Luis Suarez signs for Barcelona

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Postby 7_Kewell » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:28 pm

Bermenstein wrote:As good as Suarez is as a player, he has a lot desired in his finishing.

His suspension could be a blessing in disguise. I think there is a lot of pressure on his shoulders at the moment, as with Gerrard out (up to now), Carrol playing :censored:, and the rest anaonamous, its been all up to Suarez to deliver AND finish.

I believe he will come back a better player, into a Better team, hopefully with one or two class signings in the Jan window.

as i said earlier in this thread, if (or more likely when) Luis serves his ban, he should be told to take a 2 week holiday and get away from it all.

He's been playing non-stop for 17 months and needs a rest. I think he'll come back like a new man and help us push on for 4th
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:22 pm

The FA have just released the full statement regarding Suarez' 8 game ban - LINK

I must admit the evidence presented is hard to swallow. I only have glanced at it but as much I don't want to believe it it looks as if Suarez has been racist. The best I can see us doing out of this is a reduction of the ban. Even that looks unlikely, but I'm no lawyer so time will tell.

Takes the gloss away from yesterday's result. :(
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Postby Dundalk » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:26 pm

evra: "say it to me again, i'm going to punch you." suarez (again in spanish): "i don't talk to blacks".
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Postby Dundalk » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:30 pm

suarez's account of what happened is very different, and largely corresponds to press coverage: "porque, negro?", in a friendly way etc
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:32 pm

Kuyt's testimony is surprising after the match. He essentially validates the Evra claim? Odd.

His account changes at the hearing which can't look good.
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Postby Dundalk » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:40 pm

Page 97 onwards is the actual verdict

388. Our findings of fact which are directly relevant to the Charge are as follows: (1) In response to Mr Evra's question "Concha de tu hermana, porque me diste in golpe" ("f**king hell, why did you kick me"), Mr Suarez said "Porque tu eres negro" ("Because you are black"). (2) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Habla otra vez asi, te voy a dar una porrada" ("say it to me again, I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "No hablo con los negros" ("I don't speak to blacks"). (3) In response to Mr Evra's comment "Ahora te voy a dar realmente una porrada" ("okay, now I think I'm going to punch you"), Mr Suarez said "Dale, negro, negro, negro" ("okay, blackie, blackie, blackie). 98 (4) When the referee blew his whistle to stop the corner being taken, Mr Suarez used the word "negro" to Mr Evra. (5) After the referee had spoken to the players for a second time, and Mr Evra had said that he did not want Mr Suarez to touch him, Mr Suarez said "Por que, negro?".

We remind ourselves that the test for a breach of Rule E3(1) is an objective test. That means that it is for us to form our own view as to whether Mr Suarez's words or behaviour were abusive or insulting. It is not necessary for the FA to prove that Mr Suarez intended his words or behaviour to be abusive or insulting. We are concerned with whether the words or behaviour were abusive or insulting when used in a football match played in England under the FA Rules. Mr McCormick accepted that we should apply standards that we consider should be applicable to games played under the jurisdiction of the FA. We are not deciding whether the words or behaviour would have been abusive or insulting if used in a match in Uruguay. Nevertheless, we have taken account of the fact that the words were said in Spanish by a Uruguayan player to a French player who speaks Spanish. We have also had regard to the Spanish language expert evidence about how particular uses of "negro" and comments using "negro" would or might be understood in Uruguay. However, ultimately our task is to decide whether in our view the words or behaviour were abusive or insulting in the circumstances in which they took place in this match played in England under the FA Rules. 390. Mr Suarez used the word "negro" in his comments to Mr Evra because Mr Evra's skin colour is black. In our judgment, Mr Suarez's words were insulting when he used the word "negro" in each of the comments to Mr Evra which we have identified in paragraph 388 above. 391. Taking each of these comments in turn, and referring to the English translation only in this paragraph (the full Spanish comment being set out in paragraph 388 above): (1) Mr Suarez used insulting words in telling Mr Evra that he kicked him because he was black. We do not believe this requires any elaboration. The Spanish language experts, whose evidence was accepted by Mr Suarez, said that this comment 99 would be interpreted in Uruguay and other regions of Latin America as racially offensive. (2) Mr Suarez used insulting words in telling Mr Evra that he did not speak to blacks. Again, this requires no elaboration. The Spanish language experts said effectively the same about this comment as they did about the previous comment. (3) Mr Suarez used insulting words in saying to Mr Evra "okay, blackie, blackie, blackie". Here, Mr Suarez was using the word "negro" as part of their argument in which he was trying to wind up Mr Evra. The Spanish language experts said that in the context of the previous usages of "negro" and "negros", this usage would retain its provocative and offensive connotations, even though, in a different context, the phrase "Dale, negro" could easily be inoffensive in Uruguay. (4) Mr Suarez used insulting words when he used the word "negro" when speaking to Mr Evra just before they were spoken to by the referee for the first time. We do not know what Mr Suarez said to which he attached the word "negro". However, given that it was said as part of the continuing confrontation and argument between the two players, and following the three previous comments when the word was used in an insulting way, we find that it was also insulting on this fourth occasion. For a Uruguayan to address a black opponent who understands Spanish as "negro" in a football match in England, in the context in which the word was used, is insulting. (5) Mr Suarez used insulting words when he said to Mr Evra "Why, black?" after the referee had spoken to them for the second time and Mr Evra had said that he did not want Mr Suarez to touch him. Again, given that this was said as part of the continuing confrontation and argument between the two players, it followed the four previous comments using the word “negro” and, furthermore, given that Mr Evra had made clear that he did not want Mr Suarez to touch him, in all the circumstances the use of the word was insulting on this occasion also. 100 392. In total, Mr Suarez used the word "negro" or "negros" seven times in the penalty area. On each occasion, the words were insulting. On each occasion, Mr Suarez breached Rule E3(1). Accordingly, the Charge is proved. 393. Having found the Charge proved in that Mr Suarez's use of the word "negro" or "negros" was insulting, we did not find it necessary to consider whether they were also abusive. 394. We make clear that the Charge was not proved in respect of Mr Suarez pinching Mr Evra's skin. Whilst we considered that action to be reprehensible, we were not persuaded that it amounted to abusive or insulting behaviour within the meaning of those words in Rule E3(1). Accordingly, no issue arose as to whether any breach of Rule E3(1) by pinching included a reference to Mr Evra's ethnic origin, colour or race. In the event, this decision made no difference to our finding that the Charge was proved. It might conceivably have made a difference to penalty had we found a breach of Rule E3(1) by pinching and that this included a reference to Mr Evra's ethnic origin, colour or race. However, that situation did not arise.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:41 pm

