Liverpool FC Forum

by **aCe'** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:38 am

stmichael wrote:
tubby wrote:Besides with Stevie coming back Kenny may well put Stevie out on the right so he doens't have to bench Adam as well.

That's what's I'd do but there isn't a hope in hell of that happening.

Why would you want to put Stevie down the flank when our central midfielders are struggling as it is ?

With Gerrard back we have to get back to playing to our main strengths. That for me means Gerrard behind a lone striker, Downing providing width and balance down the left, and Kuyt/Maxi/Bellamy providing support to the front men from the right. Lucas and one of Spearing/Adam (the weakest spot in the side imo) to control the tempo through the middle and thats our strongest lineup imo..

A case could be made for dropping Gerrard back to a CM position and dropping both Henderson and Adam to get back to a 4-4-2 but we'd be back to the arguments of whether Gerrard is not being utilized well and whether Carroll is affecting our style of play..etc If Carroll can somehow hit top form before Gerrard is fully fit then it might be the only option Kenny has. Moving too many players out of position just to accommodate the lot isnt good management imo.

by **Johnny Boy** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:46 am

We still lack a world class midfielder, someone who can dictate the pace of the game.
Other than Gerrard at is best we still don't have one.

Henderson needs time, Adam never used to run the show at Blackpool, Vaughan did, so why he is expected to here I don't know.

Carroll needs to do better, or at least look fit. I am beginning to worry about him.

by **stmichael** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:19 am

Johnny Boy wrote:We still lack a world class midfielder, someone who can dictate the pace of the game.
Other than Gerrard at is best we still don't have one.

Gerrard dictate the pace of a game? You're having a laugh. He can be a driving force with his lungbusting runs from that area but he's no playmaker in the Alonso mould that's for sure.

I agree that he's still far better than what we've got in there though. I rate Adam but he's at a different level now to what he was at Blackpool. He'll be brilliant one week and then average the next depending on how the team as a whole is performing.

by **Johnny Boy** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:28 am

stmichael wrote:
Johnny Boy wrote:We still lack a world class midfielder, someone who can dictate the pace of the game.
Other than Gerrard at is best we still don't have one.

Gerrard dictate the pace of a game? You're having a laugh. He can be a driving force with his lungbusting runs from that area but he's no playmaker in the Alonso mould that's for sure.

I agree that he's still far better than what we've got in there though. I rate Adam but he's at a different level now to what he was at Blackpool. He'll be brilliant one week and then average the next depending on how the team as a whole is performing.

erm no I am serious!

I am not sure Gerrard can do that anymore, time will tell.
He may have to adapt, slow his game down and become a slightly different type of player.

by **kalos** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:40 am

""His whole demeanour and attitude is too meek for me"

..is exactly right. Remember Stevie at 20, bit cocky, aggressive on the pitch and a mean streak in him when needed.

Hendo needs to toughen up mentally and physically .... Get him on the bench and throw him on for 20-30 mins when we are winning to get his confidence up for starters.

by **redtrader74** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:18 am

aCe' wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:He is playing with very little confidence, which was made clear by the way he took his chance yesterday at Stoke. The problem is does Kenny have the balls to bench both him and Carrol? Because the media, and they do affect decisions, will have a field day, '£55m flops'. this is when prices do matter btw.

At the moment we do not have fit replacements for him, and because of this Henderson has been played more than he should have, the guy is young and ideally would have been introduced bit by bit into the team. The sooner Johnson and more importantly Gerrard are back the easier it will be for Kenny to drop him.

To be honest Im not buying into the whole we dont have fit replacements talk.

Henderson has been playing an advanced midfield role and we have/had quite a few who could play the same position yet we decided to stick with him. Meireles, Aquilani, Cole, Maxi, and even Kuyt, Downing and Bellamy would all have been better options at the positions hes played. Big gamble that hasnt quite paid off yet relying on him (more so than Adam, Carroll and Downing) to step it up from day 1. Makes the Meireles and Aquilani sales all that much worse imo given the timing.

The return of Gerrard for me will definitely mean the end of Henderson down the middle and will hopefully give our central midfield a much needed boost.

That's just it though, we have not had replacements, aquilani and mereiles are two class players we have let go, wrongly IMO, Cole was shipped out and bellamy has only just got here. Downing and Kuyt have been employed in other positions, so with Johnson and Stevie out, henderson has almost had to play, only Maxi has been overlooked.

by **parchpea** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:47 am

Hendo shouldnt be starting games at this point and hes not playing well either. We should be going in with a 4-3-3 with Carroll replacing Henderson and spearheading a front 3 with Downing and Suarez either side of him. Hendo is the exact opposite of Carroll in that he needs a gentle introduction but the big forward needs games. You shoudl always play a system to suit the personnel and we have suffered in the past from rigid formations going against the grain. Surprising really as Dalglish is usually open to trying different tactics but not so much this year so far.

by **Kenny Kan** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:58 am

Well, after the Bolton game I thought Henderson would have had a little more confidence, mind you that was two weeks ago. I don't think the lad does offer too much out wide for us - he does an awful lot of 'checking' and plays the easier ball. Much like Lucas used to when he was in the side, yesterday the Brazilian did attempt more adventurous passes, they didn't always come off but you have to expect that, least he's thinking outside the box a little now.

