —has been receiving shows that. Sadly, it looks like decency has been buried instead.
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Postby metalhead » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:09 pm

I never liked Tony Evans, even from before and this article sums up how naive and ridiculious he is :no

Calls himself a Liverpool fan too :laugh: telling us its embarrassing to stick up for what we as supporters believe in...
Last edited by metalhead on Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby damjan193 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:37 pm

So... he's basically saying that banning Suarez was the right decision because Evra felt racially abused even though Suarez was misunderstood? If that's what he meant then he's obviously a :censored: idiot.

I liked the statement that he suggested we should use though. But what good would it be to us to release such a statement if Suarez has already been convicted?
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Postby red till i die!! » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:53 pm

that evans is a yam yam.
small time man who writes tabloid thrash in a posh paper!!.
i cant believe how many journo's are just rowing along to the victim tune of evra especially since the fa report hasnt been released yet.when that is we will get the full picture on what was said and how the panel came to their judgement.
at the moment on what is known i stand 100% in line behind suarez and think he was unfairly labelled and banned because patrice evra felt yet again that he was racially abused.
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Postby redtrader74 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:09 am

metalhead wrote:I never liked Tony Evans, even from before and this article sums up how naive and ridiculious he is :no

Calls himself a Liverpool fan too :laugh: telling us its embarrassing to stick up for what we as supporters believe in...

No one will stand up for Suarez publically outside of the club, even though they can see the legitimacy of the argument and the clear differences between the use of words in England and South America. There is a rabid politically correct cultural change in the UK, where any reference to someones colour raises at the very least an eyebrow, even though they can't see the hypocrisy in denying Suarez the right to speak his mother tongue. Tony evans is part of the media, and hasn't got the balls to say what he probably feels for fear of being branded racist. Like most other journalists he has also decided to pontificate, patronise, and send out the pc message.
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Postby Kerry07 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:13 am

This is the tony evans who wrote..."China buys Liverpool".. :laugh:

The guy is a journalist, a job that entails you give an opinion (and have a GCSE in English). Each and everyone of us who message on here do the very same thing he does except we dont get paid for it. Its a p1ss easy "job" and no more credence should be given to a journos opinion than anyone on here.

On the subject of Luis, he's clearly shattered mentally by the FA verdict. The last two games he has understandably look drained. Feel for the guy.
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Postby babu » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:36 am

andy_g wrote:you know, i'm going to be very interested to see how we get on without suarez while he's banned. it goes without saying that he is an electric talent and adds a whole new dimension to our approach play - but the flip side is that he is so frigging wasteful it makes me tear my hair out. the number of times he tries to do it all himself but ends up missing the chance, getting tackled or giving the ball away is incredible. i know we'll miss him in many ways, but i have the feeling that a more direct approach in his absence might just see a few more goals.

and the 2011 Newkit 'Silver Lining Award' for most optimistic post goes to.......



:D
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Postby Kerry07 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:50 am

babu wrote:
andy_g wrote:you know, i'm going to be very interested to see how we get on without suarez while he's banned. it goes without saying that he is an electric talent and adds a whole new dimension to our approach play - but the flip side is that he is so frigging wasteful it makes me tear my hair out. the number of times he tries to do it all himself but ends up missing the chance, getting tackled or giving the ball away is incredible. i know we'll miss him in many ways, but i have the feeling that a more direct approach in his absence might just see a few more goals.

and the 2011 Newkit 'Silver Lining Award' for most optimistic post goes to.......



:D

Its among the worst posts ive ever seen :laugh:

I'd advise him to go take a look at extensive footage of Uruguay at the 2011 Copa America and see how player of the tournament Suarez operates when he has a class striker (Forlan) alongside him to provide. When he doesn't (which is the case with us) he has to do it alone.. which is the reason he wrongly appears wasteful (to the ignorant). He has no choice with us than to go it alone and try to produce something himself. Put a quality player alongside him to provide and then you see the real Suarez.
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"Anfield es un templo de fútbol" AS
"The English club prove miracles do exist" D.Maradona
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Postby fivecups » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:47 am

Kerry07 wrote:
babu wrote:
andy_g wrote:you know, i'm going to be very interested to see how we get on without suarez while he's banned. it goes without saying that he is an electric talent and adds a whole new dimension to our approach play - but the flip side is that he is so frigging wasteful it makes me tear my hair out. the number of times he tries to do it all himself but ends up missing the chance, getting tackled or giving the ball away is incredible. i know we'll miss him in many ways, but i have the feeling that a more direct approach in his absence might just see a few more goals.

and the 2011 Newkit 'Silver Lining Award' for most optimistic post goes to.......



