Liverpool FC Forum

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Wenger beds two or three players into his side every 6 months or so and thats why their players don't look out of place. Benitez on the other hand throws say Leto in and expects him to be a superstar instantly. Give him a run in the side and bring him through gradually rather than 1 game here and then not another game till mid feburary.

[Bad Bob]

Wenger beds two or three players into his side every 6 months or so and thats why their players don't look out of place. Benitez on the other hand throws say Leto in and expects him to be a superstar instantly. Give him a run in the side and bring him through gradually rather than 1 game here and then not another game till mid feburary.

You know, you're generalizations are starting to grate.  Leto's played three games for us so far out of 16 (two Carling Cup matches and a CL match), which is a nice gradual transition into the side.  But, as we saw after the Marseilles match, a section of the support denounced Rafa for playing him so I don't know how you can sit there and expect him to play more, when so many people feel we can't afford to gamble with youngsters in these important games (and every game is considered important, these days).  As for the "expected to be a superstar" comment--complete and utter tosh. 

[JoeTerp]

Wenger beds two or three players into his side every 6 months or so and thats why their players don't look out of place. Benitez on the other hand throws say Leto in and expects him to be a superstar instantly. Give him a run in the side and bring him through gradually rather than 1 game here and then not another game till mid feburary.

You know, you're generalizations are starting to grate.  Leto's played three games for us so far out of 16 (two Carling Cup matches and a CL match), which is a nice gradual transition into the side.  But, as we saw after the Marseilles match, a section of the support denounced Rafa for playing him so I don't know how you can sit there and expect him to play more, when so many people feel we can't afford to gamble with youngsters in these important games (and every game is considered important, these days).  As for the "expected to be a superstar" comment--complete and utter tosh. 

I think that we have seen that Rafa has a lot of trust in Leto, becuase he did pick him for the Cardiff game despite the fact that Leto was cr@p against Marseilles  AND the fact that he could have started Kewell on the left.  He does seem to give foreign youngsters an advantage over the home-grown talent as far as amount of chances he is letting them have (i.e. when he would play Paletta over Hobbs, despite the fact that Paletta was atrocious)  I just hope that Spearing gets a crack at the first team before Plessis.

[stmichael]

i think we have to understand that wenger didint pull these kids out of no where. he had at least 5 years to build them up and teach them how to play within his system. i think rafa is trying to do that and we wot see the results for another 4 years. dont forget the likes of masherano, agger, torres, babel, momo r around the same age as the ppl

The main difference is, Wenger plays a few young players in the Carling and gets praised for developing talent. Rafa does the same and he's rotating again.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

i think we have to understand that wenger didint pull these kids out of no where. he had at least 5 years to build them up and teach them how to play within his system. i think rafa is trying to do that and we wot see the results for another 4 years. dont forget the likes of masherano, agger, torres, babel, momo r around the same age as the ppl

The main difference is, Wenger plays a few young players in the Carling and gets praised for developing talent. Rafa does the same and he's rotating again.

I don't think playing Torres and Crouch and then Crouch and Babel up front is really youth developing.

Wenger puts all his youngsters out, we play Hobbs and El Zhar. The league cup for us is to give the not so regular 1st teamers a chance, i.e. Crouch/Itandje/Lucas or a chance for players coming back from injury the chance to play i.e. Kewell or Arbeloa.

When in reality if we want to be classed as "youth developing" we should play youth. Martin, Darby, Spearing, Hobbs, Threlfall, Putterill, Lucas, Flynn, Leto, Linfield and El Zhar. And then on the bench you can have the experinced 1st teamers like Crouch, Carragher and so on.

[ivor_the_injun]

There's also the point to be made that it's not as if Wenger has paid a pittance for some of these players, only for them to blossom into expensive talent.

Walcott £12m
Van Persie £3m
Senderos £2.5m
Diaby £2m
Diarra £2m
etc, etc

I'm not disputing that he's done a fantastic job in some cases (Fabregas the chief example of his current squad), but the idea that he's just thrown five grand to some lower Bulgarian league team for a squad full of players that he's then brought through to be Premiership quality is just b*llocks. He's taken a hell of a lot of younger players in for £3-£4m, many of whom have been binned off quietly, and alongside these he's made some of the more lavish signings seen in recent years.

£10.5m for Hleb, £8.5m for Eduardo, £7m for Rosicky... they have a pretty expensive squad, contrary to what some may have you believe. And remember expensive flops along the way - £12m for Wiltord, anyone?

[stmichael]

There's also the point to be made that it's not as if Wenger has paid a pittance for some of these players, only for them to blossom into expensive talent.

Walcott £12m
Van Persie £3m
Senderos £2.5m
Diaby £2m
Diarra £2m
etc, etc

I'm not disputing that he's done a fantastic job in some cases (Fabregas the chief example of his current squad), but the idea that he's just thrown five grand to some lower Bulgarian league team for a squad full of players that he's then brought through to be Premiership quality is just b*llocks. He's taken a hell of a lot of younger players in for £3-£4m, many of whom have been binned off quietly, and alongside these he's made some of the more lavish signings seen in recent years.

