Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:34 pm

Saw a similar thread on another forum so thought it would be a good idea to discuss the same on here.

Ok he underachieved last season but look at what he gave us. A European cup and he got us closer to the league than anyone else since we last won it. On top of that the fans adored him.

Already it's becoming glaringly apparant that Roy isn't good enough for the job. Others have mentioned that it probably wont be a relegation scrap but our aim now has to surely be finishing at least as good as we done last season? (never thought id be saying that)

But eventually, whether that is next month, in January or in the summer, we will have to find a new manager. We may well go into that search with the same owners as present, in which case I have to ask could we attract anyone estabished, proven on a continental level? I doubt it.

People talk about the need to give Roy more time, need to let his ideas settle in, need to let him sort out the squad. Blah blah blah... he had top 5/6 squad at best and Roy has added to that yet we find ourselves in the bottom 3, a position we never occupied once under Rafa's reign.

All in all the Rafa decision was a knee jerk reaction, fuelled by a poor finish. Not to mention the owners hated him because he stood up to them and called them out in public. It was probably made to look worse given we finished 2nd the year before, but im sure there are 1 or 2 here who would take him back over Roy in a hearbeat.

My question to the Rafa anti's is do you still think it was the right decision to sack him?

by **metalhead** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:39 pm

Yes it was the right thing to do.

It was the right thing for the players, the club and for himself

by **burjennio** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:41 pm

Rafa had to go becasue he became too distracted by off the field issues and his team started to under perform because of it. In the summer the Americans we still a long way from leaving the club so for me his leaving was the only option. However if and when the club is purchased by someone more suitable I believe he could hypothetically become a great manager for Liverpool again, if his mind was fully focused on his team and he had harmony within the boardroom but I doubt there is much of a chance of that happening so in reply to the original poster, Yes Rafa should have been moved on, but unfortunately its becoming clear that the man replaced him was not the correct choice.

by **THEBARON** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:46 pm

Bav

I was never vehemently anti Rafa but come the end of the season I thought a parting of the ways was the best thing. Rafa had given us some great nights and made us a force in Europe again - but unfortunately things went backwards last year. His 4th place promise came back to haunt him and his uncompromising attitude (rather than being a yes man/diplomat) counted against him with the owners. The standard and quality of football was regressing and his relationship with the senior players had allegedly become unworkable.
It was probably the correct call.
Having made that decision the next decision of his successor was even more crucial and if results are anything to go by then they got it wrong.

I see our logic in arguing that if Rafa was still here - where would we be?
If the rumours in the summer were true then Torres and Gerrard may have left if Rafa had stayed.

by **RedSi35** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:47 pm

It's a difficult question that cannot be Answered this early. But in my opinion rafa, as good as he was had taken Liverpool as far as he could. Much in the same way that houllier had taken us as far as he could.

His clashes with the management and closeness to the fans didn't help. The ongoing quest for the league title has been a blight on every manager since we last won it in 89/90.

We have been close a few times with many different squads but that little bit of luck has not always been with us when we needed it. I liked rafa, maybe if he had Been given the time that the likes of fergeson has had then eventually it would pay off. Unfortunately these days everybody demands success on an instant.

We can point out rafas misatakes ( alonso sale was a biggie ) but he bought a warmth to the club that even despite some poor results you always thought good times could be had.

Roy is early doors in but he is struggling, I don't think it's all his fault. He may be setting fantastic tactics but the team seems incapable of doing anything at the moment. However like rafa he has little time to Impress........ Weeks maybe and without the support and willing of the squad he will be destined to fail

by **LFC2007** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:52 pm

Whether Roy succeeds or not, the decision to change manager was the correct one in my view. This season, Carragher said of the end of Rafa's reign that it was "time for a change" (before anyone thinks I've plucked the quote from an obscure internet article, no, he said it in a TV interview after the Arsenal game, I saw it myself) and it's hard to believe others key players were not of the same opinion. Understandably so; we were in decline for a whole season, finished 7th and failed to turn more corners than I can ever remember.

