Liverpool FC Forum

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:29 am

how the hell did we end up so far behind other clubs?

By constantly not investing in the team but expecting the manager to push for the title.
When you have a sell to buy policy, there is pressure for every transfer to be a success. If 1 or 2 don't workout... then the squad gets weaker quickly.

Everything he says about Rafa is true. He constantly got slated for his failures and other people were credited for his achievements. i think one day people will realise that Rafa as a lot better than the media wanted us to believe.

As for Roy, its true that his age and the age of players he has signed point to a short term fix rather than long term and thats a concern in itself. But Roy should be given time to try and make things work.

unfortunately, i don't think his tactics suit our personel or a club expecting to win many games. Hopefully we'll try to be a bit more positive against Blackpool.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:47 am

fivecups wrote:Still got a Rafa bias that takes away from his efforts for me. Some of it was good, some of it was cringeworthy. I would have expected more in depth analysis into how Roy is doing? What's he done right? What's he done wrong? Tactics? Setup? Player choice? Motivation? Back-room staff? Bit of a depressed hotpotch for me.

Current squad values are intersting - how the hell did we end up so far behind other clubs? He should have mentioned Arsenals earlier as well.

what has he done right?

- signing Meireles and Cole. both players are quality performers.

what has he done wrong? tactics? set up?
- signing Konchesky instead of Salcido, the latter had a brilliant WC, and played very well last weekend too.

- his tactics are way too defensive. he seemingly sets up the team to invite pressure. it should be the other way round.

player choice
- Skrtel is doing well this season so far hence he should not be dropped but not at the expense of Agger. therefore i feel dropping Johnson and moving Carra to RB would provide more stability to the defense. or, something like this:

--------------reina
carra---skrtel---kyrgiakos---agger

Johnson can be on the bench. that f@ckker needs to have a hair cut as well. he keeps pushing his fringe behind his ears every 5 mins!

and Maxi should never play again. ever. waste of space he is.

motivation
- perhaps the ownership issue is giving an excuse for some players to underperform? they do seem happy in training based on articles and photos. but posers like Babel do need to be shipped out ASAP as he has zero motivation and ambition.

back-room staff
- can't comment on that as i do not know who left and who came in.

comparisons with other clubs
- Spurs and City have a better bench than us. so does Chelsea, Manure and Arsenal Reserves. i think a massive problem is actually the players, or at least most of them, are not winners. they have no winning mentality instilled in them. i would love to have players like Roy Keane, Bellamy, Gattuso and Cantona in our team. they have the mentality of champions and players with the determination to win even when the chips are down.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:57 am

That is a very good post max and agree with most of what you say- would just be a bit worries about playing 4 cb's across the back - it might make us a bit more steady and solid at the back but would give us nothing going forward especially from the full back areas .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:03 am

Benny The Noon wrote:That is a very good post max and agree with most of what you say- would just be a bit worries about playing 4 cb's across the back - it might make us a bit more steady and solid at the back but would give us nothing going forward especially from the full back areas .

true, it will give us nothing going forward but i reckon stability is the key for the defense right now considering how we're now moving on to man-marking instead of zonal marking, or so it seems. and hence, it would require alot of positional discipline which Johnson lacks. the only other worry would be if we are to face pacey wingers, Carra might have a problem though Kuyt's industry should nullify the threat.

by **laza** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:09 am

Good article and I'm not big fan of his style
Some good salient points especially with owners and their impact on both previous and current managers
Not sure what relevance Roy's age is though

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:27 am

Benny The Noon wrote:Tomkins latest

and a few days later, Steve Bruce – another of the Ferguson/Allardyce cartel – again stated that claim. The words “it’s all Rafa’s fault” could almost have been read from a prompt card. (Apparently Rafa had tried to sign one of Bruce’s players last season; I mean, just how dare he?)

Generically, when it comes to Liverpool, My opinion is that what Ferguson, Allardice and Steve Bruce say, that is what the Manchester United clique says, is not trustworthy.

I simply don't think that Ferguson says what's good for Liverpool. Not today, nor yesterday.

But Roy Hodgson is our manager, and it's not his fault we have some cúnts as pundits, and we have some managers that are cúnts. Roy needs time and support.