£10.5m for Hleb, £8.5m for Eduardo, £7m for Rosicky... they have a pretty expensive squad, contrary to what some may have you believe. And remember expensive flops along the way - £12m for Wiltord, anyone?

Agree.

To be honest, I'm sick of hearing about Arsenal's 'youngsters'. They aren't even that young. Almunia, Gallas, Toure, the right back with the sh#t hair, Hleb, Rosicky, Eboue, Gilberto, Eduardo, Flamini, Adebayor. . . . hardly kids are they?

They've got a few in there, and they're very good, but it's not like they're a team full of teenagers.

There was some tw@t on television yesterday calling Eduardo a "junior" and "one for the future". He's 24 and cost about £8m for f#ck sake. Dont mind them getting praise for stuff thats correct but when its bullsh#t like "this team of kids is amazing" it does my head in. 31 year old Gilberto played for the "kids" the other day.

[ivor_the_injun]

Incidentally, Arsenal's policy of not disclosing transfer fees apparently covers up some shocking deals.

According to a journo mate, Almunia cost them in the region of £5.5m, and this was when Lehmann didn't play like Jim Leighton after a stroke.

[woof woof !]

To be honest, I'm sick of hearing about Arsenal's 'youngsters'. They aren't even that young. Almunia, Gallas, Toure, the right back with the sh#t hair, Hleb, Rosicky, Eboue, Gilberto, Eduardo, Flamini, Adebayor. . . . hardly kids are they?

They've got a few in there, and they're very good, but it's not like they're a team full of teenagers.

Good point. Arsenals so called "young guns " are not that young. A London paper the other day mentioned that the average age of the Arsenal team that played us last weekend was 25, hardly what you'd call young.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I personally couldn't give a toss how old the Arsenal "kids" are, i just want to see some of our young lads break through, but I don't see that happening, and a youngster hasn't established himself in the first team since the academy moved over to Kirkby, because before hand the youngsters trained with the seniors and knew the superior players, now they haven't a clue and can't fit in or adapt to the side. Also having manangers who are unprepared to give a young lad a sustained run in the side doesn't help either I suppose.

[hello_red]

Well maybe he dosnt deem some of the youth players good enough and thats why we havnt seen many players get starts. Leto, Insua, Babel, Agger are all gonna be alot more technically proficient than Jay Spearing or Paul Anderson because English youth academys are not upto scratch. Rafa plays youth players quite alot, only a year ago a young buck called Agger cemented himself as first choice centre back alongside Carra. Its all about the up bringing and for the last 10 years we havnt cut the mustered compared to Europe and South America.

We need to improve drastically. You can say Gerrard and Carra came through but that was 10 years ago when the premiership was still largely English and at youth level very cut off from the rest of the world compared to today.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Quality is there, it's whether or not managers are prepared to play the youngsters. If Benitez didn't think Anderson was up to top flight football, why bother bringing him to Liverpool in the first place. Also 2 youth cups on the bounce with Antwi and Hansen the only lads from abroad to be involved in either, shows that it's young BRITISH talent that's around. I watched the Ipswhich-Norwich match today and Ipswhich's squad included 6 of their youth winning side of two years ago, so again it shows the talent is there in England, just modern day managers would rather bring young forigners from abroad because they're cheaper and supposedly "more technically gifted" which is sh!te in itself.

[Bad Bob]

Quality is there, it's whether or not managers are prepared to play the youngsters. If Benitez didn't think Anderson was up to top flight football, why bother bringing him to Liverpool in the first place. Also 2 youth cups on the bounce with Antwi and Hansen the only lads from abroad to be involved in either, shows that it's young BRITISH talent that's around. I watched the Ipswhich-Norwich match today and Ipswhich's squad included 6 of their youth winning side of two years ago, so again it shows the talent is there in England, just modern day managers would rather bring young forigners from abroad because they're cheaper and supposedly "more technically gifted" which is sh!te in itself.

Tell you what...let us know when Ipswich is challenging for the Premiership title and I might think you have a point.  My goodness, you don't half chat rubbish.

[stmichael]

Leto, Insua, Babel, Agger are all gonna be alot more technically proficient than Jay Spearing or Paul Anderson because English youth academys are not upto scratch.

From what I've seen from Insua in those international matches... he could well force his way into the first team quite soon.

[Bammo]

I only caught the MOTD2 highlights but Guthrie looked to be playing really well for Bolton. Does anyone know if he's been on form or was that game a one-off? He's the type of player that we could do with in future - attack minded and good at passing. Of course, that all depends on if he can consistently perform.

I always have the worry with our players going on loan that if they're any good they leave permanently.