Liverpool FC Forum

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:20 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Lets not forget we blocked a shot of theirs on the line , they could of easily had another penalty as well as missing one so cant really say we should of won it easily if we had taken our chances , they had plenty , more than us on target . A draw would of been the fair result .

I disagree but I understand why you would rather look at it that way.
I prefer to look positively on a very good, attacking performance against the rampant spurs who tw@tted the mighty Inter. They are five places and six points above us but only scraped a win in the last few minutes due to a mistake from our gobsh'ite left back. They will feel they got out of jail and were nearly slammed by a supposed "lesser" team who were actually nowhere near the pushover some thought we would be for the so called "title contenders". The game I watched was two teams pretty evenly matched and it could have gone either way. We had our chances to put it to bed but didnt take them. That for me is encouraging and bodes well for the future.
Thats the way I look at things because I prefer not to moan and highlight the negatives. "Brilliant" may be going overboard, but it was a fine performance in a fine match and we were unlucky to come away with nothing.

by **metalhead** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:22 pm

Daws mate, just chill, you don't like what Benny is posting then just ignore, let him be sad, whatever really, I don't give a f*ck about people being negative and sad anymore, its their problem not mine, I get on with it and you should do the same.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:33 pm

Thommo I have said the same thing - we were unlucky to come away with nothing as believe we deserved the draw . But I won't apologise we being unhappy when i look at the table and see the points we have got and how many defeats . I have lost count this season the amour of times we have spotted something positive and it bodes well only to then to go and revert to type and get beaten again by teams like Stoke and Blackpool etc - it's not good enough, nowhere near good enough . What exactly is there to be happy with currently ? We have been in the relegation zone , been beaten by our most bitter rivals for the first time in 4 years , we haven't got higher than 9th all season and we are just coming into December - it's currently our worst season for nearly 20 years - so what exactly is there to be happy about , you can focus on a little positive from a game we lost or you can look at the overall picture and realise we are a mid table team and playing like one . First time I have witnessed such a thing for 30 years except one season under Souness .

by **metalhead** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:13 pm

We are in a similar situation as last season Benny, the only way to improve is to invest in the team.

by **dawson99** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:22 pm

im obviously letting things get to me, or seeing things that arent there lol

i'll stay away to stop all arguaments from all sides...
But Roy is getting there, and he'll continue to improve the team and we'll rock it... top 4 by xmas i guaruntee

now i shall leave for yoga training

by **mramo** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:00 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Well done Dawson - before accusing others of stuff have a good look in the mirror . Both myself and MH were having a pretty calm decent discussion of the merits of the different formations and how we should best play against certain teams and also 7 Kewell came in and added to discussion and it was all going fine and pleasant until you arrived with your little flame starting quote. No one is slating the manager . Grow up and realise you do nothing but add fuel to the fire on many occasions .The season is more than just one game that we actually lost nor is it just the last couple of games - so far it's 15 games with 6 defeats and only 19 points so you will have to excuse me if I'm not currently jumping for joy nor going on about a great game which we lost . I don't care about if and buts - its results that matter and overall report so far is nowhere near good enough .

Yes, Benny I agree with your comments on this particular post. 6 losses in 15 games is just not good enough! For the majority to think about for a second but of those 6 games; 4 against Stoke, Blackpool, Everton, and Tottenham should have been matches we should have put away, but we didnt! Potentially we lost between 4-12 points. minimum of 4 points would have taken us to 6th place and above. 12 points would have taken us to the top right now!

In this current climate, with everything that has happened to us this year, would you rather watch an amazing game of football that we end up losing periodically, or watching a game where we pick up 3 solid points, no matter how well or poor we play? For the vast majority, we would choose the latter. Like yourself Benny, I too hardly think yesterday was an afternoon to enjoy the after-match reviews when the sole objective was to win the game!

How we go from winning 4 games on the trot to a 'D/L/W/L' is questionable to possible tactics being deployed, and the overall Training regime being used in Melwood. The players seem uninterested and lacking fatigue. Mistakes are being made regularly. Roy needs to ensure responsibility and also spend less time with the media to avoid justifying himself every single week. He talks far too much and "talking" to the media doesnt win games.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:06 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Thommo I have said the same thing - we were unlucky to come away with nothing as believe we deserved the draw . But I won't apologise we being unhappy when i look at the table and see the points we have got and how many defeats . I have lost count this season the amour of times we have spotted something positive and it bodes well only to then to go and revert to type and get beaten again by teams like Stoke and Blackpool etc - it's not good enough, nowhere near good enough . What exactly is there to be happy with currently ? We have been in the relegation zone , been beaten by our most bitter rivals for the first time in 4 years , we haven't got higher than 9th all season and we are just coming into December - it's currently our worst season for nearly 20 years - so what exactly is there to be happy about , you can focus on a little positive from a game we lost or you can look at the overall picture and realise we are a mid table team and playing like one . First time I have witnessed such a thing for 30 years except one season under Souness .

