Liverpool FC Forum

by **rocky29** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:32 am

rafa is a joke he couldnt manage accrington stanley never mind liverpool.

by **maguskwt** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:41 am

bigmick wrote:We need less navel gazing from the fan base and a bit more big picture. Fat chance.

And this coming from the author of the feckin long boring thread on rotation...

by **maguskwt** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:42 am

rocky29 wrote:rafa is a joke he couldnt manage accrington stanley never mind liverpool.

And you sound like you're 12...

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:13 am

bavlondon wrote:If you take out a top manager you need to replace him like for like.

A bit like when Shanks left the post as manager and we replaced him with... the team physio :oops:

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:17 am

laza wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:He had problems a couple of seasons back and they didnt get rid then did they ?

Ben while Im very reluctant to get into pro anti point scoring rubbish that seems to be priority on this forum for last few seasons .

However werent owners trying to get rid of Rafa as per Klinsmann affair.
It would also be very difficult to remove Rafa when you considering we launched our first major challenge for the league and beat both MANU and Chavs the previous season

Last season wasnt good enough I fully agree though this attitude that Rafa had to go, no ifs no buts just seems bizarre to me considering the previous season.

Though I also fully agree its irrevelent question now.

We have new manager who wasnt my choice but he is Liverpool manager and while not above critique deserves far more respect then he is getting.
Though campaign has started off as disaster, talk of getting rid of him after a few league games seems just as bizarre considering our off field situation

The point is they did not get rid of him previously.
He made that too hard for them by coming close 2 seasons ago.

He was moved on after last seasons shocking results and performances, the owners may have been looking for an excuse...well they probably were.
But make no mistake Rafa gave them a very easy decision for me.

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:51 am

What we need is a manager who consistently gets the players to perform to a level which is above the sum of their parts. All this "was it right to do this" is all b0ll0cks. "Was it right to get rid of Rafa", "was it right to give the job to Roy" and all that is irrelevent right now.

The question is, "can Roy do the fecking job" I would have thought. At the moment those who said he was never up to it can pat themselves on the back and get the "we told you so" speeches ready, while those of us who said he was up to it have the old humble pie baking in the oven. It can change of course, but that's the way it is right now.

To be totally honest though I couldn't give a feck, I just want the team to win. We didn't win under Benitez, and we aren't winning under Hodgson.

by **jacdaniel** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:52 am

It doesnt matter now, Rafa is gone and we can't change that. People can discuss his 6 years all they want, but with a little more investment...he would of won the league and had us constantly challenging with chelsea and the Mancs.

Its no surprise to me and many others that the real decline began after the champions league final in 2007. Thats when the yanks came into power, undermined the manager by talking to Klinsmann and failing to provide much needed investment.

Rafa punched far above his weight for another year or two. (even challenging for the title). But eventually it got too stressful. Eventually we had decent players leaving the club and freebies to replace them.

The transfer market was more about making profit to pay off loans than us signing good players to improve the squad. Rafa is winner, he complained about this a lot and the board were waiting for the chance to sack him.

After a difficult season last year, were we suffered a huge injury crisis, we eventually finished 7th and we sacked him.

Lots of fans thought we would be back challenging if we could just get a new manager in to motivate the players. Now we're 18th in the league and close to a quarter of the way into the season.

Hopefully all our fans will now realise that the decline is not down to the manager. it is the YANKS. Although our previous manager was ensuring that it would be a slower decline.

by **lakes10** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:53 am

lrts look at it this way, the only mistake Roy has done in my eyes is not to get a new striker, but he did bring Joe here, the money needed to buy a striker did not come in time to buy one, and even if it did would they have given it to him?

Roy is working with a team that it was very clear last year could not cut it in the prem, we had 4 players tht the team was based on and this year Torres looks nothing like heshould and in truth i think we also need to look at our keeper, he has made a hell of a lot of mistakes so far this year and has been lucky not to have cost us more goals.

our back four need a boot up the butt, they look alseep most of the time.

SG AND JC well for so long they have been there to save us, Carra is feeling hisage and can not do it all on his own, Steve, well give him the ball and he can still do it, but too often this year there been no one up there to put the ball into, Torres being so off the pace.

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:00 am

lakes10 wrote:lrts look at it this way, the only mistake Roy has done in my eyes is not to get a new striker, but he did bring Joe here, the money needed to buy a striker did not come in time to buy one, and even if it did would they have given it to him?

Roy is working with a team that it was very clear last year could not cut it in the prem, we had 4 players tht the team was based on and this year Torres looks nothing like heshould and in truth i think we also need to look at our keeper, he has made a hell of a lot of mistakes so far this year and has been lucky not to have cost us more goals.

our back four need a boot up the butt, they look alseep most of the time.

SG AND JC well for so long they have been there to save us, Carra is feeling hisage and can not do it all on his own, Steve, well give him the ball and he can still do it, but too often this year there been no one up there to put the ball into, Torres being so off the pace.

