Liverpool FC Forum

by **zarababe** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:32 am

Ciggy wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Hello wall ............

Its excuses ciggy.

At the end of the day if it isnt answer my question regarding our current squad that Rafa left behind.

Is it good enough ?

Did Rafa have time and money to shape it as he wanted ?

(disclaimer) i am not saying he had unlimted funds. Just that he has had plenty of money to buy and sell players.
To build a squad how he wants it.

He for me in the last 18 months failed miserably.

The squad is better than what he inherited and better than Roys ever had to work with its not excuses.

If people want to keep harping on about he wasted millions and its there in black & white for everyone to see they just have their blinkers on.

He spent 3.5 million a season and has had to sell to buy since them b@stards arrived.

Yes.. even Torres was bought through a bank loan :no

Isn't it interesting... we are on the verge of the biggest judgement about our club and there is a discussion on here 'still' about what Benitez did.

Given the frustrating antics of the current 'custodians' .. can people honestly not imagine what it must be like to work with these- when even someone like Broughton (upright and proper - massive reputation) has had to come out 'guns blazing' in 'public' (very unlike the Liverpool way - probably not 'his' way either) because of the lies and deceit by these 'custodians'..

I fully accept Rafa had to go.. because he's own sanity had been tested by these, frustrating his efforts and making him sell to buy etc, is that how we want our great club to operate.. well that's how it has been.

Roy Hodgson was appointed by these 'custodians', again a mesure of their class and 'ambition' for the club.. so I don't blame Roy, what he thought was the chance of a life-time and lets face it, any owner with an ounce of 'ambition' would not have appointed him, so lets not delude our selves, that the boardroom debacles and financial constraints did not affect Benitez, :lookaround

that for every £25m + player that Man Utd and Chelsea bought and strenghthened their hands, we got 'what we got' for what we could afford to 'raise' ..

That's the current market for club's like us, but with the financial clout unlike ours... £80m Ronaldo, £30m Alonso, £25m Masch, £40m Villa, £25m D Silva, £30m Tevez......

Wake-up !

by **dawson99** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:34 am

aCe' wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
dawson99 wrote:But Cigs, cant you see, if he brought well he wouldnt have had to sell to buy 76 players!!!!

he had some good buys and he had some terrible buys, them 76 players you keep mentioning where everything from kids of 14 years of age up to players in their 30's.

he didnt actually sell 76 players as 30 odd of them are still at the club now.

And Ben even feckin Wigan spend more than 3.5 million a season thats a disgrace for a club as big as ours even Stoke and Sunderland have outspent us over the past 3 seasons.

where the fck does this 3.5mill nonsense come from ?!

Everyone has there own figures, anywhere from 3.5 million per season to just under 20 million per season

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:38 am

zarababe wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Hello wall ............

Its excuses ciggy.

At the end of the day if it isnt answer my question regarding our current squad that Rafa left behind.

Is it good enough ?

Did Rafa have time and money to shape it as he wanted ?

(disclaimer) i am not saying he had unlimted funds. Just that he has had plenty of money to buy and sell players.
To build a squad how he wants it.

He for me in the last 18 months failed miserably.

The squad is better than what he inherited and better than Roys ever had to work with its not excuses.

If people want to keep harping on about he wasted millions and its there in black & white for everyone to see they just have their blinkers on.

He spent 3.5 million a season and has had to sell to buy since them b@stards arrived.

Yes.. even Torres was bought through a bank loan

Isn't it interesting... we are on the verge of the biggest judgement about our club and there is a discussion on here 'still' about what Benitez did.

Given the frustrating antics of the current 'custodians' .. can people honestly not imagine what it must be like to work with these- when even someone like Broughton (upright and proper - massive reputation) has had to come out 'guns blazing' in 'public' (very unlike the Liverpool way - probably not 'his' way either) because of the lies and deceit by these 'custodians'..

I fully accept Rafa had to go.. because he's own sanity had been tested by these, frustrating his efforts and making him sell to buy etc, is that how we want our great club to operate.. well that's how it has been.

Roy Hodgson was appointed by these 'custodians', again a mesure of their class and 'ambition' for the club.. so I don't blame Roy, what he thought was the chance of a life-time and lets face it, any owner with an ounce of 'ambition' would not have appointed him, so lets not delude our selves, that the boardroom debacles and financial constraints did not affect Benitez, that for every £25m + player that Man Utd and Chelsea bought and strenghthened their hands, we got 'what we got' for what we could afford to 'raise' ..

