Liverpool FC Forum

by **rocky29** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:51 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:Considering JH defended Roy regarding the unfair criticism he had received and called him "the best teacher" I suggest hes here for a while.
I take your point about his age but its far from clear what will happen

John Henry said his ideal manager is Arsene Wenger and considering him and Roy are like chalk and cheese with their tactics, I wouldnt really believe it when john Henry says Roys his best teacher, considering he brought Comolli in without Roy knowing anything about.

Someone is advising the new owners from outside the club IMO.

This is terrible news!
More lying yanks

John Henry out!

ye it must be someone who enjoys eating snails.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:58 pm

boodiddy1 wrote:
Dundalk wrote:As regards to were we should be expected to finish this season, for me, its in the top 4. We have a group of players that are capable of it and are experienced enough to do it.

How do you rate that we should be top four. When you consider what citeh and spurs have spent? Also, dont think for one mnute city arent going to spend more in January.

A team coming 7th, gets a new manager and owners and his expected to get 4th place at first attempt is unrealistic in this league.

Patience. I do believe with a small re-build n the summer and continuity in the club that we can achieve success next season, but, its asking a bit much this time

Course it's unrealistic. It's fair enough to hope we'll get into the top four, but to demand it is being silly. This is particularly the case given Man City have spent about 100 million quid since the end of last season (when they also finished above us).

No, whether or not Roy will be here next season is obviously in doubt, but we can't demand fourth and expect anybody to take us seriously. I should think if he cant improve on 7th then he can have no complaints, but if he got us up to fifth and was blown out he would have every right to feel harshly treated.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:03 pm

rocky29 wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:Considering JH defended Roy regarding the unfair criticism he had received and called him "the best teacher" I suggest hes here for a while.
I take your point about his age but its far from clear what will happen

John Henry said his ideal manager is Arsene Wenger and considering him and Roy are like chalk and cheese with their tactics, I wouldnt really believe it when john Henry says Roys his best teacher, considering he brought Comolli in without Roy knowing anything about.

Someone is advising the new owners from outside the club IMO.

This is terrible news!
More lying yanks

John Henry out!

ye it must be someone who enjoys eating snails.

Mange l'escargot?
Sacre bleu!!
Est ce qui?

by **tubby** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:04 pm

If it isn't the objective this season then it will surely be next season once JH has spent some money. Thing is when that time comes we need a manager who is capable to managing a top 4 team, someone who has been there and has experience at that level.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:09 pm

bigmick wrote:
boodiddy1 wrote:
Dundalk wrote:As regards to were we should be expected to finish this season, for me, its in the top 4. We have a group of players that are capable of it and are experienced enough to do it.

How do you rate that we should be top four. When you consider what citeh and spurs have spent? Also, dont think for one mnute city arent going to spend more in January.

A team coming 7th, gets a new manager and owners and his expected to get 4th place at first attempt is unrealistic in this league.

Patience. I do believe with a small re-build n the summer and continuity in the club that we can achieve success next season, but, its asking a bit much this time

Course it's unrealistic. It's fair enough to hope we'll get into the top four, but to demand it is being silly. This is particularly the case given Man City have spent about 100 million quid since the end of last season (when they also finished above us).

No, whether or not Roy will be here next season is obviously in doubt, but we can't demand fourth and expect anybody to take us seriously. I should think if he cant improve on 7th then he can have no complaints, but if he got us up to fifth and was blown out he would have every right to feel harshly treated.

The excuse of the spending of Man city Spurs apparently wasn't valid last season and the difference between 5th and 7th means nothing at the end of the day . 4th is a must to get us back into the elite of Europe and somewhere our club should be . If manager can't achieve that then we look for someone who can .

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:33 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:The excuse of the spending of Man city Spurs apparently wasn't valid last season and the difference between 5th and 7th means nothing at the end of the day . 4th is a must to get us back into the elite of Europe and somewhere our club should be . If manager can't achieve that then we look for someone who can .

Nobody mentioned Spurs, and I wouldn't agree that the difference between fifth and seventh means nothing. That's like saying the difference between fourth and second is nothing, simply not true.

Look, my guess is that you'll all get your wish come the end of the season and Roy will be replaced. Similar in many ways to when Ranieri was replaced at Chelsea after having done pretty well, sometimes a new owner has new ideas and ambitions and sometimes that's the way they want to go. I've no real problem with any of that.

Lets not pretend though that if Roy can't get us up to fourth and past Man City AND Spurs AND Aston Villa that he has abjectly failed and deserves to be bombed out. Circumstances may well dictate that he is bombed out, but if he manages to improve on the efforts of his predecessor, it's a decent feat.

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:15 am

Ciggy wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:Considering JH defended Roy regarding the unfair criticism he had received and called him "the best teacher" I suggest hes here for a while.
I take your point about his age but its far from clear what will happen

John Henry said his ideal manager is Arsene Wenger and considering him and Roy are like chalk and cheese with their tactics, I wouldnt really believe it when john Henry says Roys his best teacher, considering he brought Comolli in without Roy knowing anything about.

Someone is advising the new owners from outside the club IMO.

He also said that our poor start to the season isnt down to Roy, he didnt build this team.

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:21 am

BBC Link.

Edit again ! I should learn to bloody read !

by **maguskwt** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:29 am

Kharhaz wrote:BBC Link.