it looks like Suarez has made some foolish and nieve comments.

Clearly there's confusion regarding the cultural differences, but the fact remains that Luis has identified Evra for being 'black' and used it in an insulting manner.

If Liverpool know what's best, they'll accept it, move on. I can't see how we're going to appeal, especially with Kuyts observations.
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Postby Greavesie » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:41 pm

few inconsistencies but remember the difference between the verdict and what Evra alleges. Evra is also alleged to haveused Suarez' nationality as a means of discriminating him. I do find Evra's allegations very serious, I'm going to continue reading it so I'll develop this post as I go...

Evra alleged Kuyt said 'stand up you fuking pr!ck' - Kuyt denied this  :D
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Postby Dundalk » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:43 pm

@MirrorFootball: FA have released full findings of Suarez panel. It's 115 pages long, but gist is Evra evidence entirely backs up our infamous back page
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Postby Dundalk » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:51 pm

From what I've read we are not going to come out of this well at all.

- A conversation took place between Evra and Suarez - Evra makes claims of racism - Referee and 4th official go to dressing room where Damien Comolli and Dalglish are, they interview Suarez through Comolli, who translates in Spanish. Ref writes down everything, including asking how to spell certain Spanish words - They interview Kuyt, who spoke to Suarez about the incident in Dutch

Comolli and Kuyt's interpretations match up after verification from independent translators, and they both look as though Suarez said "because you are black" Suarez at the inquest claimed that both passages were "lost in translation" in both languages and Comolli then backtracked about what the referee had written, which the inquiry took to meaning that Suarez's testimony wasn't reliable.
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Postby Dundalk » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:52 pm

How could Kuyts words be lost in translation?

Dosent he speak Dutch as does Suarez?
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Postby The Good Yank » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:53 pm

Well that certainly is alot worse than we were made out to believe.  I find it hard to validate the club appealing.  Accept it and move on.  If he serves the 8 games now he'd be available for the trip to Old Trafford as his first game back.
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Postby dundreamin » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Evera has admitted threatening to punch suarez, FFS that's ok then. All this racist s.*i*e is getting on my nerves.so if a black player calls a white player "A white b.astard" what happens. FOOK all that's what. It's a total fact. This is a witch hunt. FA are bent as UEFA and FIFA. T.wats
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Postby Dundalk » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:01 pm

If its all true and let's face it, it dosent look good, the he got of VERY lightly with a 8 game ban.
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Postby Greavesie » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:02 pm

so many inconsistencies on both parts from what I've read. I dont believe all of the accusations, not by a mile, I do believe use of the word Negro tho. Even Evra shows many inconsistenices towards his understanding of terms - just seems a coming together thats got out of hand to me and its been made into a massive issue.

Suarez' take of the quacking motion and things I find perfectly believable
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