Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:22 am

To become an "anti" towards any manager you have to first see them operate over a sustained period of time,

I hope you are right. IMHO these days to get an anti brigade you only need a big club, and some bad results.

Istambul gave Rafa a bit of time, but patience is not the best virtue of world wide fans. I do expect though the regular match goers supporting the manager like they did with Rafa, that's a different story.

The previous manager got three or four seasons before people began to have their serious doubts, this manager deserves the same.

IMHO he deserves respect as Rafa did because he's the current Liverpool manager.

It wouldn't be fair to ask him a CL in the first season

:;):

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:32 am

Sabre wrote:It wouldn't be fair to ask him a CL in the first season

Totally agree mate as we're not in it. We came 7th in the league last season, and much as UEFA would no doubt love to have a system which makes big clubs getting in an absolute certainty, I think even they can't stretch to 7th.

by **aCe'** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:35 am

by **Sabre** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:41 am

bigmick wrote:
Sabre wrote:It wouldn't be fair to ask him a CL in the first season

Totally agree mate as we're not in it. We came 7th in the league last season, and much as UEFA would no doubt love to have a system which makes big clubs getting in an absolute certainty, I think even they can't stretch to 7th.

Well I know that, but if you have a good time with your humour so that your sidekicks laugh at the obvious, enjoy yourself, here peace and tomorrow glory.

I just meant that in the current situation, we cannot ask him a major title right from the start.

He's got enough work in a difficult time for the club.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:42 am

Sabre wrote:I just meant that in the current situation, we cannot ask him a major title right from the start.

He's got enough work in a difficult time for the club.

Totally agree mate.

by **tonyeh** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:10 am

Have to say, the more I see and hear of Roy, the happier I feel. I know I said that I just couldn't see Roy Hodgson working out at Liverpool when the lots were being drawn, but I'm glad he's here. Seems like a decent, intelligent chap.

Of course, the real test will be on the field of battle, as it were.

by **Owzat** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:12 pm

I just hope he doesn't feel pressured not to lose and we end up drawing. Rafa never managed to get "not losing" out of his system, I guess it is a mentality and with Woy being a manager not unaccustomed to losing at Fulham, he may see draws as a point gained more than two points lost. Time will tell

by **fivecups** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:14 pm

Sabre wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Sabre wrote:It wouldn't be fair to ask him a CL in the first season

Totally agree mate as we're not in it. We came 7th in the league last season, and much as UEFA would no doubt love to have a system which makes big clubs getting in an absolute certainty, I think even they can't stretch to 7th.

Well I know that, but if you have a good time with your humour so that your sidekicks laugh at the obvious, enjoy yourself, here peace and tomorrow glory.

I just meant that in the current situation, we cannot ask him a major title right from the start.

He's got enough work in a difficult time for the club.

The other thing that should be said is that belief in a manager is a dynamic thing. We were all pro-Rafa at the end of May 2005 and I think almost everyone is pro-Hodgson now. It doesn't make sense to pidgeon-hole everyone as pro or anti because people loose belief at different times changing their opinion - some in 2007, I personally made my mind up Rafa wasn't going to get the best out of the team anymore last Christmas; others never changed their mind. When Houllier left the only believer left on this forum was Stu.

Point is it's a dynamic thing.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:24 pm

Owzat wrote:I just hope he doesn't feel pressured not to lose and we end up drawing. Rafa never managed to get "not losing" out of his system, I guess it is a mentality and with Woy being a manager not unaccustomed to losing at Fulham, he may see draws as a point gained more than two points lost. Time will tell

I think that kind of depends Owz to be honest. If we were actually trying to win the title, properly seriously going for it, then I agree with you the previous manager was far too defensive at times. As of now though, we probably aren't (obviously if we were right up there in November that would change) and it's worth remembering that Roy's task is surely to improve on last season first and formost.

For instance if we drew our first match of the season at Home to Arsenal, it would be by no means a disaster. Not sayiong of course that we should set up to draw it, but it definately wouldn't be a bad result in itself. It's worth remembering that we lost both Home and Away to Arsenal last season, so a little 1-1 at Home first time up shouldn't have anybody crying too much.

Similarly, we wouldn't be best advised going too gung ho at Man City either. I've said it a few times now that I think they'll win the league, and a draw there will be better than most teams do IMHO.

No, we are firstly trying to ensure that we do better than 7th. We aren't realistically at this stage going to win the league, so settling for a point in the odd match wouldn't hurt. Obviously though, when we are playing the likes of Wigan at Home I would be bitterly disappointed if we went down the two holding midfielders route. To that end, I would be bitterly disappointed if we saw the Lucas/Masherano axis under any circumstances at all, with the possible exception of horrendous injuries forcing our hand.

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:36 pm

fivecups wrote:The other thing that should be said is that belief in a manager is a dynamic thing. We were all pro-Rafa at the end of May 2005 and I think almost everyone is pro-Hodgson now. It doesn't make sense to pidgeon-hole everyone as pro or anti because people loose belief at different times changing their opinion - some in 2007, I personally made my mind up Rafa wasn't going to get the best out of the team anymore last Christmas; others never changed their mind. When Houllier left the only believer left on this forum was Stu.

Point is it's a dynamic thing.