Edit again ! I should learn to bloody read !

don't like these kinda ideas to be perfectly honest...

It's too commercial... makes the clubs look like a circus team...

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:32 am

maguskwt wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:BBC Link.

Edit again ! I should learn to bloody read !

don't like these kinda ideas to be perfectly honest...

It's too commercial... makes the clubs look like a circus team...

No I dont either, if we go down that route then the game as we know it is all but finished. Our clubs wont feel like ours anymore.

The link was to show where I see John Henry's comment about this current squad.

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:58 am

bigmick wrote:
boodiddy1 wrote:
Dundalk wrote:As regards to were we should be expected to finish this season, for me, its in the top 4. We have a group of players that are capable of it and are experienced enough to do it.

How do you rate that we should be top four. When you consider what citeh and spurs have spent? Also, dont think for one mnute city arent going to spend more in January.

A team coming 7th, gets a new manager and owners and his expected to get 4th place at first attempt is unrealistic in this league.

Patience. I do believe with a small re-build n the summer and continuity in the club that we can achieve success next season, but, its asking a bit much this time

Course it's unrealistic. It's fair enough to hope we'll get into the top four, but to demand it is being silly. This is particularly the case given Man City have spent about 100 million quid since the end of last season (when they also finished above us).

No, whether or not Roy will be here next season is obviously in doubt, but we can't demand fourth and expect anybody to take us seriously. I should think if he cant improve on 7th then he can have no complaints, but if he got us up to fifth and was blown out he would have every right to feel harshly treated.

why is it when you compare Benitez and Hodgson you only refer to the last season he was in charge as a pointer as to whether Hodgson will have failed or not.

how about he matches or betters his first season in charge, surely a fairer way to judge someone rather than choosing there lowest point.

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:39 am

J*o*n*D*o*e wrote:why is it when you compare Benitez and Hodgson you only refer to the last season he was in charge as a pointer as to whether Hodgson will have failed or not.

how about he matches or betters his first season in charge, surely a fairer way to judge someone rather than choosing there lowest point.

It's only sensible to compare the most recent effort, particularly when you consider it's largely with a very similar group of players. There seems little point in comparing how Roy goes with how a team performed seven seasons ago.

Equally, whereas Rafa took over a team which was already in the top four, Roy has taken over a team which finished seventh. By definition the latters task is much harder, particularly when you consider that due to the previous owners/Chelsea and Man City's financial power over a number of seasons, the gap between us and the bigger players is wider.

Rafa won the Champions League in his first season, Roy obviously can't do that because in Rafa'a last season we didn't actually qualify for it.

No, I think the only sensible comparison is to go with the most recent one. If you take over any business, they don't task you with matching profits from seven years ago in your first year. By and large they ask you for YOY growth, and that's the only sensible thing to ask of Roy.

by **dawson99** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:48 am

bigmick wrote:
J*o*n*D*o*e wrote:why is it when you compare Benitez and Hodgson you only refer to the last season he was in charge as a pointer as to whether Hodgson will have failed or not.

how about he matches or betters his first season in charge, surely a fairer way to judge someone rather than choosing there lowest point.

It's only sensible to compare the most recent effort, particularly when you consider it's largely with a very similar group of players. There seems little point in comparing how Roy goes with how a team performed seven seasons ago.

Equally, whereas Rafa took over a team which was already in the top four, Roy has taken over a team which finished seventh. By definition the latters task is much harder, particularly when you consider that due to the previous owners/Chelsea and Man City's financial power over a number of seasons, the gap between us and the bigger players is wider.

Rafa won the Champions League in his first season, Roy obviously can't do that because in Rafa'a last season we didn't actually qualify for it.

No, I think the only sensible comparison is to go with the most recent one. If you take over any business, they don't task you with matching profits from seven years ago in your first year. By and large they ask you for YOY growth, and that's the only sensible thing to ask of Roy.

priceless

Beating Chelsea was one thng, but we need to see how we do aganist the 'smaller' teams over the next few weeks, and Villa and Spurs are massive games. that'll show the roy progression

by **jacdaniel** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:08 am

Liverpool will quickly become a mediocre club IF we use the logic that...
Rafa finished 7th so Roy must finish 6th.
insua wasnt good enough but Konchesky is slightly better and so on.

You always have to take the bigger picture into account. Was Rafa better than Ged because we won the CL? Or was Ged better because his last season in the PL was slightly better than Rafa's first?

At the end of the day, Rafa was better because we were more successful over a 5 or 6 year period. That has to be the target for Roy. If he can be more successful than Rafa over a period of time, then he'll be better.

but finishing 6th won't make him better. (although it might buy him more time on his quest)

by **tubby** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:20 am

Yes it is largely the same group of players from last year. And also largely the same group of players who almost won the league the season before. The fact they did suggests that more than anything they just had a bad season which is exactly what happened. The way you are talking is as if every season for the last 5 years was a 7th placed finish. You are talking as if this would be the first time ever we would finish 4th so that makes the task all the more monumental.

Well I guess it would be a first for the current manager so maybe from his perspective yes it's the hardest task hes ever faced. The fact that they haven't kept pace with the teams around them in terms of recruiting quality players means they will have slipped behind but there is still no excuse for what we have seen so far.

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