The only thing noteworthy that Henderson does seem to do well from the outside is, ping in a cross. Unless Carroll's playing more often (not that I'm advocating this at the moment) then there really is no point in persisting with Henderson out wide. However, I'd be willing to take a punt on playing him in the center for the time being alongside Lucas. At the moment and on yesterday's showing Adam was the liability in midfield, he constantly gave the ball away, he constantly fouled the opponents when there was absolutely no need to. And if he wasn't doing those things he was trying the audacious Hollywood balls more often than not and the rest of the time he was huffing and puffing his way round the field.

Kenny should have subbed him and put Henderson inside. I think we would of kept possession better, had the engine and mobility in midfield to thwart Stoke's rugged and industrious energy. The lad may have looked week in the tackle though, but he couldn't of faired worse than Adam. Also, his one on one with the keeper (which he fluffed) showed the energy he had to get into that position in the first place and pick and time his run. We'd probably see more of that if Henderson was in the middle.

Both Adam and Lucas sit deeper, Lucas because he's the primarily the DM. Adam because he thinks he's Xabi Alonso when in reality he was (yesterday) simply.... xabi. I think we'd have had a better balance once Adam was removed from the game, Kenny then could have dropped Kuyt or Bellamy to the right side of midfield, with Carroll and Suarez upfront and Downing on the left.

I'd like to see Kenny give Henderson a go down the middle against Spurs - don't see it happening though.

by **stmichael** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:08 pm

kalos wrote:Hendo needs to toughen up mentally and physically .... Get him on the bench and throw him on for 20-30 mins when we are winning to get his confidence up for starters.

What a brilliant man manager you would make.

Tell me in what way benching the kid now would "improve his confidence"? He's a 20 year old kid with a massive price tag on his head. He's clearly struggling for a bit of confidence so surely as a fan you should get behind the guy and support him like the manager does. He clearly has faith in him so that's good enough for me.

by **Penguins** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:21 pm

So we persist with a player that is detrimental for the team as a whole just so his confidence won't suffer...

by **tubby** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:09 pm

We persisted with Lucas and he turned out alright.

by **Penguins** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:36 pm

Yeah, and look at all the trophies we accumulated while we persisted...

That is what Bolton and Wigan should be doing.
Devloping players while winning nothing...

by **Greavesie** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:47 pm

Penguins wrote:Yeah, and look at all the trophies we accumulated while we persisted...

That is what Bolton and Wigan should be doing.
Devloping players while winning nothing...

and selling them on to bigger clubs...?

I love your view of the smaller clubs, that's quite disrespectful in all honesty mate

I don't mind Jordan, I think he's ok. I'm starting to believe he can offer us more than Charlie Adam - who was the bigger culprit yesterday imo

by **aCe'** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:38 pm

Absolute BS ! If he continues to get criticized for his poor performances then how will that do his confidence any good ? If anything, I can see it affecting his chances of staying with the side past the end of the year. Hes a young player and its always easier coming into a side thats playing good football than it is a side that is still trying to get on its feet. Hes still a young kid and perhaps (to be as optimistic as possible about this) the expectations coupled with his lack of experience are getting to him a little here. There was no reason to throw him in the deep end from the start of the season from Kenny and now a big decision regarding our new signings has to be made. Carroll was rightly dropped for the benefit of the club and now the same has to be done regarding Henderson. Its as simple as that. The whole Lucas comparison thing is a little perplexing to be perfectly honest. He was terrible for a couple of seasons or so and the club had some of its worst displays in the last decade with him being a main culprit, why would we want a repeat of that ? Like Penguin says, we're not a small club looking to develop a player regardless of the results on the pitch and neither should we become one. If a player is not ready we either loan him out or sit him on the bench until he earns his spot.

It has to be said though that 35mill Carroll, 20mill Henderson and 7mill Adam are yet to repay the confidence and belief that Kenny had in them in terms of performances. Our transfers will go a long way in determining how the season pans out and for me (given the sale of Meireles) the Henderson signing will be the main talking point at the end of the season regardless of how things go.

by **tubby** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:54 pm

A week ago people were saying Kenny was reaping the rewards despite paying over the odds for the likes of Henderson, Downing ect... 1 bad result and all of a sudden the shoe is on the other foot?

It's knee jerk reactions like this that make me look back to a year ago how things were. Get a fkn grip Ace.

Liverpool FC Forum

JORDAN HENDERSON - Official Thread

Who is online