Liverpool FC Forum

[Dundalk]

I know we havent played any major games yet but Roy is coming across very well. I also take my hat off to posters such as Igor Zidane and Roberto Green who after first dismising Roy are now willing to give him a chance.

So far he has been like a breath of fresh air to the club and its what we needed. I suppose the real test will come when the league starts.

[fivecups]

Some truisms which I think pretty much everyone would agree with if they're honest:

1. I had completely lost any faith in the previous manager and was hyper critical of him. It almost got to the point where if he bought a player I expected them to fail, such was my lack of faith in him.

2. Some of my posts on the current manager contain references to mistakes I think the previous manager made (such things as over rotation, over analysis, being too defensive, sticking with the Lucas/Masherano axis etc). I put them in because I hope he doesn't make the same mistakes (in my opinion obviously). If he does go in for uber rotation for example, I will be just as critical of him as I was of Rafa because I think it is a flawed policy. Ditto the Lucas/Masherano axis etc etc. People who have abused me for years and continue to do so, see these as "sly digs". They may even have a point.

3. I have been very keen to stress that even as a "pro" as far as Roy Hodgson is concerned, I will never behave in the same way as some of the "pro" Rafa people did. Namely I won't abuse people who don't believe in him as much as I do, I won't blame every single mishap on "the owners innit", and I won't deny the blindingly obvious just to avoid the scenario of me admitting I might have called something wrong. Some of the defence of some of the mistakes which were made under the previous manager was frankly ridiculous and stifled sensible football talk on the forum (Rafa didn't buy Keane Parry did etc etc).

4. A lot of my posts are too long.

5. I do talk utter b0ll0cks sometimes.

6. I never abused Rafa. I never called him a c..., a fat spanish waiter, I never talked of him being a sh!t manager, never took the mickey out of the way he spoke or any of that stuff. Never, ever.

There you go, there's six things there which I defy anyone to disagree with. Back onto Roy Hodgson, he's far more interesting than me.

My take, being honest:

1. I agree with this. IMO your normally balanced posts became deeply biased. Everything that happened was skewed to be a negative towards Rafa. I think there was a time (not knowing you from Adam) when you seemed to be pretty unhappy and because of your powerful presence here that could be felt on the board. You seem much happier now and thats magic.

2. I agree and this seems fairly natural given Rafa has only just left. I do think it's unreasonable of you to often refer to Rafa, and not expect others to do the same.

3. You did get a lot of abuse. You also tended to take the most extreme pro viewpoint and run with it, battering down a lot of more reasonable opinions that would have benefited from proper football discussion, not generalising sarcasm - 'fecking Parry' being one that particularly drove me up the wall. I am probably biased here as until Xmas I was a nailed on pro.

4. Strongly disagree. There was time when most posts on here were the same length, when small footballing points were debated in great detail and it as actually educational to be on here. Unfortunately many of the posters no longer post.

6. I once remember being annoyed that you called him a chump once.

[aCe']

There was time when most posts on here were the same length, when small footballing points were debated in great detail and it as actually educational to be on here. Unfortunately many of the posters no longer post.

good point.. Hard to talk football though on the forum in recent times with many either sticking to one-liners or derailing thread by bringing up non-relevant issue... Sometimes even both simultaneously 

[maguskwt]

Some truisms which I think pretty much everyone would agree with if they're honest:

1. I had completely lost any faith in the previous manager and was hyper critical of him. It almost got to the point where if he bought a player I expected them to fail, such was my lack of faith in him.

2. Some of my posts on the current manager contain references to mistakes I think the previous manager made (such things as over rotation, over analysis, being too defensive, sticking with the Lucas/Masherano axis etc). I put them in because I hope he doesn't make the same mistakes (in my opinion obviously). If he does go in for uber rotation for example, I will be just as critical of him as I was of Rafa because I think it is a flawed policy. Ditto the Lucas/Masherano axis etc etc. People who have abused me for years and continue to do so, see these as "sly digs". They may even have a point.

3. I have been very keen to stress that even as a "pro" as far as Roy Hodgson is concerned, I will never behave in the same way as some of the "pro" Rafa people did. Namely I won't abuse people who don't believe in him as much as I do, I won't blame every single mishap on "the owners innit", and I won't deny the blindingly obvious just to avoid the scenario of me admitting I might have called something wrong. Some of the defence of some of the mistakes which were made under the previous manager was frankly ridiculous and stifled sensible football talk on the forum (Rafa didn't buy Keane Parry did etc etc).

