Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:05 pm

bavlondon wrote:4th absolutely has to be the minimum for him to keep his job. He simply cannot afford any more slip ups. I get the feeling though 4th is a task too far for him. Time will tell.

Bav mate, he wont lose his job for not getting 4th place, he'll be replaced because he is a short term arrangement prior to bringing in the next manager to take us forward. I dont think theres any need for debate, its pretty clear.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:34 pm

Reg wrote:
bavlondon wrote:4th absolutely has to be the minimum for him to keep his job. He simply cannot afford any more slip ups. I get the feeling though 4th is a task too far for him. Time will tell.

Bav mate, he wont lose his job for not getting 4th place, he'll be replaced because he is a short term arrangement prior to bringing in the next manager to take us forward. I dont think theres any need for debate, its pretty clear.

Could you explain why its clear please?
Cheers

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:39 pm

It's an interesting one as I think there's every chance Roy WILL take us "forward", it might just be a question og how far. I thought he'd probably be able to do better than 7th before he arrived, and it's now looking once again like there's a chance he will. By any definition, at that point he will have improved our league position and therefore taken us forward.

That said, for reasons stated previously many times I think we will change managers at the end of the season in order to give the fan base a chance to reunite.

by **tubby** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:48 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:
Reg wrote:
bavlondon wrote:4th absolutely has to be the minimum for him to keep his job. He simply cannot afford any more slip ups. I get the feeling though 4th is a task too far for him. Time will tell.

Bav mate, he wont lose his job for not getting 4th place, he'll be replaced because he is a short term arrangement prior to bringing in the next manager to take us forward. I dont think theres any need for debate, its pretty clear.

Could you explain why its clear please?
Cheers

Id say a combination of the bad start he had combined to some of his comments in interviews has shown he is really out of his depth here. That's not to say he may well be able to equal last years finish but when the opportunity presents itself he will probably be replaced. JH wants us to be pushing for the league in 5 years. I think he will want a slightly younger more dynamic manager with some continental experience.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:53 pm

bigmick wrote:It's an interesting one as I think there's every chance Roy WILL take us "forward", it might just be a question og how far. I thought he'd probably be able to do better than 7th before he arrived, and it's now looking once again like there's a chance he will. By any definition, at that point he will have improved our league position and therefore taken us forward.

That said, for reasons stated previously many times I think we will change managers at the end of the season in order to give the fan base a chance to reunite.

Or maybe the reason for changing the manager will have nothing to do with fan base as opposed to actual ability to make us a success - you seem to be under the false understanding that fans will still want him out if we are successful - that couldn't be further from the truth . The fans want success end of the day - that's the simple truth of the matter , if Hodgson brings success then the fans will be behind him - if he doesn't then the fans will want him replace - simple , nice and black and White .

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:04 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's an interesting one as I think there's every chance Roy WILL take us "forward", it might just be a question og how far. I thought he'd probably be able to do better than 7th before he arrived, and it's now looking once again like there's a chance he will. By any definition, at that point he will have improved our league position and therefore taken us forward.

That said, for reasons stated previously many times I think we will change managers at the end of the season in order to give the fan base a chance to reunite.

Or maybe the reason for changing the manager will have nothing to do with fan base as opposed to actual ability to make us a success - you seem to be under the false understanding that fans will still want him out if we are successful - that couldn't be further from the truth . The fans want success end of the day - that's the simple truth of the matter , if Hodgson brings success then the fans will be behind him - if he doesn't then the fans will want him replace - simple , nice and black and White .

Obviously, but it depends of course what you mean by "success". We didn't win a trophy for four seasons under the previous manager and finished 7th in his last season, yet many fans still wanted to keep him. I think this proves that "success" is subjective, one fans "success" is another mans disaster.

That's my point really. If you want a manager who is capable of taking us forward then we might well already have one. Whether or not his a "success" though is another matter entirely.

by **tubby** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:14 pm

bigmick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's an interesting one as I think there's every chance Roy WILL take us "forward", it might just be a question og how far. I thought he'd probably be able to do better than 7th before he arrived, and it's now looking once again like there's a chance he will. By any definition, at that point he will have improved our league position and therefore taken us forward.

That said, for reasons stated previously many times I think we will change managers at the end of the season in order to give the fan base a chance to reunite.

Or maybe the reason for changing the manager will have nothing to do with fan base as opposed to actual ability to make us a success - you seem to be under the false understanding that fans will still want him out if we are successful - that couldn't be further from the truth . The fans want success end of the day - that's the simple truth of the matter , if Hodgson brings success then the fans will be behind him - if he doesn't then the fans will want him replace - simple , nice and black and White .

Obviously, but it depends of course what you mean by "success". We didn't win a trophy for four seasons under the previous manager and finished 7th in his last season, yet many fans still wanted to keep him. I think this proves that "success" is subjective, one fans "success" is another mans disaster.

That's my point really. If you want a manager who is capable of taking us forward then we might well already have one. Whether or not his a "success" though is another matter entirely.