That's the current market for club's like us, but with the financial clout unlike ours... £80m Ronaldo, £30m Alonso, £25m Masch, £40m Villa, £25m D Silva, £30m Tevez......

Wake-up !

So do we not reply to any other threads until things are sorted with the owners

I am getting fecked off with people still harping on about our last manager.
Hero worship when he doesnt deserve it.
It grates me big time.

I dont care that people dont think Roy is good enough, i can accept that (although i will give him time).
But Rafa was just as bad last season and is a major factor why we are still struggling this season.

Just to explain (not an excuse) Roy should be doing better without a doubt.
But the squad and players that we have are still largely down to the previous managers poor decision making.

by **zarababe** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:43 am

Ben Patrick wrote:
zarababe wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Hello wall ............

Its excuses ciggy.

At the end of the day if it isnt answer my question regarding our current squad that Rafa left behind.

Is it good enough ?

Did Rafa have time and money to shape it as he wanted ?

(disclaimer) i am not saying he had unlimted funds. Just that he has had plenty of money to buy and sell players.
To build a squad how he wants it.

He for me in the last 18 months failed miserably.

The squad is better than what he inherited and better than Roys ever had to work with its not excuses.

If people want to keep harping on about he wasted millions and its there in black & white for everyone to see they just have their blinkers on.

He spent 3.5 million a season and has had to sell to buy since them b@stards arrived.

Yes.. even Torres was bought through a bank loan

Isn't it interesting... we are on the verge of the biggest judgement about our club and there is a discussion on here 'still' about what Benitez did.

Given the frustrating antics of the current 'custodians' .. can people honestly not imagine what it must be like to work with these- when even someone like Broughton (upright and proper - massive reputation) has had to come out 'guns blazing' in 'public' (very unlike the Liverpool way - probably not 'his' way either) because of the lies and deceit by these 'custodians'..

I fully accept Rafa had to go.. because he's own sanity had been tested by these, frustrating his efforts and making him sell to buy etc, is that how we want our great club to operate.. well that's how it has been.

Roy Hodgson was appointed by these 'custodians', again a mesure of their class and 'ambition' for the club.. so I don't blame Roy, what he thought was the chance of a life-time and lets face it, any owner with an ounce of 'ambition' would not have appointed him, so lets not delude our selves, that the boardroom debacles and financial constraints did not affect Benitez, that for every £25m + player that Man Utd and Chelsea bought and strenghthened their hands, we got 'what we got' for what we could afford to 'raise' ..

That's the current market for club's like us, but with the financial clout unlike ours... £80m Ronaldo, £30m Alonso, £25m Masch, £40m Villa, £25m D Silva, £30m Tevez......

Wake-up !

So do we not reply to any other threads until things are sorted with the owners

I am getting fecked off with people still harping on about our last manager.
Hero worship when he doesnt deserve it.
It grates me big time.

I dont care that people dont think Roy is good enough, i can accept that (although i will give him time).
But Rafa was just as bad last season and is a major factor why we are still struggling this season.

Just to explain (not an excuse) Roy should be doing better without a doubt.
But the squad and players that we have are still largely down to the previous managers poor decision making.

Yes but most of us believed that this is at least a top four team no

so what's gone wrong?

And tell me which bit of 'you get what ya pay for' are you disagreeing with?

by **dawson99** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:48 am

76 players!!!! 221 million spent!!!!

Rafa is gone, move on!!!!

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:50 am

I still believe that this group of players should be in and around fourth.
And the buck stops with Roy at this moment and time.

When did i say you dont get what you pay for ?

What i did say is regardless of net spend Rafa has had money.
He has also been able to change the squad totally.

Is the squad good enough ?

by **only me** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:53 am

Ciggy wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Hello wall ............

Its excuses ciggy.

At the end of the day if it isnt answer my question regarding our current squad that Rafa left behind.

Is it good enough ?

Did Rafa have time and money to shape it as he wanted ?

(disclaimer) i am not saying he had unlimted funds. Just that he has had plenty of money to buy and sell players.
To build a squad how he wants it.

He for me in the last 18 months failed miserably.

The squad is better than what he inherited and better than Roys ever had to work with its not excuses.

If people want to keep harping on about he wasted millions and its there in black & white for everyone to see they just have their blinkers on.

He spent 3.5 million a season and has had to sell to buy since them b@stards arrived.

We should re-sign Rafa so we can sack him one more time!