It's all excuses Lakes, and I'm fecking sick of hearing them. We got them for four seasons during Rafa's time, punctuated by one league title challenge out of six. We were told it was down to this that and the other and it was excuses, I don't want the same excuses now with Hodgson, it's b0ll0cks.

The squad I think we would all agree is good enough for at least top six, and probably good enough to challenge for the top four. Admittedly Man City have shifted the goalposts as far as Champions League qualification is concerned, but we should still be able to make a fist of it at least.

Yes there is a chance we still will, but so far we are making too many stupid and ill thought out moves which are costing us points. Why oh why do we always seem to get a manager who comes in with an ingrained methodology and wants to impose it upon the club, before realising far too late that it is THEY who have to adapt, and not the rest of the football world?

Benitez came in and thought he could play a reserve team against bottom of the table opposition. It took him three years to work out that it wasn't the way to go. Hodgson comes ina nd thinks it's OK to sit back and let the other team have the ball when you're playing at Home against Blackburn.

FFS people like Gerrard, Kuyt and Johnson aren't suited to sitting, so you fecking well adapt your system to suit the available players, not the other way around.

Posters laughed at Mourinho when he would stick someone up top in the last couple of minutes and lump it in. I never did, because it showed an appreciation of a different football culture. FFS the manager needs to adapt, and just for once the fans need to stop making excuses.

by **tubby** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:01 am

Lee J wrote:
bavlondon wrote:If you take out a top manager you need to replace him like for like.

A bit like when Shanks left the post as manager and we replaced him with... the team physio

No actually it's nothing like that.

@Lakes his only mistake is not bringing in a striker?

What about exiling Agger who was probably our most promising CB? Or buy a box to box central midfielder Meireles and playing out wide right? Or what about completely trying to change the way the team plays when we have players more suited to pressing. Why do you think Torres isn't even scoring.

The biggest mistake of all has to be Poulsen though. Sorry but he isn't cut out for the job.

by **tubby** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:04 am

bigmick wrote:FFS people like Gerrard, Kuyt and Johnson aren't suited to sitting, so you fecking well adapt your system to suit the available players, not the other way around.

Agree with this bit 100%. That's why we look clueless on the pitch right now, they don't know how to sit back. We don't have the personel suited to sitting back. It's a shame because the biggest casualty of all is Torres. We all know how lethal he can be when pressing and getting in spaces and he has only scored 1 this season.

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:04 am

bavlondon wrote:The biggest mistake of all has to be Poulsen though. Sorry but he isn't cut out for the job.

Bav we needed a holding midfielder as Masherano was offski and Lucas isn't good enough. The problem with the way Poulsen is playing (and I don't know who's fault it is) is that he is trying the headless chicken routine when he is paceless. He ought to be attached to the centre backs, not running around putting tackles in.

Whether or not he is going to be ableto do it remains to be seen for me, but we did need a holding midfielder.

by **bigmick** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:08 am

bavlondon wrote:It's a shame because the biggest casualty of all is Torres.

Don't agree with that either mate. Torres for me right now is taking the p!ss out of the club (I know that won't make me popular but I think he is). He isn't doing a tap either with or without the ball, not runnign the channels, not closing down, not challenging for it unless it's on a plate.

I genuinely think he's got the sulk on because we haven't signed any names, and he's bang out of order for me. Yes I know you'll all say "but he was promised this and that", but he's on 100 thousand quid a week plus, and is IMHo one of the best strikers in the World. Right now he is a shadow of his former self.

Needs a rocket up his erse for me, but that's probably what he wants so he can engineer a move. I'd go to Wolves in January and buy Kevin Doyle to play alongside him. GYBS mentioned him first (as he'll no doubt tell us), but I think he'd play well WITH Torres, and there's not many you can say that about.

by **jacdaniel** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:11 am

In fairness to Poulsen... Cole (LCM) and Meirles (RCM) don't seem to have many defensive duties. This makes it harder for Poulsen. But i dont think he is that great anyways.

by **lakes10** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:13 am

see mick theres my problem with our team, i dont think we canmake a fist of it, as a team they have not grown. other teams have, did we sit back, no i dont think we did, i think we was pushed back at home. this say a lot about the skill in our team, i dont think it had anything to do with how the team was set out.
look and some of the other results some of the teams have had. blackpool were cold when they got down by the big clubs and most felt that this was never going to happen again and i think they are right. man u did not win their game this weekend, there are no easy games now in the prem, even more so if you dont have a team that can play as a team.

ok Rafa did get it wrong but he was never a prem manager, it was very clear something big had gone wrong with his team last year when we got knocked out the CL. his mistakes were all put on show in the pream, by the end of last season we had no team in my eyes, you wu7ld be hard picked to look at our club and say yes there a real team there, our young kids dont cut it, most of them them are from overseas, the problem is not we dont have a first team that can make a fist of it, its the fact that when one of them is out we dont have no one that can fill their boots.

a whole load of changes need to happen at our club and said to say that that will cost money, but to start with ship all the none british young players back home and lets start to build a club again.

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So after a few months with roy, was sacking rafa - The right thing to do?

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