Liverpool FC Forum

[murphy0151]

Why we should be above Man United Alex Malone 


I’ve seen the papers and websites as I’m sure you have. “Oh look, it’s the big three at the top again. What a surprise!” they mock.

It’s true. Chelsea, Arsenal and Man United occupy places one, two and three at the top of the Premiership - just as they did last year, albeit in a different order. Liverpool languish in 5th, seemingly destined to be fighting once again for the coveted, but disappointing, 4th spot - and Champions league qualification.

Chelsea, 7 points clear - it has to be admitted - are good value for their lead. The only game they have won that they clearly didn’t deserve to was at Anfield, when the one and only Mike Riley gifted them three points. But other than that, they’ve scored 43 times and conceded only 8 – a worryingly low 'goals conceded' figure that might eventually eclipse the great Liverpool defence of 1978-79 who conceded only 16 goals in 42 games. They have the best goal difference, the best home record and the best away record – all this while losing only one game. Really, there’s no arguing that they deserve to be where they are.

Arsenal too, are deserving of their second place position. 52 goals scored and 14 wins from 22 games (with only 2 defeats) suggests they’re not as potent as last season, but are still a force to be reckoned with. Henry is walking away with the golden boot, while Pires and Ljundberg are back to their best. Funnily enough, Mike Riley’s name comes up again. Would Arsenal still be unbeaten if anyone other than Mike Riley had been refereeing at Old Trafford that October day?

Which brings me to the point of this article - the third placed mob. The ‘great’ (ahem!) Man United, unbeaten in 12 games and always the darlings of the media and the referees. The current table shows them 7 points ahead of Liverpool. It also says they’ve won 12 games, drawn 8 and lost 2. Those are the facts, but these numbers disguise the reality of far too many blatant injustices.

I’ve watched many, many games this season, including most of those involving Liverpool and Man United. There have been a very significant number of injustices in games involving these two teams. “These things even themselves out over a season,” I’ve heard it said, which, to be blunt, is the biggest loads of ****** I’ve ever heard. They don’t. It’s almost statistically impossible for them to do so, but even if they are close - say 52:48 - even that can be the difference between Champions and second place – between champions league and uefa cup – between safety and relegation.

And right now, the bias towards United and against Liverpool is the ONLY reason we languish behind them in the table.

Here are the facts. (with emphasis on the word ‘facts’ not opinion.)

Let’s look at games involving Man United:

August 28th – United one-nil down to Blackburn with a minute to go. A clear handball by Saha in the six yard box lays the ball on a plate to Smith, who equalises.

Sept 20th – United get a non-corner against Liverpool which results in a Silvestre headed goal to squeak them a 2-1 win.

Oct 24th – Wayne Rooney dives - and goes down like a flying pig in the box - at 0-0 against Arsenal. Serial-Old Trafford-penalty-awarder, Mike Riley, gleefully points to the spot, and in a game they never looked like winning, United are gifted the points.

Jan 4th – with the clock ticking down, Tottenham launch a speculative effort from the half way line that Roy ‘Coco’ Carroll throws into his own net. The referee and linesman claim temporary blindness, and that sprinting quickly requires head-down and eyes closed, so it’s not their fault. No goal is awarded and Spurs are robbed. The officials also missed the 20,000 United fans behind the goal holding their heads in horror.

Those are all FACTS - Irrefutable when you look at the replays. Only a United fan would claim that any of these incidents were called correctly.

So, if the referees had made the correct calls, the calculator says that they would have lost to Blackburn and Spurs, and drawn with Liverpool and Arsenal. That’s 2 points instead of the 8 they were actually awarded.

Now, let’s look at Liverpool’s fortunes:

Aug 29th – Luis Garcia scores a goal at Bolton that is CLEARLY on side, but is ruled out. Liverpool, one-nil down at the time, lose the game by the single goal.

Sept 20th – see above

Nov 6th – with Liverpool at home to Birmingham, Muzzy Izzet clearly handles on the line to prevent a goal. The ‘miss’ by the referee also meant that the player remained on the pitch. Liverpool lose the game 1-0.

Nov 20th – at 1-0 down, another Luis Garcia goal is disallowed for offside even though the ball is played off a Middlesbrough defender. Liverpool go on to lose 2-0.

