Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

Skrtel was tto blame for the goal as much as Benayoun for giving the free kick away. Skrtel was in no mans land and that Aussie c#nt just wandered straight in to score.

[lakes10]

Zonal marking can only work when the players understand what they are doing, the problem with it is if just one player is out of shape or has a lack of understanding (could have been a sub that just come on or a new player that is still trying to understand it) you leave a big hole for the other team to get into.

I think the first time i see it was when Watford used it in the 80's (not sure what they called it) for about a year it was working ok for them but as soon as players started to leave and younger players come in the team it fell apart and they never used it again.

Some years ago Southend used "Ball marking" this was very strang, all the players would make two lines inside the box, as soon as the ball was hit 5 of the player would move towards the ball, this gave the about 4 sec to track the path of the ball and to get ready to block, the other 5 players would spilt two of them would move outside the box to recive the blocked ball, 1 player would move to the goal line to cover the keeper and the last two would stand side by side on the pen spot.

it looked mad, but it did work, I am sure it only worked as the other teams did not understand what was going on but for the few games Southend used it they got 4 goals on the break. Sadlet for them it did not take long for the other teams to work out that if you put a player wide they could end up with a free shot to the top corner as you miss the players near the pen spot.

do i like Zonal marking? not this year.

[Bad Bob]

Zonal marking can only work when the players understand what they are doing, the problem with it is if just one player is out of shape or has a lack of understanding (could have been a sub that just come on or a new player that is still trying to understand it) you leave a big hole for the other team to get into.

I think the first time i see it was when Watford used it in the 80's (not sure what they called it) for about a year it was working ok for them but as soon as players started to leave and younger players come in the team it fell apart and they never used it again.

Some years ago Southend used "Ball marking" this was very strang, all the players would make two lines inside the box, as soon as the ball was hit 5 of the player would move towards the ball, this gave the about 4 sec to track the path of the ball and to get ready to block, the other 5 players would spilt two of them would move outside the box to recive the blocked ball, 1 player would move to the goal line to cover the keeper and the last two would stand side by side on the pen spot.

it looked mad, but it did work, I am sure it only worked as the other teams did not understand what was going on but for the few games Southend used it they got 4 goals on the break. Sadlet for them it did not take long for the other teams to work out that if you put a player wide they could end up with a free shot to the top corner as you miss the players near the pen spot.

do i like Zonal marking? not this year.

Let's not over-complicate things, shall we?  Riera's zone was the front stick and his job is to pick up any man that enters that zone or to deal with the ball of it comes in.  Since there was no man to mark in his zone, ALL he had to do was focus on the ball and head it clear.  He saw it come in, made a half-hearted effort to get a head to it and let his side down by failing to perform the basics.  There's nothing wrong with the system...it was a schoolboy error that let us down last night.

[lakes10]

Zonal marking can only work when the players understand what they are doing, the problem with it is if just one player is out of shape or has a lack of understanding (could have been a sub that just come on or a new player that is still trying to understand it) you leave a big hole for the other team to get into.

I think the first time i see it was when Watford used it in the 80's (not sure what they called it) for about a year it was working ok for them but as soon as players started to leave and younger players come in the team it fell apart and they never used it again.

Some years ago Southend used "Ball marking" this was very strang, all the players would make two lines inside the box, as soon as the ball was hit 5 of the player would move towards the ball, this gave the about 4 sec to track the path of the ball and to get ready to block, the other 5 players would spilt two of them would move outside the box to recive the blocked ball, 1 player would move to the goal line to cover the keeper and the last two would stand side by side on the pen spot.

it looked mad, but it did work, I am sure it only worked as the other teams did not understand what was going on but for the few games Southend used it they got 4 goals on the break. Sadlet for them it did not take long for the other teams to work out that if you put a player wide they could end up with a free shot to the top corner as you miss the players near the pen spot.

do i like Zonal marking? not this year.

Let's not over-complicate things, shall we?  Riera's zone was the front stick and his job is to pick up any man that enters that zone or to deal with the ball of it comes in.  Since there was no man to mark in his zone, ALL he had to do was focus on the ball and head it clear.  He saw it come in, made a half-hearted effort to get a head to it and let his side down by failing to perform the basics.  There's nothing wrong with the system...it was a schoolboy error that let us down last night.

my post was more about Zonal marking than it was about last nights game, as you said last night wasa just a mistake and i dont feel it was down to Zonal marking.


saying that Riera is new to Zonal marking but as you said all he had to do was to get the ball out.

[stmichael]

Generally speaking, it's ironic that we're still having a go at our attack and we've actually scored more goals than united this season. In the last six or seven games we've scored significantly more than them.

The difference is, their defence has been really really mean despite missing Ferdinand and Evra for several games. We have had to move our best defender to fullback and have also been without Skrtel long term, Agger, Insua and Aurlelio for periods of time. We'v ealos made individual errors which have cost us several stupid goals. The Cahill goal was almost identical to the one we conceded against Newcastle.

[alanricouk]

Zonal marking is easy to exploit if you know how. If you have the run on the best defenders, you can beat them for height, and you'll always win the duel.

Still though, we'll keep it, and concede to it again.

care to explain what makes man marking so great then?

Read the thread, you'll learn what zonal marking is

Simple. You know where the man is, and you have the same fair chance of getting to the ball first, as he doesn't have a run on you. As you should know, people running, then jumping have a better height than someone static, then jumping.

