Liverpool FC Forum

[Paul C]

Oh by the way he's bought 15 under 17's since being at Anfield and 7 of them were brought before 2006 so something should have happened by now

http://www.lfchistory.net/stats_t....InOut=1

[JoeTerp]

How else do you suggest the youth academy be run?  Like I said earlier the problem lies more with Rafa keeping a big squad of "1st teamers" and that is what is really deterring the development of the younger players.

Also, if we do make profit from buying young talent and then selling them off after improving them or proving that they had talent in the first place but just weren't LFC material, you cannot say that the academy is failing. The expectations cannot be produce the next Stevie G every 4 years, that is impossible because there is only 1 Stevie G, I know that we have had Owen, Fowler, and Carra as well, but if Rafa insists on having the big rotational squad without including youngsters in the rotation, then making a couple mil off of each kid every  couple of years is good business as long as it goes into the transfer kitty.

When you consider where Liverpool ranks among the top clubs in the world, the odds that its academy without doing heavy foreign and domestic recruiting would produce a player good enough for its standards at a young age are VERY low.

I hope that the Lucas and Babel policy is our new policy, although it is MUCH more expensive than "taking a punt" on a bunch of random kids ( whom I am sure were very heavily scouted).  The Lucas and Babel policy is risky in that it costs a lot more, but you are also more sure of their abilities. I would like us to look into Nasri, Sahin, maybe Menez, Marek Suchy, or renato augusto. The later names came from the 50 most exciting teenagers list which includes, Pato, Bojan, Giovani dos santos, as well as our Gerardo Bruna and Mihaylov (not sure how he made it), as well as several other players that have been "selling like hotcakes" to the likes of Atletico, Bayern, Chelsea, and Man U.

[burjennio]

JoeTerp Posted on Jan. 19 2008,01:16
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How else do you suggest the youth academy be run?  Like I said earlier the problem lies more with Rafa keeping a big squad of "1st teamers" and that is what is really deterring the development of the younger players.

Also, if we do make profit from buying young talent and then selling them off after improving them or proving that they had talent in the first place but just weren't LFC material, you cannot say that the academy is failing. The expectations cannot be produce the next Stevie G every 4 years, that is impossible because there is only 1 Stevie G, I know that we have had Owen, Fowler, and Carra as well, but if Rafa insists on having the big rotational squad without including youngsters in the rotation, then making a couple mil off of each kid every  couple of years is good business as long as it goes into the transfer kitty.

When you consider where Liverpool ranks among the top clubs in the world, the odds that its academy without doing heavy foreign and domestic recruiting would produce a player good enough for its standards at a young age are VERY low.

I hope that the Lucas and Babel policy is our new policy, although it is MUCH more expensive than "taking a punt" on a bunch of random kids ( whom I am sure were very heavily scouted).  The Lucas and Babel policy is risky in that it costs a lot more, but you are also more sure of their abilities. I would like us to look into Nasri, Sahin, maybe Menez, Marek Suchy, or renato augusto. The later names came from the 50 most exciting teenagers list which includes, Pato, Bojan, Giovani dos santos, as well as our Gerardo Bruna and Mihaylov (not sure how he made it), as well as several other players that have been "selling like hotcakes" to the likes of Atletico, Bayern, Chelsea, and Man U.

Saw Bojan play a a few times this season, what a prospect, he reminds me a lot of Owen when he was that age, he just lifts the crowd when he comes off the bench. Where do Barca find these guys? Messi, Dos Santos,Bojan and  everyones favourite Arsenal player Fabregas - how much is that lot worth?

[Paul C]

How else do you suggest the youth academy be run?  Like I said earlier the problem lies more with Rafa keeping a big squad of "1st teamers" and that is what is really deterring the development of the younger players.

Also, if we do make profit from buying young talent and then selling them off after improving them or proving that they had talent in the first place but just weren't LFC material, you cannot say that the academy is failing. The expectations cannot be produce the next Stevie G every 4 years, that is impossible because there is only 1 Stevie G, I know that we have had Owen, Fowler, and Carra as well, but if Rafa insists on having the big rotational squad without including youngsters in the rotation, then making a couple mil off of each kid every  couple of years is good business as long as it goes into the transfer kitty.

