Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:47 pm

this "too lightweight" argument doesn't wash with me. funny how it always gets thrown at foreigners who come over here. people on here were saying it about aquilani even though the bloke has quality in abundance. i don't hear people calling modric "too lightweight" now because they've actually given him time to adapt before writing him off.

by **aCe'** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:18 pm

Its certainly a different case for Pacheco than it is for the other 4 names mentioned..

1- Wilshere : The guy plays a little deeper and despite being a small guy he's always shown a more aggressive side to his game.. He's a much better passer of the ball than Pacheco ever will be and could potentially play as part of a midfield trio dictating the game from deeper..

2- Fabregas : a very different sort of player... Pacheco will never become a fabregas sort of player because he simply lacks the drive and vision of Fabregas.. I know Fabregas isnt a big guy or anything but much like Torres he's got the strength to mix it with the bigger guys in the league.. A top class player and if anything i'd compare him to Shelvey rather than Pacheco..

3- Nasri : Has always had the fast feet to get him past opponents.. Pacheco simply lacks the skills to dribble past opponents and even his technique (which again is the only good thing i can think of when it comes to pacheco) isnt as good as Nasris was a few years ago..

4- Modric : His development at Tottenham over the past couple of years has been interesting... He has a great eye for the pass and is brilliant at dictating play.. Again a very different sort of player imo but the fact that he managed to adapt to the physicality of the league perhaps provides hope for the likes of Pacheco..

The main problem I have with Pacheco having watched him at u19 level and some of his reserve/first team games is that he seems to drift out of games waay too often especially when the side arent playing that well.. The closest we have to Pacheco i the side today is Maxi imo, except Pacheco lags behind the Argentine in the work rate and physicality departments.. He's something of a flair player and if played alongside skilled players who are willing to play slick attacking football then we might see him producing some good displays.. However, i still stand by what i said and i really dont think Pacheco will ever make it in the English league or the Italian league or at any of the top Spanish sides... No offense to Sabre but the current Sociedad side might be just about his level..

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:40 pm

Pacheco has skill in abundance his close control is exceptional ,but like Nasri needs to be allowed to develop and evolve because right now its impetuous and raw ....but what I have seen at reserve level bodes well for the future he is an inventive little player with a very good football brain ....maybe he needs games for us all to see the level he is capable of
lets not forget why the kids talents were secured by Liverpool in the first place

Pacheco

by **tubby** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:36 pm

WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED

Roy’s Hodgson’s Managerial Record

Below is a full record of Roy Hodgson’s managerial career at club level, based on league results only.

What’s noticeable is that it took him 12 years to manage a club for more than 26 league games; mostly due to smaller Scandinavian leagues, and also due to only lasting 21 games at Bristol City.

In England he has managed for 181 games, winning just 57 – at 31.5%. Liverpool should be aiming for 50-60%, with 60% necessary for the top four and 66%+ for the title.

In Italy, he managed for 79 league games, winning 34, at 43%.

In England and Italy, at clubs who were big and/or rich (therefore excluding Bristol City, Udinese and Fulham), his record is well below average. Winning just 51 out of 131 games with these clubs gives him a worse win% than Graeme Souness had at Liverpool; yes, that bad.

Even including all his successes in small Nordic leagues, Hodgson’s entire career win rate of 43.3% suggests a manager who just isn’t ambitious enough in his approach. He’ll make smaller teams hard to beat, but he won’t make bigger teams become winners. Hodgson was the right man for Fulham, but based on his record and performance to date, the wrong one for Liverpool.

Key: Red shade = England an green shade = Italy.

Statistics provided by Graeme Riley

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/11/roys-hodgsons-managerial-record/

Gonne nick this off another forum but it's very important in context to the above.

"We sacked a manager who had a record of 56%.... Over 1 in 2 and brought in one who wins less 1 in 3"

by **Reg** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:46 pm

Wow, folks really are working 24 hours a day to get Roy out eh? Never seen a Liverpool manager come under this kind of pressure before. Well, I guess the new owner did say he likes statistics....

by **7_Kewell** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:57 pm

wow, it's been all kicking off (again) on here. However, one thing that really makes me sad is seeing fans claiming they're better than other liverpool fans because they either go to games, come from Liverpool, know people who have been hurt in one of the tragedies ..etc etc.

The reason we're all here is because we're Liverpool fans, and no one has a right to claim they're beter or more of a fan than someone else. I've been a fan since the mid 80s, been going to matches since the early 90s and have been lucky enough to meet bob paisley, emlyn hughes and STAND on the terraces of the Kop. Does that make me better than another fan? does it f**k.

by **tubby** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:59 pm

7_Kewell wrote:However, one thing that really makes me sad is seeing fans claiming they're better than other liverpool fans because they either go to games, come from Liverpool, know people who have been hurt in one of the tragedies ..etc etc.