Also Roy must understand that SOS protests are not against him but against the owners.

by **Thewaykokid** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:37 am

Just want to raise some points about some of our play against sunderland and over the season

- Gerrard is playing much deeper. This has both positive and negative effects, some of his passes are superb from the deep and he can provide some of that Alonso passing we've missed. The negative i feel is that we lose the ability to build up play as the link to the man in the hole is missing. I think if Gerrard is to continue playing as deep as he is, meireles should have the opportunity to play alongside him with cole in the hole, which brings me onto my next point.
- Cole is much better in the hole than he is wide. I believe he has shown this in his performances in the europa league, where at times he has just been dominating. I'm not saying that his performances out wide have been bad, far from it, i just believe he's shown more class and creativity in the centre role.
- Our wing backs have been hopelessly narrow and terrible, and although they individually have not been performing, i feel this is a tactical decision to have the wing backs come into the box from both sides when the ball is in dangerous areas out wide. I feel as though we would benefit more from staying wider in defense and pressuring the wide players, especially with a holding mid to help centrally.
- Something has to be done about our width in attack. I think Kuyt is alright on the right as he provides a wall for johnson to break past and provides the one-two. Jova seems to have some pace but there's something about his play that seems not right to me, he doesn't stay wide enough and his positioning is poor. He seems to have a decent cross on him and i think he can develop into what we need. It seems such a shame to me now that Reira is gone, he looked at times like providing the width we really needed, and Benny could do a job aswell. I was watching Newcastle against Everton with a mate and their entire left side is top notch, jose enrique overlaps brilliantly, Guitierez is class and that Ben Arfa has some real pace and ability. SURELY we could've gotten Ben Arfa on loan over Newcastle, I mean, sell lucas or someone else useless to fund it but there just seems to be so many voids in our squad to fill. I try to keep as up to date with the owner situation as i can, but over here in Australia its hard to understand how we can be THAT poor, where did the excess Masch money go? I sat on my :censored:

all night expecting something on deadline day.......nothing.......

-Torres would benefit from a good drubbing of someone, maybe give him a start in the europa league with others. According to Hodgeson he's developed a real synergy with Cole and Meireles, maybe give all 3 a run out in the Europa League, although that being said, I wouldn't make them fly anywhere, maybe a home game would suffice. I have no doubt that once the first goal comes, or the first real Torres performance comes about, he'll just explode right back into life.

At the start of the season, I had real hopes for us, maybe because i was too excited about the cole signing, or maybe because i magically wished last season away from my memory, but things seem to be deteriorating at our club. Thankfully for us, our competitors have been failing as well, and we're lucly to not be even more points adrift. All the murmering positivity around the club at the preseason seems to have vanished. Hopefully things will turn for the better, but 6 games into the premierleague, already out of league cup, we haven't made it easy on ourselves

by **Big Niall** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:42 am

It isn't Roy's fault that the £18m full back that Benitez bought is too "f ing" stupid to know what side of an attacker to stand on for crosses. Johnson is a krap defender and I said that when we bought him, he cost us another two points. Another Benitez dud along with the £20m midfielder loaned out.

Money has been wasted and now Roy is left to deal with the fallout.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:46 am

I doubt very much that any other manager in the prem has time to study what is going on at any other club. Hes far too wrapped up in his own club. Therefore when any manager takes over a new club he has to suss out what goes on there. Dressing room, board room, ground staff, training ground staff, tea ladies and of course supporters. It is inrealistic for anyone to simply fit in and understand the subtleties of a particular club immediately because there is so much to learn, as well as the duties as a manager dont forget.
Roy has made some mistakes thus far, not just on the pitch but in the media. But that should not distract us from the fact that he is the manager of LFC and should be treated as such.
I will say again. If he fails, we fail.

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:49 am

Big Niall wrote:It isn't Roy's fault that the £18m full back that Benitez bought is too "f ing" stupid to know what side of an attacker to stand on for crosses. Johnson is a krap defender and I said that when we bought him, he cost us another two points. Another Benitez dud along with the £20m midfielder loaned out.

Money has been wasted and now Roy is left to deal with the fallout.

But it is Roy's fault for selecting him if he is s.hit. He could easily play kelly or Carra out there. So obviously Roy really rates him.

Aqua is only suited to a team that tries to keep possesion. He wouldn't fit into Roys plans.

by **Thewaykokid** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:50 am

Thommo's perm wrote:I doubt very much that any other manager in the prem has time to study what is going on at any other club. Hes far too wrapped up in his own club. Therefore when any manager takes over a new club he has to suss out what goes on there. Dressing room, board room, ground staff, training ground staff, tea ladies and of course supporters. It is inrealistic for anyone to simply fit in and understand the subtleties of a particular club immediately because there is so much to learn, as well as the duties as a manager dont forget.
Roy has made some mistakes thus far, not just on the pitch but in the media. But that should not distract us from the fact that he is the manager of LFC and should be treated as such.
I will say again. If he fails, we fail.