When you consider where Liverpool ranks among the top clubs in the world, the odds that its academy without doing heavy foreign and domestic recruiting would produce a player good enough for its standards at a young age are VERY low.

I hope that the Lucas and Babel policy is our new policy, although it is MUCH more expensive than "taking a punt" on a bunch of random kids ( whom I am sure were very heavily scouted).  The Lucas and Babel policy is risky in that it costs a lot more, but you are also more sure of their abilities. I would like us to look into Nasri, Sahin, maybe Menez, Marek Suchy, or renato augusto. The later names came from the 50 most exciting teenagers list which includes, Pato, Bojan, Giovani dos santos, as well as our Gerardo Bruna and Mihaylov (not sure how he made it), as well as several other players that have been "selling like hotcakes" to the likes of Atletico, Bayern, Chelsea, and Man U.

Ok lets put this into context, Liverpool have bought 15 youngster who haven't featured for Rafa, Arsenal buy youngsters who play in cups games (and knock six past us last season).

If they were good enough for LFC they would be given a chance at some point, and four years down the line non have.

Hope this explains my problem with our youth policy

[stmichael]

Ok lets put this into context, Liverpool have bought 15 youngster who haven't featured for Rafa, Arsenal buy youngsters who play in cups games (and knock six past us last season).

If they were good enough for LFC they would be given a chance at some point, and four years down the line non have.

Hope this explains my problem with our youth policy

To be honest Paul, I don't think it's a question of just playing them in the Carling Cup like Arsenal. I wish it was but the trouble is that Rafa's squad is possibly too big, so he has to use the Carling Cup just to give games to the likes of Sissoko, Voronin, Itandje and even Crouch nowadays. It could be argued this really is a wider issue on the effect of rotation at the club.

However is a youth system only effective if they can bring through youngsters into the first team? I mean considering Man United have won the reserve league for the best part of 10 years they have brought virtually nobody through since the mid 90's. Since then their youth system has been atrocious.

Does United winning it for 3 years out of 6 not prove they have a decent youth setup, however many make it to the first team, especially compared to Arsenal who I can't remember winning it? There's a subtle difference in winning the youth league with your academy players and buying young players for your reserves. Given some of the big flops we've seen at Liverpool in particular, why are these inept players put straight into the reserves whilst our own laguish in the youth teams?

[puroresu]

Winning the FA youth cup does not mean this players are good enough.  For me at that level winning isnt the most important thing.

[JoeTerp]

Winning the FA youth cup does not mean this players are good enough.  For me at that level winning isnt the most important thing.

Its true that winning is not the most important thing, but It would be hard for a team that was full of talent to loose a bunch of games, as you can see from my post on the previous page, it is nearly impossible to make it to two straight youth cup finals without having any of the players make the breakthrough. Unfortunately for us, the player is probably Danny Guthrie, and he plays at a position that currently has the likes of Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas, and at the moment still Momo to compete with for time. And Damien Plessis probably has more "upside" than Danny due to his size.

[ruskiy playmaker]

Starlet secures move to Anfield
By Simon Parker

Mark Lawn says the deal to sell Andre Wisdon to Liverpool is a feather in the cap for City's youth structure
A City teenage starlet has won a dream move to Liverpool.

Andre Wisdom, 14, has joined the Anfield giants in a deal that could prove to be a real money-spinner for the club.

Liverpool have paid an undisclosed fee for the hugely-promising youngster but the T&A understands City will receive a payment up front with further substantial amounts relating to his progress.

Another City youth player is also attracting serious interest from the Premier League, underlining the success of the hard work being put in to the Valley Parade production line.

Youth development officer Peter Horne said: "It's brilliant that what we're doing here is being recognised by clubs at higher levels.

"As far as League Two goes, there's not another club in this division that has had the compensation for youth players that we've received.

"I signed Andre from local junior football and he has just progressed all the time he's been with us.