What happened thereafter with the choice of a new manager is a judgment independent of the decision to part company with Rafa. What you might say though is that, to date, Roy's appointment appears to challenge the idea that almost anyone could have come in and done a better job than Rafa. That isn't to say that Kenny, Pellegrini, MON, Deschamps or others couldn't have done a better job. Chances are they could and would.

by **THEBARON** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:56 pm

Maybe Hodgson's achievements have been overstated?

He kept Fulham up by winning the last game of the season and Fulham's away form last year was wretched.

by **Kukilon** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:01 pm

Did I like Rafa. Sure I did but it was also the correct call to let him go and I think all parties agrees upon that under those circumstances. The players, management and us didn't deserve him.

by **Fowler_E7** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:02 pm

It was right to sack Rafa, his time was up but Roy Hodgson was an average replacement, i thought at the time and i still think that now, even now i never imagined things would be as bad as they are now.

by **Penguins** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:03 pm

I totally disagree that the choice of a new manager is a judgment independent of the decision to part company with Rafa.

The main underlying reason in the 1st place why Rafa had to leave was that Rafa could not deliver anything with no money and everyone and his dog knew that we were skint and that there would be 0 to spend in the summer or in the forseeable future.

Which means not a single world class manager would come close to us or even touch us with a barge pole.
And Rafa was appointed before the vermin came so we always knew he was fighting in our corner and only Rafa revealing the vermins scheming to the supporters helped saved his job.
Please add 1 and 1 together and it was obvious for anyone not stuck with their heads in the sand that the owners wanted a less troblesome manager that "should just focus on traing and coaching the team" and nothing else. Kenny sure wasn't the one and neither was Pellegrini. But Roy was.

It was either Roy, Mark Hughes, Sam Allerdyce or someone of that fold that was coming.

by **Thommo's perm** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:05 pm

Rafa was an idol. With feet of clay. His single mindedness and ruthless ambition lifted us up to be a top force in Europe again. However this was his downfall as his stubborness and arrogance alienated and isolated him. His obsession with "facts" and spin eventually became more important than the football. He lost the plot and the players and eventually most of the supporters. It is no doubt that at the height of his powers he was a force to be reckoned with. But when he stopped thinking rationally he was one of the most infuriating people on the planet.
If his positive contribution was so big, then so was his negative contribution. He is without doubt a major reason for what we are witnessing now. Im not saying hes entirely to blame but we have all kidded ourselves abut how bad things are and how much we have declined. If last season had gone on for another month or two who knows where we would have ended up?
He was right to go but the juries still out on Roy, but I have a feeling the judgement will be given soon

by **Pablo_Escobar** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:05 pm

IMHO. Rafa staying would give more pressure on the owners so that biggest problem could end earlier (I do hope it'll end).
I'd still prefer Rafa instead of Roy right now (and at the start of the season).

by **parchpea** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:07 pm

You can only live in the moment and it was right the club and Benitez parted. We had a bad season and he had the Inter job to consider and so we both moved on. You then have to bring another in and by the sounds a few turned us down, Deschamps for one, so we gave Hodgson a shot. Hes a good manager but today it feels like we made a mistake with him and its not working out for sure. Its all a risk, us appointing someone, them taking it, you just sit back and watch the cards fall as they may. Whatever path we take now you just get the feeling we will run into problems until we can find stability off the park, take a breath, and move on from all this.

by **Big Niall** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:09 pm

after all those years in charge and all that money spent, we finished 7th. Gigantic mistakes in the transfer market meant he had to go.

I said it was a huge mistake to give him a new contract (for the first time in his reign we were top of the table - lucky for him) and he cost us a fortune to get rid of.

Correct decision to get rid of him - no doubt.

by **only me** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:11 pm

With no Doubt - i have one word for you Aquillani. Criminal signing of an injured player ,"hoping" we would survive the month till and if he recovers has got be one the worst mistakes a manager has and can do. With that arrogent move i completly lost faith in him.....Of course there is a lot more...but for now it would suffice.

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So after a few months with roy, was sacking rafa - The right thing to do?

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