Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:23 am

I think your talking rubbish personally.
I dont for one minute think it was to do with appeasing fans.
Agreed it was a gamble based on his recent injury record but he is a top player and one that on his day can change games.
We just imo saw an opportunity to get an exciting player in and took it, the wages were paid because there was no transfer fee involved.
He may prove people wrong this season.
If he moved on now i would agree you called it right re Joe, but while he is still here i am prepared to give him a chance.
I have liked his attitude and the fact that he hasnt appeared to sulk or mouth off to the press when others would have.
What i see is someone that is working hard to try and get back to the level he was at a couple of seasons ago, he might not do it but you seem to want him to fail just because you said he was a bad signing at the time.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:32 am

Why would no one else pay the wages Ben ?

It's the same conversation 12 months later .

He has already failed as a signing - he isn't going to recreate his form from 3 maybe 4 seasons ago now - it's not like he is a 20 year old lad trying to get his form and fitness back .

As for working hard - we could all go there and try our best but doesn't mean it's good enough - he has to show something on the pitch but he has lost his legs , his sharp turn of pace , when he tries his little turns and tricks he looks slow and laboured .

As for not moaning - would you if your sat there earning 5 mil a year not doing much .

by **jacdaniel** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:36 am

The red card and the penalty miss seemed to destroy any confidence he had.
If he does stay, nobody will have any expectations which could help him.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:38 am

jacdaniel wrote:The red card and the penalty miss seemed to destroy any confidence he had.
If he does stay, nobody will have any expectations which could help him.

I would expect performances to justify his 90 grand a week wages .

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:14 am

Benny The Noon wrote:Why would no one else pay the wages Ben ?

It's the same conversation 12 months later .

He has already failed as a signing - he isn't going to recreate his form from 3 maybe 4 seasons ago now - it's not like he is a 20 year old lad trying to get his form and fitness back .

As for working hard - we could all go there and try our best but doesn't mean it's good enough - he has to show something on the pitch but he has lost his legs , his sharp turn of pace , when he tries his little turns and tricks he looks slow and laboured .

As for not moaning - would you if your sat there earning 5 mil a year not doing much .

I dont think he is someoen who is happy to sit there and do feck all just picking up a wage.
Time will tell if he is past it but i think he might surprise people this season, especially as jacdaniel has said that peoples expectations of him appear to be virtually nil now.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:23 am

How much longer does time tell ? It's now been one season with us and a season and half with Chelsea he has peformed at a lower level than before he got injured and he has got progressively worse .

He is 30 soon - twilight years coming up where the body naturally slows down in tersm of professional sport - his body and fitness isn't going to get better - he isn't a 20 year old who is still improving . What he used before to give him that edge has gone because of the injury .

I don't know about you but when I know someone is being paid 90 grand plus a week then my expectations are high and I expect to see results to justify that wage - if they don't arrive then I'm sorry but it's a waste of money .

Unfortunatly I think we are stuck with him - because I don't think anyone would pay his wage demands unless he lowered them dramatically !! Can you see that happen , that would be a sign that he doesn't care about the money .

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:13 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:How much longer does time tell ? It's now been one season with us and a season and half with Chelsea he has peformed at a lower level than before he got injured and he has got progressively worse .

He is 30 soon - twilight years coming up where the body naturally slows down in tersm of professional sport - his body and fitness isn't going to get better - he isn't a 20 year old who is still improving . What he used before to give him that edge has gone because of the injury .

I don't know about you but when I know someone is being paid 90 grand plus a week then my expectations are high and I expect to see results to justify that wage - if they don't arrive then I'm sorry but it's a waste of money .

Unfortunatly I think we are stuck with him - because I don't think anyone would pay his wage demands unless he lowered them dramatically !! Can you see that happen , that would be a sign that he doesn't care about the money .

The last part of your post i agree with apart from the wages.
We are imo stuck with him, i cant see anyone else being able to afford him who would gamble on him.