"We've played him a year up all the time because of his ability. He was playing with the under-15s this season.

"We're very pleased with how far he's come and wish him all the best with this fantastic opportunity."

Joint-chairman Mark Lawn said the deal was a feather in the cap for the City youth structure.

He said: "It's evidence that we've started to produce good youth. This time three years ago it wouldn't have happened, so we must be doing something right.

"Clubs are looking round all over for talent and they've seen what we are producing here.

"Andre wanted to move on and it's a great chance for the lad, so we couldn't hold him back, but if he doesn't make it at Liverpool he's said he will return."

City's youth department have further reason to celebrate after the under-13s returned triumphant from America.

The Bantams side won the Fort Lowell shoot-out in Arizona, rattling in 21 goals in their four games.

City stuffed TMSFC Alliance Gold 6-0 and New Mexico Rush Coyotes 6-1, a match shown live on the internet, to top their group.

The following day they beat Tucson Soccer Academy 1-0 in the last four before another goal rush in the final saw them blast Tanque Verde 8-2.

How many youngsters are we going to sign?  I believe in a couple of years well be rivaling with Arsenal for the best youth academy in England.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport....nfield.

[stmichael]

At the end of the day the English players are getting the same chance in our acadamy as the Spanish/French/whatever lads coming in. And if they are good enough they will push through to the reserves and then again if good enough to the firsts.

IMO this sort of competition doesnt prevent English talent but it helps it. It means lads are playing at better standards at younger ages and their development is being brought on much sooner, where as previously they may well of not got that sort of standard of play until they were lucky enough to maybe make the reserves. The real talent will always come through no matter of the numbers and no matter of what the nationality mix is.

[metalhead]

I havn't been following the youth too much, but I would like to ask a question

Who do you think is good enough to break into the first team in 2 years from our youth players?

[JoeTerp]

in 2 years of the current 18s? I would have to say Pacheco, but he isn't really a youth player because he trains with the reserves even though he is age eligible.  But a big knock on him is going to be his size. But he is silky smooth with the ball, got a very good eye for goal and I can't even tell which foot is his more natural one. 

Others too look out for are Gerardo Bruna, who I haven't seen a lot of because he is training with the ressies but we "stole" him from Real Madrid and he is very highly rated, /Nathan Eccelston, pure goal scorer, Marvin Pourie, very good all around striker from Germany, David Amoo a right winer/striker with pace to burn, Astrit Ajdarevic, a big but creative CM with a nice left peg. Martin Kelly a big right back who trains with the reserves and can play centre have has some promise, and maybe Steve Irwin the captain with a motor on him has a chance of getting called up, but he is no Jay Spearing. Oh and Dani Ayala is eligible for the youth team, but the centre half just got his first start for the ressies and I think is training up there full time now.

The above list is who I predict will be at Melwood next summer.  Hopefully Jordy Brouwer will  finally leave to make way for the attacking talent that will come through

[metalhead]

Any chance of Jay Spearing being good enough for us?

[stmichael]

Her's some clips of Pacheco, from his days in the Barca Youth team alonside Bojan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....rl=http

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....rl=http

Personally, I think it's possible that Pacheco could make an  impact like Owen did in the next 18 months.

[Espionage]

Her's some clips of Pacheco, from his days in the Barca Youth team alonside Bojan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....rl=http

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....rl=http

Personally, I think it's possible that Pacheco could make an  impact like Owen did in the next 18 months.

Really classy finisher.  Looks like a real prospect.

I realise know why Barca were so when we snapped him up.

[JoeTerp]

Any chance of Jay Spearing being good enough for us?

if it was a matter of heart and want he would be a regular starter already.  He certainly has some skills, but his size is pretty major drawback and I am not sure about his pace.  He has switched from CB to DM to an attacking role and has gone through the transition nicely.  He certainly has a high understanding of the game, and when he was taken off yesterday the ressies looked lost for about a half hour even though flynn was playing pretty well.  He certainly has earned a chance to fight for his place to stay here in my opinion.