I completely agree, there is no way that Roy would've been completely prepared. But even last season i saw Fulham play really good, attacking english football and i just wonder why such a dramatic change when taken to a new club, I think he has to put his own personal flavour on our playing style and we're not seeing that, we're just seeing the faults of last season.

by **Thewaykokid** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:52 am

jacdaniel wrote:
Big Niall wrote:It isn't Roy's fault that the £18m full back that Benitez bought is too "f ing" stupid to know what side of an attacker to stand on for crosses. Johnson is a krap defender and I said that when we bought him, he cost us another two points. Another Benitez dud along with the £20m midfielder loaned out.

Money has been wasted and now Roy is left to deal with the fallout.

But it is Roy's fault for selecting him if he is s.hit. He could easily play kelly or Carra out there. So obviously Roy really rates him.

Aqua is only suited to a team that tries to keep possesion. He wouldn't fit into Roys plans.

On that same principle with Aqua, sure he's a player who needs a possesive style of play........why aren't we playing like that regardless of whether he is here or not? We should look to dominate home and away, we could do it 2 seasons ago, how can we have deteriorated so much?

by **Big Niall** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:53 am

jacdaniel wrote:
Big Niall wrote:It isn't Roy's fault that the £18m full back that Benitez bought is too "f ing" stupid to know what side of an attacker to stand on for crosses. Johnson is a krap defender and I said that when we bought him, he cost us another two points. Another Benitez dud along with the £20m midfielder loaned out.

Money has been wasted and now Roy is left to deal with the fallout.

But it is Roy's fault for selecting him if he is s.hit. He could easily play kelly or Carra out there. So obviously Roy really rates him.

Aqua is only suited to a team that tries to keep possesion. He wouldn't fit into Roys plans.

Carra isn't a full back. Roy has a rubbish squad as the money was blown. 38m spent and nothing to show for it.

by **Big Niall** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:56 am

Thewaykokid wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:
Big Niall wrote:It isn't Roy's fault that the £18m full back that Benitez bought is too "f ing" stupid to know what side of an attacker to stand on for crosses. Johnson is a krap defender and I said that when we bought him, he cost us another two points. Another Benitez dud along with the £20m midfielder loaned out.

Money has been wasted and now Roy is left to deal with the fallout.

But it is Roy's fault for selecting him if he is s.hit. He could easily play kelly or Carra out there. So obviously Roy really rates him.

Aqua is only suited to a team that tries to keep possesion. He wouldn't fit into Roys plans.

On that same principle with Aqua, sure he's a player who needs a possesive style of play........why aren't we playing like that regardless of whether he is here or not? We should look to dominate home and away, we could do it 2 seasons ago, how can we have deteriorated so much?

Because centre midfield runs the game and we had a world class centre midfielder who could control a game and Benitez tried to sell him for just 10m, now Alonso is gone. Benitez replaced him with an injury prone player who is now out on loan.

The last manager has run the club into the ground. Roy has little to work with.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:56 am

Thewaykokid wrote:
Thommo's perm wrote:I doubt very much that any other manager in the prem has time to study what is going on at any other club. Hes far too wrapped up in his own club. Therefore when any manager takes over a new club he has to suss out what goes on there. Dressing room, board room, ground staff, training ground staff, tea ladies and of course supporters. It is inrealistic for anyone to simply fit in and understand the subtleties of a particular club immediately because there is so much to learn, as well as the duties as a manager dont forget.
Roy has made some mistakes thus far, not just on the pitch but in the media. But that should not distract us from the fact that he is the manager of LFC and should be treated as such.
I will say again. If he fails, we fail.

I completely agree, there is no way that Roy would've been completely prepared. But even last season i saw Fulham play really good, attacking english football and i just wonder why such a dramatic change when taken to a new club, I think he has to put his own personal flavour on our playing style and we're not seeing that, we're just seeing the faults of last season.

I honestly think he is still sussing things out and is trying (not very well) to set us up not to be defeated. I hope he will come to the realistaion very soon that the fans would rather we played attacking, creative, exciting football. Even if we get beat lets go down fighting.
If he doesnt realise this soon we will be in danger of struggling to get a draw never mind a win.

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