:D

Its among the worst posts ive ever seen :laugh:

Except it's really not.
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Postby The Good Yank » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:27 am

Kerry07 wrote:Its among the worst posts ive ever seen :laugh:

You obviously don't proof read before you click enter  :p
s@int - 13 December 2009

I won't celebrate Rafa going........ but I will be over the moon if Dalglish comes in. League within 2 years if he gets the job, AND YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THAT.
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Postby babu » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:23 am

Kerry07 wrote:
babu wrote:
andy_g wrote:you know, i'm going to be very interested to see how we get on without suarez while he's banned. it goes without saying that he is an electric talent and adds a whole new dimension to our approach play - but the flip side is that he is so frigging wasteful it makes me tear my hair out. the number of times he tries to do it all himself but ends up missing the chance, getting tackled or giving the ball away is incredible. i know we'll miss him in many ways, but i have the feeling that a more direct approach in his absence might just see a few more goals.

and the 2011 Newkit 'Silver Lining Award' for most optimistic post goes to.......



:D

Its among the worst posts ive ever seen :laugh:

I'd advise him to go take a look at extensive footage of Uruguay at the 2011 Copa America and see how player of the tournament Suarez operates when he has a class striker (Forlan) alongside him to provide. When he doesn't (which is the case with us) he has to do it alone.. which is the reason he wrongly appears wasteful (to the ignorant). He has no choice with us than to go it alone and try to produce something himself. Put a quality player alongside him to provide and then you see the real Suarez.

wow. that was exceptional. i thought it would be almost impossible to see the negative side of that.

I was wrong, congratulations and thanks for making my day gloomier.
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Postby Kerry07 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:37 am

fivecups wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
babu wrote:
andy_g wrote:you know, i'm going to be very interested to see how we get on without suarez while he's banned. it goes without saying that he is an electric talent and adds a whole new dimension to our approach play - but the flip side is that he is so frigging wasteful it makes me tear my hair out. the number of times he tries to do it all himself but ends up missing the chance, getting tackled or giving the ball away is incredible. i know we'll miss him in many ways, but i have the feeling that a more direct approach in his absence might just see a few more goals.

and the 2011 Newkit 'Silver Lining Award' for most optimistic post goes to.......



:D

Its among the worst posts ive ever seen :laugh:

Except it's really not.

care to expand?

What part of, Suarez does not have a top forward to link up with at Liverpool do u not get?

With Uruguay he has Forlan to provide and play off, and at the Copa America Suarez was peerless. You take away the guile and craft of Forlan and put the geordie lump there instead...Suarez no longer has the quality alongside him to feed and link up with.

The opposite is true with Messi, who doesnt look the same player with Argentina, as he doesnt have the same quality to link up with as he does at Barca. Hes exactly the same player, but whats different is those around him are not the same... so you dont get the same results.
"Its not just any other club" C.Tyldsley
"Liverpool are a special institution" X.Alonso
"Anfield es un templo de fútbol" AS
"The English club prove miracles do exist" D.Maradona
"Theres not one club in the world so united with its fans. Liverpool fans sent shivers down my spine" J.Cruyff
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Postby devaney » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:48 am

Kerry07 wrote:
fivecups wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
babu wrote:
andy_g wrote:you know, i'm going to be very interested to see how we get on without suarez while he's banned. it goes without saying that he is an electric talent and adds a whole new dimension to our approach play - but the flip side is that he is so frigging wasteful it makes me tear my hair out. the number of times he tries to do it all himself but ends up missing the chance, getting tackled or giving the ball away is incredible. i know we'll miss him in many ways, but i have the feeling that a more direct approach in his absence might just see a few more goals.

and the 2011 Newkit 'Silver Lining Award' for most optimistic post goes to.......



:D

Its among the worst posts ive ever seen :laugh:

Except it's really not.

care to expand?

What part of, Suarez does not have a top forward to link up with at Liverpool do u not get?

With Uruguay he has Forlan to provide and play off, and at the Copa America Suarez was peerless. You take away the guile and craft of Forlan and put the geordie lump there instead...Suarez no longer has the quality alongside him to feed and link up with.

The opposite is true with Messi, who doesnt look the same player with Argentina, as he doesnt have the same quality to link up with as he does at Barca. Hes exactly the same player, but whats different is those around him are not the same... so you dont get the same results.

Just how many goals has Suarez scored when the Geordie lump as you so affectionately call him wasn't on the pitch. I'm no fan of Carroll but you can't blame him for every last fkg thing. Suarez is brilliant but the Premiership has some of the best defences in the world including international football and Luis quite simply is finding it more difficult to score in the same way as Kuyt. Kuyt scored 38 goals for Feyenoyd in one season.That does not happen in the Premiership and Suarez has got to realise that.A lot of Premiership teams could have beaten some of the teams that played in the Copa America.
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Postby Ola Mr Benitez » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:50 am

Kerry07 - Can I ask how old you are please?
Our job is simple, to support the club, not just parts of the club that are easy to support, but every one who plays a part, that includes ALL players.  We are stronger when we are all walking in the same direction. Walk On
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