Liverpool FC Forum

Octsky wrote:so far Roy has been correcting Rafa's mistakes, n very much work-in-progress.

Sami Hypia: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, club wont release)

Peter Crouch: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, scored hat trick to put spurs into Champs league)

Bellamy: rafa, sold. few BPL club wants to sign him but deem too dangerous for ManC, loan to div 1

Aurellio:Rafa, sold. Roy, Resign

Alonso: rafa, sold, player lost faith in manager, signs Aquaman as replacement.

Aquaman: Rafa, Signed, injured for 3 months, didnt play much, fitness still a doubt. Roy, loan to Juve to save wage n protect value.

Arbeloa: Rafa, sold. player spend majority season on RM's bench. spend 18m to sign Johnson.
as a result we have no back up striker for Torres. Roy, looking for backup striker bf transfer window close in a few wks time.

Reira n Beneyou: useful wingers, fed up with Rafa, sold. Roy, signs Joe Cole.

Lucas: featured too much under Rafa. Roy, sign Poulsen to increase competition.

Highly rated youngsters: not used by rafa. Roy, trying to blend them slowly into 1st team.

i just hope that Roy wont commit too many mistakes for the next manager (if) to correct them again.

Emerald Red wrote:

Octsky wrote:so far Roy has been correcting Rafa's mistakes, n very much work-in-progress.

Sami Hypia: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, club wont release)

Peter Crouch: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, scored hat trick to put spurs into Champs league)

Bellamy: rafa, sold. few BPL club wants to sign him but deem too dangerous for ManC, loan to div 1

Aurellio:Rafa, sold. Roy, Resign

Alonso: rafa, sold, player lost faith in manager, signs Aquaman as replacement.

Aquaman: Rafa, Signed, injured for 3 months, didnt play much, fitness still a doubt. Roy, loan to Juve to save wage n protect value.

Arbeloa: Rafa, sold. player spend majority season on RM's bench. spend 18m to sign Johnson.
as a result we have no back up striker for Torres. Roy, looking for backup striker bf transfer window close in a few wks time.

Reira n Beneyou: useful wingers, fed up with Rafa, sold. Roy, signs Joe Cole.

Lucas: featured too much under Rafa. Roy, sign Poulsen to increase competition.

Highly rated youngsters: not used by rafa. Roy, trying to blend them slowly into 1st team.

i just hope that Roy wont commit too many mistakes for the next manager (if) to correct them again.

Some of the biggest, most lopsided bollox I've ever read on this forum, and that is a statement right there in itself. Absolutely unreal how a person can spew so much sh*te in a single post.

Emerald Red wrote:

Octsky wrote:so far Roy has been correcting Rafa's mistakes, n very much work-in-progress.

Sami Hypia: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, club wont release)

Peter Crouch: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, scored hat trick to put spurs into Champs league)

Bellamy: rafa, sold. few BPL club wants to sign him but deem too dangerous for ManC, loan to div 1

Aurellio:Rafa, sold. Roy, Resign

Alonso: rafa, sold, player lost faith in manager, signs Aquaman as replacement.

Aquaman: Rafa, Signed, injured for 3 months, didnt play much, fitness still a doubt. Roy, loan to Juve to save wage n protect value.

Arbeloa: Rafa, sold. player spend majority season on RM's bench. spend 18m to sign Johnson.
as a result we have no back up striker for Torres. Roy, looking for backup striker bf transfer window close in a few wks time.

Reira n Beneyou: useful wingers, fed up with Rafa, sold. Roy, signs Joe Cole.

Lucas: featured too much under Rafa. Roy, sign Poulsen to increase competition.

Highly rated youngsters: not used by rafa. Roy, trying to blend them slowly into 1st team.

i just hope that Roy wont commit too many mistakes for the next manager (if) to correct them again.

Some of the biggest, most lopsided bollox I've ever read on this forum, and that is a statement right there in itself. Absolutely unreal how a person can spew so much sh*te in a single post.

Scottbot wrote:

stmichael wrote:

Scottbot wrote:Just for those who point blank claim 4-4-2 does not work in the Premiership or in big games I think it's worth pointing out that Spurs played it yesterday and dished out a 4-0 hammering and they also employed in the opener AGAINST CITY and absolutely spanked em in that first half despite somehow failing to score. The personnel and tempo of your passing is JUST as important as the formation selected.

if spurs play 4-4-2 against anyone decent in the CL they'll get spanked.

playing 4-4-2 against city the other day was a mistake but the extent to which gray used it as a stick to beat rafa with was tiresome and laughable. before the game hodgson was apparently "brave" for playing 4-4-2 and we had to listen to gray waffling on about how benitez wouldn't have played two upfront and then had to endure another five minutes of how gerrard should be playing centre mid blah blah blah.

we end up getting spanked 3-0 and yet because it's roy and he's english we'll let him off. if that had been rafa in charge of us he'd have got pulled to shreds. and don't even get me started on spurs. redknapp isn't a tactician in the slightest. they get results by having a high tempo passing game. even if spurs get a tonking in the cl the pundits over here still won't question harry's tactics one bit. it'll be oh spurs are naive at this level and other such nonsense. his tactics were shocking in the first half of the first leg against young boys and yet when they asked tony cottee in the studio if redknapp got his tactics wrong we got a "no i don't think so". once again had it been us under rafa he'd have got slaughtered.

rant over. why am i so angry on my birthday?  