One of the worst scouts and money manager one could find. The Farce of Keane and Aqua were the toppin on the cake ,let alone Lucas and Babel - Releasing the likes of Hyppia and Crouch and Bellami and Even Sissoko. The man had eye for Talent no doubt. The man is a cup type manager ,give him one game to prepare for he is almost a match to no one ,give him a year to plan and a squad to build he is a total failure.

Bring him back so we can kick him out again...I would fire him just for his post game interviews.

by **zarababe** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:59 am

dawson99 wrote:76 players!!!! 221 million spent!!!!

Rafa is gone, move on!!!!

ummm .. £140m approx 4 players Real Madrid = £28m per player average 2009/10 season

That is called ambition

this is called '- wiating for the 'giro':

£221m ,76 players.. Liverpool football club= 2.9 m per player average. 2005-2010 :lookaround

- we've moved on .. have you?

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:01 pm

I can't beleive even his disciples are still banging on about Benitez in the transfer market. His last two major signings cost 40 million quid and were Robbie Keane and Alberto Aquilani.

:laugh:

Next.

by **dawson99** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:01 pm

Zara, you do understand that with football its about quality, not quantity? You have made my point, he was spending on average 2.9m per player, youd never get decent stuff with that

cheers for the help

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:03 pm

I have asked both Zara and ciggy a question.

Has Rafa created/shaped a good squad ?

Do me a favour and dont say he has brought in this or that and net spend is this or that.

Just a simple answer.

by **Thommo's perm** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:07 pm

dawson99 wrote:76 players!!!! 221 million spent!!!!

Rafa is gone, move on!!!!

If only mate, if only
What weve got is people using Benitez as a yardstick and making him out to be the victim in order to show that Roy is inept. They even stoop so low as to use a much respected figure like Shanklys grandaughter to undermine he manager, even though we learn she was criticizing twit and tw@t and not Roy.
The argument for Benitezes spending doesnt stand up. Clearly anyone with a revolving door policy like he had can only show that the man couldnt make his troubled mind up about what he wanted. He had the money, spent it, recouped and spent again leading to the end product of what we are left with now.
Obviously Roy has made some transfer decisions himself but these have been dictated by the current situation i.e. the owners and what he has inherited.
What is most amusing is ciggys insistance that Benitez was hamstrung by the owners, yet she makes no such excuse for Roy.
Interesting...

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:09 pm

The squad.

We've got a good goalkeeper, no question.

We haven't got a really top class centre half. The best we had during Rafa's six years was one who was left for him. The second best ditto, and we moved him on to Germany.

We have a good right back IMHO.

We didn't have a good left back when Rafa left.

We did have two good central midfielders when Rafa left. One of them was here when he arrived, and the other couldn't wait to feck off. The back up was/is rubbish.

We did have a decent left midfielder, but he had fallen out with the manager and the club and had to be flogged off.

We have a serviceable right midfielder who was actually bought as a striker but failed there. No back up to speak off.

We have one top class striker and extremely questionable back up.

In terms of youngsters coming through, we are extremely thin on the ground.

A good return after six years? :laugh:

Lets be serious here.

by **zarababe** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:09 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:I still believe that this group of players should be in and around fourth.
And the buck stops with Roy at this moment and time.

When did i say you dont get what you pay for ?

What i did say is regardless of net spend Rafa has had money.
He has also been able to change the squad totally.

Is the squad good enough ?

Iv'e replied to Dawson's ranting, on the money Rafa had to spend.

Lets not forget the £221m being quoted equates to spend over the tenure of his reign - right? Not over the course of one or even two seasons, when the likes of the Mancs and Chelsea were spending vasts sums on one player alone etc etc

So over the period of his tenure.. just what did you expect him to buy?

Look at Roy - his first 2 signings were 'freebies'... good or bad - time will tell but I was chuffed when we got cole and the other guy looked ok too.. so can we really criticise a manager for bringing in players on such a budget, when at first we all have hope and then things don't always work out?

Our ambition for our club is to have players 'like'.. Torres (bought on a bank loan), Villa, Iniesta, Xabi etc etc .. but i'm afraid our pockets are just not that deep..

Is it acceptable that over 6 years, the net spend per player according to Dawson's figures equates to £3m, in a market where top clas players are being bought and sold for £25m+..EACH ?

You get what ya are ABLE to pay for !

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:12 pm

I ask the question again, is the squad I've written down a good return after six seasons? Dispute my read on players by all means, tell me that you actually think we had top players in all positions if you like, even tell me that after six seasons the team had constantly improved and the one which Rafa had finished up with was his best squad if you want, I'm all ears.

Liverpool FC Forum

So after a few months with roy, was sacking rafa - The right thing to do?

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