4. A lot of my posts are too long.

5. I do talk utter b0ll0cks sometimes.

6. I never abused Rafa. I never called him a c..., a fat spanish waiter, I never talked of him being a sh!t manager, never took the mickey out of the way he spoke or any of that stuff. Never, ever.

There you go, there's six things there which I defy anyone to disagree with. Back onto Roy Hodgson, he's far more interesting than me.

1.Thou shalt not kill..

2.Thou shalt not commit adultery...

3.Thou shalt not steal...

If you defy these commandments I shall strike you with lightning...



just taking the p*ss Mick... 

[7_Kewell]

Well unlike some posters roy was always on my list, really looking forward to the start of the season even with the troubles still hanging over us.

he wasn't my first choice, but he certainly wasn't bottom of the pile either. He's a football man who knows and understands the English game, something we've not had for a decade.

I'm confident that he'll get us in to the top 4, but we'll see. If he has a bad start to the season then a lot of fans will turn on him v quickly

[Zidane]

I don't think we can do with a bad start to the season, I really don't.

[Igor Zidane]

Might be an idea to see how pre-season goes first before worrying about the start of the season . Still along way to go yet . For what it's worth Mick hasn't got a nasty bone in his body imo . He's taken dogs abuse over the past couple of years and instead of giving it back with more on top , he's carried on argueing the toss. I disagree with mick so much over the previous manger and not once have i had to abuse him ,nor he me .Why because he's quite capable of argueing the toss without resorting to abuse . There's some proper bells an here who all they can do is give abuse to stregnthen the arguement (or so they think ) but i'm more than happy to give it them back because they deserve it . Mick is not one of them . I can see he's genuinley excited about the new manager and the new season , well good for him because he obviously hasn't felt like that for a while . I felt like that under Rafa every year and i would have felt like that this year . Now i'm  seriously curious and interested as to what will happen . All starting to get very exciting don't you think .

[fergieisawhiskeynosedtw@t]

Sorry when I meant digs I didn't mean insults or abuse I meant criticism and its quite amusing when he himself stated a while back he will refuse to get into any discussions regarding previous manager or post about him . And the issue myself and it seems others have is the way Mick seems to be preaching when he posts and posting in an arrogant way that suggests his word is gospel and if you disagree then prepare to be labelled and derided and put into a little group that he will give a pet name too . Shame really because beyond that he makes a lot of sense and some cracking football based posts and thought provoking with solid theories but they get lost in all the self importance . Just my opinion .

feck me   someone give benny some Prozac

[Kharhaz]

I also take my hat off to posters such as Igor Zidane and Roberto Green who after first dismising Roy are now willing to give him a chance.

Im sorry Dundalk and Bigmick, but I disagree with this totally. You want to praise supporters for doing their role as supporters?

They have come around to him and deserve a round of applause? give me strength.

Where is our round of applause for seeing rafa turn the team into the biggest joke last season?

Where is our round of applause for biting our lip at the prospect of beating chelsea to hand over number 19 to man united?

Where is our round of applause to not accept mediocrity in all its glory due to rafas negative tactics?

Where is our round of applause to seeing good players leave the club as rafa has his own favourites, and the rest are fodder, like it or lump it attitude, we have had to endure it?

No, I wont give any credit whatsoever to supporters who absolutely without question took rafa as the saviour of this club. And I definitely wont give credit for supporters putting the agendas first before the clubs. The hypocrisy involved can be smelled from the heavens. Rafa is untouchable and yet his replacement can be judged. The whole attitude stinks. Agendas are coming first before the club.

[Greavesie]

post of the summer, easy. Mind it's close to RBG's whopper in the Movies thread last night 

[Owzat]

How about one superb season 2004/5, one good season 2005/6, one fu'cked up season 2006/7, one bad season 2007/8, one nearly good season 2008/9 and one terrible season 2009/10?

2004/5 fails to constitute a "superb season", we finished below the bitters in the league in a disappointing FIFTH place, only got back into Europe by the back door, and lost FOURTEEN league games, not forgetting we bombed out of the FA Cup to BURNLEY. The whole season was carried by that night in Istanbul, the season and Rafa's reign perceived as better than it actually was by that stumble to success. And I include the run to it, last ditch salvage jobs vs Olympiakos and the ghost goal to win the semi, it was a silver lining on a very dark cloud in a thunderstorm.