On the subject of wages i suppose for me it depends on how much the drop was.
If it was 10k maybe he would consider it but if it was 90 dropping to 50 you wouldnt if you were him realistically would you ?

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:49 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:How much longer does time tell ? It's now been one season with us and a season and half with Chelsea he has peformed at a lower level than before he got injured and he has got progressively worse .

He is 30 soon - twilight years coming up where the body naturally slows down in tersm of professional sport - his body and fitness isn't going to get better - he isn't a 20 year old who is still improving . What he used before to give him that edge has gone because of the injury .

I don't know about you but when I know someone is being paid 90 grand plus a week then my expectations are high and I expect to see results to justify that wage - if they don't arrive then I'm sorry but it's a waste of money .

Unfortunatly I think we are stuck with him - because I don't think anyone would pay his wage demands unless he lowered them dramatically !! Can you see that happen , that would be a sign that he doesn't care about the money .

The last part of your post i agree with apart from the wages.
We are imo stuck with him, i cant see anyone else being able to afford him who would gamble on him.

On the subject of wages i suppose for me it depends on how much the drop was.
If it was 10k maybe he would consider it but if it was 90 dropping to 50 you wouldnt if you were him realistically would you ?

All depends how much he loves playing Ben - he has already earnt millions and 50 grand a week is still 2.5 million a year - im sure a club could boost it up with bonuses .

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:04 pm

Dont think you would get any player taking that kind of drop mate.
Especially seeing as though he probably feels he has a point to prove, this isnt some no mark sh!te player like Salif Diao or Jovanovic. Cole is a top player and may feel he can turn it round.
He has only played for 3 clubs in his career so its not like he is someone who looks to move all the time to make money.
The lad always comes across well to me and has just been unlucky.
Yes he might be on a high wage and that might bother alot of fans, but its not his fault he was offered that.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:11 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:Dont think you would get any player taking that kind of drop mate.
Especially seeing as though he probably feels he has a point to prove, this isnt some no mark sh!te player like Salif Diao or Jovanovic. Cole is a top player and may feel he can turn it round.
He has only played for 3 clubs in his career so its not like he is someone who looks to move all the time to make money.
The lad always comes across well to me and has just been unlucky.
Yes he might be on a high wage and that might bother alot of fans, but its not his fault he was offered that.

I was in no way suggesting that any off it is his fault - the blame lies with whoever signed him Hodgson/Purslow/Owners

Im sorry but its 12 months on and nothing has changed - in fact just gone backwards - no place for sentiment - we persisted with Kewell through all his injuries . Time to be ruthless and offer a free transfer IMO and some sort of settlement .

by **Greavesie** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:37 pm

free transfer? Fark that, I'd much rather keep him. If we sell I'd at least want us to get the wages back

by **Dundalk** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:42 pm

The sad thing about all of this is that the talent is there, along with the experience. I still think he can offer a lot to us this season but coming of the bench. I dont think he can command a starting place, maybe last year but not this after the signings we have made.

At the same time if we are to get rid I agree with Greavesie above, we need to get some money in for him

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:52 pm

Dundalk wrote:The sad thing about all of this is that the talent is there, along with the experience. I still think he can offer a lot to us this season but coming of the bench. I dont think he can command a starting place, maybe last year but not this after the signings we have made.

At the same time if we are to get rid I agree with Greavesie above, we need to get some money in for him

I think he will do ok this season me.

by **jacdaniel** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:21 pm

Its not gonna be very beneficial for us as a club if we use wages and big transfer fees as a stick to beat our own players with. Cole has gotten a tougher time off the fans than he deserves because of his wages and I can see a similar situation already starting with Andy Carroll. I hope it doesnt turn out to be the same for Downing and Hendo. Yes we paid big money but they're still only human and will take time to adapt to the City and the club.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:45 pm

Greavesie wrote:free transfer? Fark that, I'd much rather keep him. If we sell I'd at least want us to get the wages back

Getting rid on a free transfer would save us 15 million over the next coming years

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