Belated Happy Birthday dude! I agree oon Andy Gray, he didn't half go on about playing the 4-4-2 away and so forth and it got a bit tedious. Must admit I was a little bit surprised to see us set up that way and my first thought was that's brave but it could be a big mistake (which it proved to be). But then watching the first 10 minutes and seeing as City weren't even playing with a proper number 9 I started to think we might just have stolen the initiative here but the personel was all wrong, we sat too deep and our passing was slow and lethargic. However, I still stand by what I say about Spurs, i've been immensely impressed with what i've seen so far this season. They may well get a hammering playing 4-4-2 in Europe but I think they'll surprise a few people. WAtch them play and notice how big they make the pitch, how quickly they move the ball, the play of their wide players, and how effectively they use Crouch/Defoe in the forward positions. It's classic 4-4-2 play. The formation is not dead and buried, not if you play it correctly. I hope (and believe) the best way for us to play is with Torres up front on his own but if Hodgson wants to play some 4-4-2 it may take him some time to get it right because he plainly got it wrong the other night.

fivecups wrote:Good points Owzat - apart from the Belfast racism ! I'd add a few things to it.

Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games, very strange, but again not someone we need at the club.

Arbeloa only had a year left on his contract. He wanted to play for Real. We could either accept £2.5 million or force him to stay and risk him disrupting the dressing room, leaving on a free a year later.

The Alonso/ Barry thing was clearly a huge balls up as we ended up with neither. I think Barrys an excellent player, we'll see that this season but Alonso was pure magic. In Rafa's defense on this one, Alonso had his two worst seasons at the club until 08/9 and Rafa wanted Barry above Keane, but we'll not reopen that can of worms. I wasn't in favour of trying to sell Alonso at any time.

"Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games"

Where did you get this information from...?

Thommo's perm wrote:

fivecups wrote:Good points Owzat - apart from the Belfast racism ! I'd add a few things to it.

Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games, very strange, but again not someone we need at the club.

Arbeloa only had a year left on his contract. He wanted to play for Real. We could either accept £2.5 million or force him to stay and risk him disrupting the dressing room, leaving on a free a year later.

The Alonso/ Barry thing was clearly a huge balls up as we ended up with neither. I think Barrys an excellent player, we'll see that this season but Alonso was pure magic. In Rafa's defense on this one, Alonso had his two worst seasons at the club until 08/9 and Rafa wanted Barry above Keane, but we'll not reopen that can of worms. I wasn't in favour of trying to sell Alonso at any time.

"Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games"

Where did you get this information from...?

Thommo's perm wrote:

fivecups wrote:Good points Owzat - apart from the Belfast racism ! I'd add a few things to it.

Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games, very strange, but again not someone we need at the club.

Arbeloa only had a year left on his contract. He wanted to play for Real. We could either accept £2.5 million or force him to stay and risk him disrupting the dressing room, leaving on a free a year later.

The Alonso/ Barry thing was clearly a huge balls up as we ended up with neither. I think Barrys an excellent player, we'll see that this season but Alonso was pure magic. In Rafa's defense on this one, Alonso had his two worst seasons at the club until 08/9 and Rafa wanted Barry above Keane, but we'll not reopen that can of worms. I wasn't in favour of trying to sell Alonso at any time.

"Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games"

Where did you get this information from...?

The Raven wrote:

Thommo's perm wrote:

fivecups wrote:Good points Owzat - apart from the Belfast racism ! I'd add a few things to it.

Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games, very strange, but again not someone we need at the club.

Arbeloa only had a year left on his contract. He wanted to play for Real. We could either accept £2.5 million or force him to stay and risk him disrupting the dressing room, leaving on a free a year later.

The Alonso/ Barry thing was clearly a huge balls up as we ended up with neither. I think Barrys an excellent player, we'll see that this season but Alonso was pure magic. In Rafa's defense on this one, Alonso had his two worst seasons at the club until 08/9 and Rafa wanted Barry above Keane, but we'll not reopen that can of worms. I wasn't in favour of trying to sell Alonso at any time.

"Aquilani, apparently wasn't just physically injured but had psychologically issues as well. Supposedly he wasn't training well and made multiple excuses to get out of playing games"

Where did you get this information from...?

Rafa, he more or less said last season that hes not injured but thought he was.

Oh. I thought it was from a pshyciatrist or someone qualified to give such an assessment.
I remember Rafa saying that

Bad Bob wrote:

In and Out wrote:Okay I'll try and add a bit of decent discussion to this thread.

FWIW the formation Roy chooses will need time to be bedded in especially if it's a 4-4-2. Last night was the first time N'gog and Torres played upfront together. He surely needs the privelidge of finding the best dynamics with the players at his disposal, unfortunately some of those players shouldn't be near the first team squad on such a regular basis, whatever...