With respect you havent said the same thing at all. You have merely made out that we have said the same thing, which is not the same. You choose to focus on the negative and I dont. I am not for one minute saying I am happy with the current situation, but that doesnt mean I have to moan constantly that its "not good enough". All the things you say may be true but it doesnt mean that everyone has to wail and whinge about where we should be. You say: "we are a mid table team and playing like one". I dont like it but I accept that because that is what we were last season and would have been lower if the season would have finished in August instead of May.
You want a quick fix for something that will take time. I prefer to see that we are improving overall and if we were still in the relegation zone I might be even tempted to join in your misery. However I see no point in constantly highlighting the negatives when we gain no benefit in doing so.
As far as the Souness comparison goes, I seem to remember Souness taking over a strong team which challenged for the league and eventually came second to Arsenal?
A bit different to the one Roy inherited methinks...?

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:09 pm

Oooh sorry, did I say "brilliant".

This place makes me laugh. We all used to moan about the way Rafa set us up, always negative. Roy plays 442 away from home and the team where playing "brilliant" football at times and yet some are still moaning.

As I said before (which benny didnt pick up on as he was too concerned about my brilliant comment) the improvement from game to game is really good. We are going in the right direction which is probably the first time this has happened in the last 2 years.

Well done Roy, well done players. If this carries on and with a couple of new players (left back especially) we will be challenging for a champions league place this year.

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:12 pm

We still have a lot to play for but im getting frustrated everytime i see the gap to 4th increasing. i think its 7 points now? and i think it could be 10 before we play again? We need to have a really good xmas period if we wanna get 4th.

Last year at Xmas, i believe we were 4th and still lost it so we cant afford to drop back too far.

by **mramo** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:30 pm

jacdaniel wrote:We still have a lot to play for but im getting frustrated everytime i see the gap to 4th increasing. i think its 7 points now? and i think it could be 10 before we play again? We need to have a really good xmas period if we wanna get 4th.

Last year at Xmas, i believe we were 4th and still lost it so we cant afford to drop back too far.

If things dont improve he's going to make Souness record look good. Where did we finish with him again? 8th in 1994? To be fair Evans did come in half way through the season to steer the ship for four months. Hodgson has already had 4 months and we sit 11th.

But yes we cant afford to drop back too far. Lets see how January fares when potential new signings are bought in. Already looking forward to 2011!

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:48 pm

We are losing too many games, its a bad habit to have and appears to have carried on from last season.
We played well yesterday and deserved a point but you dont always get what you deserve in football.
Credit to Roy for being more adventurous but the players need to develop a bit more resiliance and start grinding out points.
Similaly to last season too many games that could go either way dont go in our favour.

by **worcester_red** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:48 pm

but the last few games, with the exception of Stoke, we have been improving, surely that has to be a positive??

Don't let your hate of Hodgson cloud your views people. personally I'm far from convinced about Roy but for the first time in years I'm actually enjoying watching us play. teh match against Spurs and the Chavs was very good attacking football and thoroughly entertaining.

by **parchpea** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:52 pm

Unlikely we will see any improvement until we can reshape the squad as the lads we have have proven they cant do the job week in week out under both Benitez and now Hodgson. Systems are one thing, and both have tried things, but generally the outcome is similair so clearly its the players that need to be changed. To add to our problem we have suffered injury, fitness concerns, to key and several other players since the season began and this has just made the job even harder with what is a paper thin squad in terms of quality. We can only start to move forward once we have oppertunity to purchase new players and clear out under performers and so this year is going to largely be a write off until all that gets moving. I wish it was easy as bringing another manager in and suddenly we will see a dramatic change in fortune but I somehow doubt it with this side so the reality is we will have to keep taking a few knocks until we can start doing some business in the transfer market.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:24 pm

parchpea wrote:Unlikely we will see any improvement until we can reshape the squad as the lads we have have proven they cant do the job week in week out under both Benitez and now Hodgson. Systems are one thing, and both have tried things, but generally the outcome is similair so clearly its the players that need to be changed. To add to our problem we have suffered injury, fitness concerns, to key and several other players since the season began and this has just made the job even harder with what is a paper thin squad in terms of quality. We can only start to move forward once we have oppertunity to purchase new players and clear out under performers and so this year is going to largely be a write off until all that gets moving. I wish it was easy as bringing another manager in and suddenly we will see a dramatic change in fortune but I somehow doubt it with this side so the reality is we will have to keep taking a few knocks until we can start doing some business in the transfer market.

Agreed, up to a point. We can undoubtedly improve our league position if we learn the lessons from our performances against the the likes of Spurs, Chelsea or Blackburn. But, if we're serious about wanting to challenge for the top honours again then I strongly believe we need to be more critical about the quality and makeup of the squad. Most players are capable of putting in good performances here or there that suggests they might be worth persisting with (Babelians take note), but it's all about the bigger picture. Is that player doing enough, often enough, given what is required of a team that aspires to challenge for the title? I think there's a tendency to look at the good a player brings to the side without characterising it in terms of the required standard. If we continue to accept a certain standard of player then we will continue to fall short of the standards demanded by Liverpool FC.

by **parchpea** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:35 pm

To do well in football and particularly the league you need a strong 15 that can do a good job week in week out and another 5 behind that who are ready to step up to the plate but frankly you would be lucky to find half dozen in our first 11 that actually fit the bill. Your top players do it every week and there in lies the difference with what we have out there, lads that flatter to deceive, look good one minute and average to poor the next. A manager can only do so much and whether you care for our current or last one or neither the truth is neither can a real tune from most of our boys. We have Reina maybe Carra, Gerrard and maybe Torres who you can rely on to do something most weeks but after that its very hit and miss and its not enough, not by a long chalk.

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