Liverpool FC Forum

tonyeh wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

tonyeh wrote:

Benny The Noon wrote:It really is a said state of affairs when it comes to a point where you get attacked for sticking up for our own manager , just because you support something you think has done great things for the club and believe can still do despite a current poor run .

You're being attacked, because you're talking shit.

Benitez isn't Liverpool...he's just a manager. That's all. And he's a manager with considerable limitations, who makes truely baffling decisions, like tonight.

And your constant ra ra bleating is ridiculous and only goes to show you up as a twit. Not an uberfan or Liverpool fan No1, or whatever you think the image is you're trying to portray.

Did we lose?

Did we draw?

Or did we win?

Just because you don't understand something, that does not mean it is wrong.

For god's sake...

We BARELY won! In fact, we very nearly only drew...

...against a fuckin pub team that our under 16's should be beating comfortably.

s@int wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:Let's set the scene:

Minute 60; Liverpool are 1-0 up in a tough game on an even tougher surface. They're already without their star striker and their best player is still recovering from a groin injury which could really do with an op. Due to the tough conditions under foot and the delicate nature of the groin, Rafa subs off his Captain and replaces him with Aquilani - still yet to play more than 20 minutes of football in over 6 months.
Liverpool continue to struggle as the Hungarians play the biggest game of their lives yet still manage to run out 1-0 winners...


Do not even consider trying to tell me that you would have accepted this as a good precautionary move. Do not even think about pretending you wouldn't have crucified him for subbing Gerrard off earlier.

That's the position Rafa finds himself in with numbskulls like you: Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Or :- lets set the scene :

Minute 60; Liverpool are 1-0 up, they take off Lucas and bring on Aquilani who inspires Liverpool to a convincing second half performance and a 4-0 win. Meanwhile in Florence Lyon get a creditable draw meaning  Liverpool only need a 2-0 win to progress.

No one knew if Lyon would equalise mate.

Damned if he doesn't.

Lando_Griffin wrote:

s@int wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:Let's set the scene:

Minute 60; Liverpool are 1-0 up in a tough game on an even tougher surface. They're already without their star striker and their best player is still recovering from a groin injury which could really do with an op. Due to the tough conditions under foot and the delicate nature of the groin, Rafa subs off his Captain and replaces him with Aquilani - still yet to play more than 20 minutes of football in over 6 months.
Liverpool continue to struggle as the Hungarians play the biggest game of their lives yet still manage to run out 1-0 winners...


Do not even consider trying to tell me that you would have accepted this as a good precautionary move. Do not even think about pretending you wouldn't have crucified him for subbing Gerrard off earlier.

That's the position Rafa finds himself in with numbskulls like you: Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Or :- lets set the scene :

Minute 60; Liverpool are 1-0 up, they take off Lucas and bring on Aquilani who inspires Liverpool to a convincing second half performance and a 4-0 win. Meanwhile in Florence Lyon get a creditable draw meaning  Liverpool only need a 2-0 win to progress.

No one knew if Lyon would equalise mate.

Damned if he doesn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever. A win is a win, 1-0 or 90-0.

I could have sworn Gerrard was carrying an injury - who would have come on in your scenario if he'd pulled up?

s@int wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

s@int wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:Let's set the scene:

Minute 60; Liverpool are 1-0 up in a tough game on an even tougher surface. They're already without their star striker and their best player is still recovering from a groin injury which could really do with an op. Due to the tough conditions under foot and the delicate nature of the groin, Rafa subs off his Captain and replaces him with Aquilani - still yet to play more than 20 minutes of football in over 6 months.
Liverpool continue to struggle as the Hungarians play the biggest game of their lives yet still manage to run out 1-0 winners...


Do not even consider trying to tell me that you would have accepted this as a good precautionary move. Do not even think about pretending you wouldn't have crucified him for subbing Gerrard off earlier.

That's the position Rafa finds himself in with numbskulls like you: Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Or :- lets set the scene :

Minute 60; Liverpool are 1-0 up, they take off Lucas and bring on Aquilani who inspires Liverpool to a convincing second half performance and a 4-0 win. Meanwhile in Florence Lyon get a creditable draw meaning  Liverpool only need a 2-0 win to progress.