The reason we're all here is because we're Liverpool fans, and no one has a right to claim they're beter or more of a fan than someone else. I've been a fan since the mid 80s, been going to matches since the early 90s and have been lucky enough to meet bob paisley, emlyn hughes and STAND on the terraces of the Kop. Does that make me better than another fan? does it f**k.

Good point 7Kewell but I don't think anyone has explicitly come out and said that. Some are just reading into things too much and in the heat of the moment drawing such conclusions.

by **7_Kewell** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 pm

bavlondon wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:However, one thing that really makes me sad is seeing fans claiming they're better than other liverpool fans because they either go to games, come from Liverpool, know people who have been hurt in one of the tragedies ..etc etc.

The reason we're all here is because we're Liverpool fans, and no one has a right to claim they're beter or more of a fan than someone else. I've been a fan since the mid 80s, been going to matches since the early 90s and have been lucky enough to meet bob paisley, emlyn hughes and STAND on the terraces of the Kop. Does that make me better than another fan? does it f**k.

Good point 7Kewell but I don't think anyone has explicitly come out and said that. Some are just reading into things too much and in the heat of the moment drawing such conclusions.

maybe not said it outright, but its been implied LOADS and it isn't on. We're all fans and we all want the club to do well. Even the wind up merchants are here because, deep down, they're closet Liverpool fans

by **Thommo's perm** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:17 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
bigmick wrote:No sarcasm or anything like it involved in this post, I've no wish whatsoever to get involved in the arguments on either "respect" or on "Roy Hodgson" and I'm not going to.

Mick I pop in and then I pop out my visits are fleeting to say the least ...I held my hands up earlier to warranting the warnings ...maybe you could have the honesty to admit that when you draft your replies that there is also a certain amount of baiting involved ...I mean if we are to be truly honest and you don't view me looking on your latest contribution ...as another veiled attempt to muddy the waters even further
I can be as foolish as anyone on this forum and I have been precisely that of late .... but my retorts are retaliation and I am honest enough to acknowledge they do little to contribute to the fluency of this forum .....perhaps the constant digs about us not being true fans that you included in your posts can be considered as having the same debilitating results where the forum is concerned .....

Its good to talk
Well done RBG for admitting being an ar'sehole sometimes (not all the time). I know you are a true fan, but its hard to accept true fans behaving so badly even if they are being honest and showing their passion and emotions. I believe we are starting to mend fences and build bridges.
Keep it goin there lar

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:34 pm

Woah ....... I admitted to being childish but @rsehole... well that would be the totally wrong choice of word if your ideas over possible bridge building and fence mending were to be taken seriously ....... wouldn't you agree ?

by **Masch79** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:34 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:However, one thing that really makes me sad is seeing fans claiming they're better than other liverpool fans because they either go to games, come from Liverpool, know people who have been hurt in one of the tragedies ..etc etc.

The reason we're all here is because we're Liverpool fans, and no one has a right to claim they're beter or more of a fan than someone else. I've been a fan since the mid 80s, been going to matches since the early 90s and have been lucky enough to meet bob paisley, emlyn hughes and STAND on the terraces of the Kop. Does that make me better than another fan? does it f**k.

Good point 7Kewell but I don't think anyone has explicitly come out and said that. Some are just reading into things too much and in the heat of the moment drawing such conclusions.

maybe not said it outright, but its been implied LOADS and it isn't on. We're all fans and we all want the club to do well. Even the wind up merchants are here because, deep down, they're closet Liverpool fans

I'm not from Liverpool mate and I only get to a few games a year. I do think for the people who live in the city, talk LFC with their friends & colleagues all day, go regularly to matches and have suffered the hurt of knowing people involved in terrible events of the past, the club must play a larger part in their lives than a lot of us from elsewhere. So for people to repeatedly criticise them for letting their emotions spill out is not on either imo. What is football without emotion afterall :buttrock

by **Thommo's perm** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:50 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Woah ....... I admitted to being childish but @rsehole... well that would be the totally wrong choice of word if your ideas over possible bridge building and fence mending were to be taken seriously ....... wouldn't you agree ?

Children do behave like @rseholes dont they?
Anyway, no offence meant.
Ive got a hammer and some nails as we speak...
:nod

by **Reg** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:58 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Woah ....... I admitted to being childish but @rsehole... well that would be the totally wrong choice of word if your ideas over possible bridge building and fence mending were to be taken seriously ....... wouldn't you agree ?

Give an inch and he takes a mile! :laugh:

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:00 am

Thommo's perm wrote:Ive got a hammer and some nails as we speak...

So its crucifixion then

by **Thommo's perm** » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:29 am

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:Ive got a hammer and some nails as we speak...

So its crucifixion then

Dont be cross with me
:eyebrow

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