But the previous manager won a European cup and finished 2nd and ended a season with record points. Could you see Roy doing either of those? Rafa had 1 bad season, as Kenny said recently I don't think people should let that distort the good times he brought. In contrast every season is pretty much a 'bad season' for Roy. Finished 12th? 2 away games won last season?

I think you seem to be focusing on that last season too much to the extent where you can use it to back up your opinions. You speak as if it was 4 seasons of 6th followed by 7th with nothing good in between. The fact is that even if Roy manages 7th this season it will be his best. His best finish is the former managers worst.

This is Liverpool football club and it's always existed to win things. If Roy can do that fine, but if he can't he will be shipped out end of. btw I think you will find even the likes of Fergus and Wenger had their bad seasons finishing outside the top 4. Fortunately for them their superiors didn't have such short memories.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:30 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:
Reg wrote:
bavlondon wrote:4th absolutely has to be the minimum for him to keep his job. He simply cannot afford any more slip ups. I get the feeling though 4th is a task too far for him. Time will tell.

Bav mate, he wont lose his job for not getting 4th place, he'll be replaced because he is a short term arrangement prior to bringing in the next manager to take us forward. I dont think theres any need for debate, its pretty clear.

Could you explain why its clear please?
Cheers

Id say a combination of the bad start he had combined to some of his comments in interviews has shown he is really out of his depth here. That's not to say he may well be able to equal last years finish but when the opportunity presents itself he will probably be replaced. JH wants us to be pushing for the league in 5 years. I think he will want a slightly younger more dynamic manager with some continental experience.

Considering JH defended Roy regarding the unfair criticism he had received and called him "the best teacher" I suggest hes here for a while.
I take your point about his age but its far from clear what will happen

by **tubby** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:41 pm

I don't think JH had any choice other than to back him. NESV had just come in, the last thing they would want to do is wield the axe. Plus no one notable was available at the time. Plus 2 managers going in a short space of a time might have had a negative impact on players. At least we are starting to show some signs of cohesion now. If we can maintain this form then there is a chance we could at least match last seasons finish.

by **Dundalk** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:47 pm

As regards to were we should be expected to finish this season, for me, its in the top 4. We have a group of players that are capable of it and are experienced enough to do it. With some improvements in January we should have a strong second half to the season. The league this season seems to be a lot more even and a lot of teams will drop points.

If we get to the turn of the year and we are in the top 6 then im confident we will finish in the top 4 and we can finally stop playing Thursday f*cking night football

by **Ciggy** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:49 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:Considering JH defended Roy regarding the unfair criticism he had received and called him "the best teacher" I suggest hes here for a while.
I take your point about his age but its far from clear what will happen

John Henry said his ideal manager is Arsene Wenger and considering him and Roy are like chalk and cheese with their tactics, I wouldnt really believe it when john Henry says Roys his best teacher, considering he brought Comolli in without Roy knowing anything about.

Someone is advising the new owners from outside the club IMO.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:09 pm

Success - CL spot is a successful season , Europa Win or FA Cup win would prob give him a season but no CL spot and no trophy and I'm sorry it would definatly mean time to go - and just to prempt the 7th place last season etc from Mick - Rafa IMO had earnt in previous seasons the chance to have a chance to turn it around .

Getting back into CL is a massive priority

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:13 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Success - CL spot is a successful season , Europa Win or FA Cup win would prob give him a season but no CL spot and no trophy and I'm sorry it would definatly mean time to go - and just to prempt the 7th place last season etc from Mick - Rafa IMO had earnt in previous seasons the chance to have a chance to turn it around .

Getting back into CL is a massive priority

I'd agree with that and add the fact that, with new owners in place, there will need to be some tangible success from the current manager to give them some sense that he matches their ambition. The windfall of CL money is a tangible success given our wanderings in the Europa wilderness. Missing out on that will probably cost him his job, even if we do win a cup.

by **boodiddy1** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:47 pm

Dundalk wrote:As regards to were we should be expected to finish this season, for me, its in the top 4. We have a group of players that are capable of it and are experienced enough to do it.

How do you rate that we should be top four. When you consider what citeh and spurs have spent? Also, dont think for one mnute city arent going to spend more in January.

A team coming 7th, gets a new manager and owners and his expected to get 4th place at first attempt is unrealistic in this league.

Patience. I do believe with a small re-build n the summer and continuity in the club that we can achieve success next season, but, its asking a bit much this time

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:48 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:Considering JH defended Roy regarding the unfair criticism he had received and called him "the best teacher" I suggest hes here for a while.
I take your point about his age but its far from clear what will happen

John Henry said his ideal manager is Arsene Wenger and considering him and Roy are like chalk and cheese with their tactics, I wouldnt really believe it when john Henry says Roys his best teacher, considering he brought Comolli in without Roy knowing anything about.

Someone is advising the new owners from outside the club IMO.

This is terrible news!
More lying yanks
:angry:

John Henry out!

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