It's easy to exploit if you start your runs on the edge of the 18 yard box.

You need a mixture of both really, as all man marking will result in people falling over each other, or some not picking up the right man.

[milou]

Back to zonal marking.. I know I have this doubt before and so it proved costly last night. This is what I observed..

Our players were each marking a zone.. and Everton players were assigned to "obstruct" each of our players in their respective zone. I thought Hyypia was blocked and "man-handled" by lescott.. then in came Cahill who was totally unmarked sneaking into what I thought was Hyypia's zone and had a free header.

If you can't even cover your whole zone due to blocking, isn't there a big risk of creating "free" spaces like what happened last night?

From yesterday incident, I actually thought if "man-handling" & blocking can be done subtly enough not to get fouls and delivery is accurate, then zonal marking has a a big loop-hole.

Thoughts anyone?

Anyone cares to give some answers or thoughts on my "fear" above which so far went unanswered?

[alanricouk]

Back to zonal marking.. I know I have this doubt before and so it proved costly last night. This is what I observed..

Our players were each marking a zone.. and Everton players were assigned to "obstruct" each of our players in their respective zone. I thought Hyypia was blocked and "man-handled" by lescott.. then in came Cahill who was totally unmarked sneaking into what I thought was Hyypia's zone and had a free header.

If you can't even cover your whole zone due to blocking, isn't there a big risk of creating "free" spaces like what happened last night?

From yesterday incident, I actually thought if "man-handling" & blocking can be done subtly enough not to get fouls and delivery is accurate, then zonal marking has a a big loop-hole.

Thoughts anyone?

Anyone cares to give some answers or thoughts on my "fear" above which so far went unanswered?

Yep, thats exactly how it can be manipulated.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Zonal marking is easy to exploit if you know how. If you have the run on the best defenders, you can beat them for height, and you'll always win the duel.

Still though, we'll keep it, and concede to it again.

If that is the case why have Liverpool, since Rafa introduced zonal marking, finished with the most clean sheets for the last 3 seasons?

[alanricouk]

Zonal marking is easy to exploit if you know how. If you have the run on the best defenders, you can beat them for height, and you'll always win the duel.

Still though, we'll keep it, and concede to it again.

If that is the case why have Liverpool, since Rafa introduced zonal marking, finished with the most clean sheets for the last 3 seasons?

Because most don't exploit it like that. Plus, Liverpool effectively play with 6 defenders, and 6 good defenders at that.

Man Utd did it when they raped us 3-0 last season.

[SupitsJonF]

Zonal marking is easy to exploit if you know how. If you have the run on the best defenders, you can beat them for height, and you'll always win the duel.

Still though, we'll keep it, and concede to it again.

If that is the case why have Liverpool, since Rafa introduced zonal marking, finished with the most clean sheets for the last 3 seasons?

Because most don't exploit it like that. Plus, Liverpool effectively play with 6 defenders, and 6 good defenders at that.

Man Utd did it when they raped us 3-0 last season.

They only scored 1 goal before the red card.

[alanricouk]

Zonal marking is easy to exploit if you know how. If you have the run on the best defenders, you can beat them for height, and you'll always win the duel.

Still though, we'll keep it, and concede to it again.

If that is the case why have Liverpool, since Rafa introduced zonal marking, finished with the most clean sheets for the last 3 seasons?

Because most don't exploit it like that. Plus, Liverpool effectively play with 6 defenders, and 6 good defenders at that.

Man Utd did it when they raped us 3-0 last season.

They only scored 1 goal before the red card.

Doesn't matter, thats not the point. Our defence effectively went in to zonal marking for the first cross, and Brown had the run on them, and was first to the ball.

Second goal, Ronaldo ran through zones again, and had the height to exploit static players.

[SupitsJonF]

Wouldn't it be harder to zonal mark with less players on the field?  Especially with one less defending player?

And that 2nd goal would of been tough to mark no matter what formation/system.  No one would of been able to track his movement.

[Bad Bob]

Because most don't exploit it like that.

Well, case closed then.  We're very, very good at zonal marking (as our record reflects) and,as you admit, most teams don't have the nous to exploit it's weaknesses anyway so why would we contemplate binning it?  Just because Riera failed to do his basic job on Monday doesn't mean the system's fatally flawed and teams can score for fun on set pieces.  Like all systems, it has it's strengths and weaknesses (watch MOTD every week to see the weaknesses of man-to-man marking exploited) so it comes down to being well drilled (which we are) and minimizing the opportunities for teams to exploit weaknesses (which we do).  No, our primarily problems are very much at the other end of the pitch and the last thing we need to concern ourselves with is fixing a system that isn't broken.

[we all dream...]

Because most don't exploit it like that.

Well, case closed then.  We're very, very good at zonal marking (as our record reflects) and,as you admit, most teams don't have the nous to exploit it's weaknesses anyway so why would we contemplate binning it?  Just because Riera failed to do his basic job on Monday doesn't mean the system's fatally flawed and teams can score for fun on set pieces.  Like all systems, it has it's strengths and weaknesses (watch MOTD every week to see the weaknesses of man-to-man marking exploited) so it comes down to being well drilled (which we are) and minimizing the opportunities for teams to exploit weaknesses (which we do).  No, our primarily problems are very much at the other end of the pitch and the last thing we need to concern ourselves with is fixing a system that isn't broken.

I couldn't agree more, well said