Very true mate. People make their minds up at different stages, and it's why if posters possibly can they should avoid digging themselves a trench which will be difficult to climb out of should things not got the way you expect.

I thought that at times the defence of all things to do with the previous manager was bordering on the ridiculous. Nothing wrong with believing in the bloke, loving him even, nothing wrong with having sensible opinions to back it up, but the "it's the owners" which followed each defeat, and the "he's a genius" which followed each victory made sensible debate redundant for much of the latter part of his reign. Similarly, "Rafa didn't sign him Parry did" when players didn't work out, "brilliant signing by Rafa" when they did, and "we would have bought (insert any player who's turned out to be any good) had he not had his hands tied behind his back" did the same. No doubt those same people would say people such as me blamed the manager for absolutely everything whether it was his fault or not, so obviously these things cut both ways.

THIS IS NOT A DEBATE OR A POINT ABOUT THE PREVIOUS MANAGER, I'M TALKING ABOUT FORUM DYNAMICS.

That's why hopefully people can live with the Hodgson regime in a bit more of a reasonable way with each other. I like the bloke and am a pro for now, but aside from "wind up Benny" purposes I won't be blaming the owners if we don't play well or Roys signings turn out to be rubbish. I wont bother denying the sky is blue when I can see it out of my window, and I'm reserving judgement on how the manager is getting on. I'm hopeful he'll be an improvement, but if he isn't I won't be shy of admitting I'm wrong.

People decide things at different points in the cycle though. It doesn't make anyone more clever if they picked it first.

by **Reg** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:55 pm

Mick... you cant help yourself... its ALWAYS a discussion about Rafa, it became an obsession with you months and months ago.

You hate the guy so much you cant even mention his name.

by **Fauxy** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:02 pm

Did you not hear Reg?

'His' name has been purged from existence

by **bigmick** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Reg wrote:Mick... you cant help yourself... its ALWAYS a discussion about Rafa, it became an obsession with you months and months ago.

You hate the guy so much you cant even mention his name.

Let it go Reggie, let it go. I don't "hate" anyone because lifes far too short for that.

The thing that was always funny about people such as yourself, was that you could never quite get your head around the fact that it wasn't about "hating" anyone, it was about football. If you didn't believe the Lucas/Masherano axis was the best way to play, or you didn't buy into the idea that Rick Parry was buying footballers who the manager didn't want for 20 million quid, it was because you "hated" the manager. If we were actually able to debate football on here, as opposed to expressing our love and undying devotion to managers past and present, this would be a far better place to hang around.

For many of the people like yourself who dished it out over the years, flinging around the "you're a disgrace"'s and the "why don't you feck off and support somebody else"'s, the true depth of your devotion has been revealed for all to see over the last few weeks. The stuff flying around here about his replacement wasn't based on anything to do with football, it was rooted in something much deeper than that.

Nearly all of those people have now moved on and it's been good to see. They are able to discuss things sensibly, not every single word of every single post dripping with regret over managers past. Some are finding it more difficult obviously.

Let it go Reggie he's gone mate, let it go.

by **zarababe** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:50 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:roy is lkie TOm bak;eer takking Liverp[ol back to t he glorty days in hios TArdiis
Somebosy te;l me to g o to bed fffs

GO TO BED

by **Reg** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:13 pm

bigmick wrote:
Reg wrote:Mick... you cant help yourself... its ALWAYS a discussion about Rafa, it became an obsession with you months and months ago.

You hate the guy so much you cant even mention his name.

Let it go Reggie, let it go. I don't "hate" anyone because lifes far too short for that.

The thing that was always funny about people such as yourself, was that you could never quite get your head around the fact that it wasn't about "hating" anyone, it was about football. If you didn't believe the Lucas/Masherano axis was the best way to play, or you didn't buy into the idea that Rick Parry was buying footballers who the manager didn't want for 20 million quid, it was because you "hated" the manager. If we were actually able to debate football on here, as opposed to expressing our love and undying devotion to managers past and present, this would be a far better place to hang around.

For many of the people like yourself who dished it out over the years, flinging around the "you're a disgrace"'s and the "why don't you feck off and support somebody else"'s, the true depth of your devotion has been revealed for all to see over the last few weeks. The stuff flying around here about his replacement wasn't based on anything to do with football, it was rooted in something much deeper than that.

Nearly all of those people have now moved on and it's been good to see. They are able to discuss things sensibly, not every single word of every single post dripping with regret over managers past. Some are finding it more difficult obviously.

Let it go Reggie he's gone mate, let it go.

I stated Mick and I stand by it, a new manager needs to earn respect, I dont immediately swoon in front of a new appointment as some appear to. I hope to high heaven Roy works out as the success of the club short, medium and long term is dependant on it but lets separate the need to prove himself from tribal adoration simply becuase he´s been appointed.

Yes I was annoyed Rafa was sacked, as I´ve always maintained, a manager doesnt go from being first class one year (2nd in the league) to cannon fodder the next with the massive, fanatical abuse he received from you and others on this forum.

Again we need to separate the reality of running a business and football club with forum preaching when folks 'know it all' and criticise every decision a manager makes, day after day, week after week, month after month, all the time becoming more and more 'right' and obsessive. Armchair managers.

Mick, a number of posters have mentioned your preaching in the short time you´ve been back, think it through mate becuase these comments are written for fun.

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