To put 04/05 into perspective :

04/05 : lost 19 games
09/10 : lost 19 games

Difference = ISTANBUL. We won more games in the Premiership and better off by FIVE points, yet last season was a disaster. One more goal and we might have been beating Fulham in the final, would that have made last season any less a disaster? Shows how one or two results can completely shift the perception of the whole season/campaign

[In and Out]

No, I wont give any credit whatsoever to supporters who absolutely without question took rafa as the saviour of this club. And I definitely wont give credit for supporters putting the agendas first before the clubs. The hypocrisy involved can be smelled from the heavens. Rafa is untouchable and yet his replacement can be judged. The whole attitude stinks. Agendas are coming first before the club.

THIS

[bigmick]

Some interesting points made in the aftermath of a minor spat.

I DO think some posters deserve credit for slightly revising their opinion. For a while it looked like Roy wasn't even going to be given a chance, and some of the aforementioned fans willingness to get behind him a bit more says a lot for their sense of reason. It's too easy on forums to say "he's sh!t and he'll never make it, FACT" and be in a trench from which it's difficult to crawl out of when the bloke wins the golden boot. The forum would be better if all of us were a bit more willing to revise our opinions from time to time. Yes I do include me in that.

The other thing I would say is I'm getting tired of being accused of labelling people and putting them into little groups, pigeon holing them effectively. Most of those accusations seem to be coming from people who actually do belong in a number of different clubs. We've got some posters who are founder members of the "Rafapologists", the "speck you late ers", the "wrist slashers", the "machine gunners" and the new one, the "end is nighers". There are probably other groups which they are card carrying members of, and it gets pretty confusing. I agree with them that there's far too many groups, and it's the same people over and over who keep on joining them. As such from now on I'm going to try my best not to mention the various groups some of them belong to.

Infact just to prove how sincere I am on this, I'm going to create a new group, "the groupies". This new subsection is exclusively for people who are members of multiple organisations and are frankly taking it too far. The chairman of it is Benny the Noon (he's the secretary as well at the moment as it's a fledgling organisation with a low membership), but as people get lumped into it as the season progresses he may be able to pass on some responsibility, delegate it if you will.

[fergieisawhiskeynosedtw@t]

Some interesting points made in the aftermath of a minor spat.

I DO think some posters deserve credit for slightly revising their opinion. For a while it looked like Roy wasn't even going to be given a chance, and some of the aforementioned fans willingness to get behind him a bit more says a lot for their sense of reason. It's too easy on forums to say "he's sh!t and he'll never make it, FACT" and be in a trench from which it's difficult to crawl out of when the bloke wins the golden boot. The forum would be better if all of us were a bit more willing to revise our opinions from time to time. Yes I do include me in that.

The other thing I would say is I'm getting tired of being accused of labelling people and putting them into little groups, pigeon holing them effectively. Most of those accusations seem to be coming from people who actually do belong in a number of different clubs. We've got some posters who are founder members of the "Rafapologists", the "speck you late ers", the "wrist slashers", the "machine gunners" and the new one, the "end is nighers". There are probably other groups which they are card carrying members of, and it gets pretty confusing. I agree with them that there's far too many groups, and it's the same people over and over who keep on joining them. As such from now on I'm going to try my best not to mention the various groups some of them belong to.

Infact just to prove how sincere I am on this, I'm going to create a new group, "the groupies". This new subsection is exclusively for people who are members of multiple organisations and are frankly taking it too far. The chairman of it is Benny the Noon (he's the secretary as well at the moment as it's a fledgling organisation with a low membership), but as people get lumped into it as the season progresses he may be able to pass on some responsibility, delegate it if you will.

qwality!

[Thommo's perm]

How about one superb season 2004/5, one good season 2005/6, one fu'cked up season 2006/7, one bad season 2007/8, one nearly good season 2008/9 and one terrible season 2009/10?

2004/5 fails to constitute a "superb season", we finished below the bitters in the league in a disappointing FIFTH place, only got back into Europe by the back door, and lost FOURTEEN league games, not forgetting we bombed out of the FA Cup to BURNLEY. The whole season was carried by that night in Istanbul, the season and Rafa's reign perceived as better than it actually was by that stumble to success. And I include the run to it, last ditch salvage jobs vs Olympiakos and the ghost goal to win the semi, it was a silver lining on a very dark cloud in a thunderstorm.

To put 04/05 into perspective :

04/05 : lost 19 games
09/10 : lost 19 games

Difference = ISTANBUL. We won more games in the Premiership and better off by FIVE points, yet last season was a disaster. One more goal and we might have been beating Fulham in the final, would that have made last season any less a disaster? Shows how one or two results can completely shift the perception of the whole season/campaign

Depends on what you consider to be superb.
That night in Istanbul preceded by how we got there was, for me superb. That the bitters came fourth and then never got through the qualifiers (saint collina), yet we got through by way of the back door was, for me superb.