I wasn't that impressed with Citeh to be honest we weren't on the back ropes so to speak we were just chasing shadows most of the night. Those shadows were being chased in midfield and it's not as if they were attacking us at will. Tevez IMO was the difference between our strikers and theirs, he made the ball stick, he controlled the ball brillantly shrugged a player off and waited for support. Something either N'gog or Torres couldn't do, Kuyt to was guily of trapping the ball further than John Madden can kick.

It was the same under the previous manager our ball retention as a team overall is so fecking poor in comparison to at least half a dozen sides in the Prem. Instead of retaining the ball our lads are to quick and from to deep always looking to play the killer pass, it's to predictable. Jovonovic was a dissapoint last night, infact the midfield four as a unit were, both Jovanovic and Kuyt were largely inefficient out wide. Nothing really clicked, we did have a few nice patterns of play during the first half and a little pressure in the second half but isn't nearly enough. I remember when we played this formation under Rafa and couldn't get a win for toffee, then all of a sudden he went 4.2.3.1 and we went on a role, the team dynamics were better. Perhaps after looking at that last night we don't really have the personel to play a 4-4-2 and even if we do it will take a hell of a lot of work to get it working.

We played 4-4-2 under Houllier and that worked (different players of course) and the one thing I did notice compared to last nights game was that Houllier always had the two banks of four tight together. It was a unit, first the oppo would have to break down a wall of four and do the same against the defence to get a sight on goal. We were hard to break down, but last night there was no discipline players were caught out here and out of poition there, we didn't look like a unit it looked erratic.

Citeh on the other hand played lovely little composed triangles and their ability and control on the ball made certain players on our side look like amateurs. Firstly their retention was class and their movement off the ball was good ours was non-exsistant and that has nothing to do with ROy at this early stage of his season, we've always been like this even under Rafa. Yet Roy went for an expansive approach maybe due to force changes or whatever it didn't pay off, he'll learn from it. It will take more transfers unfortunatley to get the right players in who look comfortable with the ball at their feet, Cole being one of them, Aquallani perhaps would have been another.

I'm not going to loose sleep over this as no way can I see this season being anyworse than last seasons shambolic displays, just give the guy a chance ffs.

Good post.  I would add two things that have been said before but were illustrated again last night:

1) Kuyt is not especially suited to the RM role in a 4-4-2.  He spent half the night dropping into CM to get the ball off Lucas or Gerrard, which meant that our shape was all wrong.  When he did get the ball, he did little with it because he's not a play-maker from the middle of the park.  When he got it out wide, his distribution was poor and his ability to retain possession was weak.  Johnson had a bad night at the office behind him, which didn't help either.

2) Ngog doesn't hold the ball up particularly well at all.  That's a liability whenever he plays, whether as a lone striker or as a foil for Torres.  He needs to get much stronger at holding off defenders as, far too often, he gets brushed aside when the ball comes into feet and we're under the cosh once more.  The lad's shown that he can be useful as an out and out striker (fox in the box type) but we need much more than that from our forwards regardless of the system we play.  They must be able to retain possession and bring teammates into play.

Octsky wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Octsky wrote:so far Roy has been correcting Rafa's mistakes, n very much work-in-progress.

Sami Hypia: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, club wont release)

Peter Crouch: rafa (sold off), Roy (try to sign back, scored hat trick to put spurs into Champs league)

Bellamy: rafa, sold. few BPL club wants to sign him but deem too dangerous for ManC, loan to div 1

Aurellio:Rafa, sold. Roy, Resign

Alonso: rafa, sold, player lost faith in manager, signs Aquaman as replacement.

Aquaman: Rafa, Signed, injured for 3 months, didnt play much, fitness still a doubt. Roy, loan to Juve to save wage n protect value.

Arbeloa: Rafa, sold. player spend majority season on RM's bench. spend 18m to sign Johnson.
as a result we have no back up striker for Torres. Roy, looking for backup striker bf transfer window close in a few wks time.

Reira n Beneyou: useful wingers, fed up with Rafa, sold. Roy, signs Joe Cole.

Lucas: featured too much under Rafa. Roy, sign Poulsen to increase competition.

Highly rated youngsters: not used by rafa. Roy, trying to blend them slowly into 1st team.

i just hope that Roy wont commit too many mistakes for the next manager (if) to correct them again.

Some of the biggest, most lopsided bollox I've ever read on this forum, and that is a statement right there in itself. Absolutely unreal how a person can spew so much sh*te in a single post.

we did resign Aurellio, tried to resign Hypia, strong linked with Crouch, Bellamy (to some extend).

Reira and Benny, Alonso left becoz they couldn't spend another min with Rafa. Joe cole came in.

Dani Pacheno threatens to leave, and get the number 15 instead of #42 from Roy and starts to feature for the first team.

the season we sign Johnson is the season Torres got injured for half of the season n we arent covered.

saw from the board we signed Raúl meireles. so if RM is signed to replace masch, the Poulsen is signed for what??
to replace Lucas.

ya loads of rubbish. Rafa shouldnt have left, n now he is talking of changing Inter, present euro champs n treble winners for the better after they lost in the Super cup.