No one knew if Lyon would equalise mate.

Damned if he doesn't.

That makes no sense whatsoever. A win is a win, 1-0 or 90-0.

I could have sworn Gerrard was carrying an injury - who would have come on in your scenario if he'd pulled up?

No Lando a win is not always a win. Sometimes you need to win on aggregate, sometimes you need to win by a certain number of goals,and yes sometimes you just need to win, but tonight we needed to win by 4-0 just in case Lyon pulled off the miracle of getting a draw in Florence.

What doesn't make sense is putting Aquilani on in the 91st minute.

What doesn't make sense is ignoring the fact that we played badly, with the excuse that a win is a win WHEN WE ARE ALSO NOW OUT of the CL.

We needed a good performance tonight, and we didn't get it.

We needed to get our season and our game back on track and we didn't get it.

We needed to see some passion and some committment from our players and we didn't get it. 

Benny would have had to come on for me if Gerrard had pulled up. I would probably have missed out on putting Dossena on though mate.

Lando_Griffin wrote:Incorrect. Goal difference would not have counted - it's head-to-head results. Ergo, even with a vastly superior goal difference, we would still have had to beat Fiorentina 3-0, thus bettering their 2-0 in Italy.

A win is a win. If it's an aggregate score, then you add both results together for the win/loss/draw.

I suppose I am wasting my time suggesting that the other obvious reason Aquilani didn't come on was the state of the pitch and the potential impact on his ankle if he played for any length of time - a risk worth taking if needed, but not otherwise?

I probably am...

s@int wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:Incorrect. Goal difference would not have counted - it's head-to-head results. Ergo, even with a vastly superior goal difference, we would still have had to beat Fiorentina 3-0, thus bettering their 2-0 in Italy.

A win is a win. If it's an aggregate score, then you add both results together for the win/loss/draw.

I suppose I am wasting my time suggesting that the other obvious reason Aquilani didn't come on was the state of the pitch and the potential impact on his ankle if he played for any length of time - a risk worth taking if needed, but not otherwise?

I probably am...

You are wrong Lando, if Fiorentina had drawn tonight and we had won 4-0 we would only have had to beat Fiorentina by 2-0 to go through.

Teams level on points are separated by:

1) The results of games between the teams in the tie (if tied, by goal difference and then by away goals counting double).

2) Goal difference in all group games.

3) Highest number of goals scored in all games.

4) Highest Uefa ranking over the previous five seasons


So why bring him on for ONE MINUTE and risk him hurting his ankle on that bumpy pitch? Why not waste time by bringing on another sub who's ankle could better stand up to strain of running on that pitch?

bigmick wrote:On the Aquilani substitution, has anybody got any plausible explanation whatsoever? I mean, if he was fit then surely we could have used him earlier. If he wasn't fit then why bother putting him on the bench, and more to the point why bother bringing him on? I'm not asking anyone to agree with the decision, just to offer up a reason which can be construed as remotely realistic? Is it just that we wanted to waste a few seconds maybe?

Very odd.

Lando_Griffin wrote:But why not? Why should he have come on for longer when we won anyway?

And regarding the goal difference, I forgot about the tied option - apologies.

Nevertheless, Fiorentina DIDN'T draw, so it wouldn't have mattered what our score was.

It was obvious that we were lacking in creativity and playing poorly, he might possibly have helped with the creativity while getting much needed match fitness. FFS are we going to spend the rest of the season sayingAquilani can't play in this match because the pitch is not very good, can't play in that match because they tackle hard and can't play in the other game because the weather looks a bit cloudy?

If he is on the bench he should be fit enough to play or he shouldn't be on the bench. Whats the point in him playing when we have nothing left to play for?

Whats the point in playing him for one minute?

Whats the point  The point is we didn't know Fiorentina where going to win, so we should have done everything we could to win by the scoreline we needed. Both for team moral, and to enhance our chances of progressing.

I don't just blame Rafa BTW the players are just not performing either.

lakes10 wrote:just to say,unlucky with the other result, feel very sorry for the players.