Jan 1st – at 0-0 at home to Chelsea, and totally outplaying them, Liverpool are denied two clear penalties. One when Sinama is wrestled to the ground from behind. The second, as the Chelsea defender clears the ball with his hand that the whole world sees – except of course for one ‘Mike Riley.’ These decisions could have put Liverpool one or two goals up. Instead, they lose one-nil after bossing the game.

So, a defeat at Bolton should have been a draw. A loss to Chelsea should have been a win. A defeat at Man United should have been a draw. Let’s be conservative here and say the Muzzy Izzet decision would have earned us a point (in reality it could well have been 3 against 10 men) and the Boro result stands as they scored 2 anyway.

So, that means the 5 defeats suffered in these games would actually have been three draws, a win and one defeat. That’s 6 points instead of none.

So, if you do the maths, United lose 6 points they currently have, while Liverpool gain 6. That means that instead of United having 44 points, they would have 38. Instead of Liverpool having 37, we would have 43.

WE should be something like 5 points ahead of them, NOT 7 points behind!!

Now, I’m sure anti-Liverpool (or pro-United) fans reading this will claim that you can point out all sorts of bad calls throughout the season that can impact games. But these are CLEAR errors that have been PROVEN to be errors. I’m sure there are some minor incidents I’ve missed, but the ones listed here had a direct impact on the results of those games. I’ve tried hard to remember incidents where United have been hard done by – I honestly can’t remember any. Similarly, I’ve tried to recall incidents where Liverpool have benefited from referees decisions. The only one I can think of is recently against Norwich – Jamie Carragher’s ‘hand ball,’ which I am 100% convinced was ‘ball-to-hand’ as the player was trying to move his hand AWAY from the ball as it hit him. Even the Newcastle game, which we eventually won, saw one of the most off-side goals ever seen awarded to Patrick Kluivert. Thankfully, that blatant error had no bearing on the final result.

In contrast, have Man United had any off-side goals awarded against them? Have they had any opposing defenders punch the ball out of their area or off the goal line? Have they scored any on-side goals that have been disallowed? If they have, I don’t recall them. In fact, things could have been even worse for them as they should have had Van Nistelrooy sent off against Arsenal and Rooney sent off against Bolton. Video evidence, banning them both belatedly for 3 games, proves it. But a belated ban didn’t help Arsenal or Bolton, both of whom lost those games when they should have been playing against 10 men.

So, while Liverpool lie 5th, we should be 3rd and Man United the ones actually in 5th place - and completely out of the title race with 38 points.

It’s also worth mentioning that if all of the above decisions HAD been made correctly, we’d be looking at a Liverpool team only 9 points behind the leaders… not 18.

You’ve probably guessed it. I firmly believe it’s time for video technology to help eliminate not only mistakes by the officials, but clear bias shown towards specific teams….

Specifically, Manchester United.

Alex Malone
Email: alexmalone@thisisanfield.info

I tell you what fellow red men hes got a point there.  alltogether now, who the fuk are man utd, who the ****** are man utd. lol

[The_Rock]

manure sucks.......

The only reason why they get all the lucky breaks (ie.... easy champions league groupings, ref bias, etc...) is becos they are perceived as the most popular club in the world. They might be now, but i reckon it is only a matter of time before they go down.....

[The_Rock]

heres the url...

http://www.thisisanfield.com/columnists0405.php?id=00000061

[Paul C]

Wonder if Stu will now say 'you make your own luck'

[Leonmc0708]

Its an intresting read, and if you read it with you red tinted glasses on, then you want to write to the FA, your loca lMP and the police to complain about the injustice of it all.

HOWEVER, football is great because of the fact it consumes your whole life. If video evidence was around, games would be on for three hours with all the stoppages and boring. And if all controversial decisions where sorted and corrected on the spot then life would be boring.

No more baiting "Bez" the delivery driver who comes in the office about the theatre of penalties or Mike Riley's Manc wallpaper in the living room.

I do not ever want video evidence during a game, we have enough of the gang of idiots who do it after the results. I mean Rooney banned for three games for something that happens every game. It is getting stupid.

[The_Rock]

maybe not video evidance....but maybe we can have 2nd ref checking the video replay and communicating with the ref on the field ........

Or maybe its time to let foreign refs in the premierleague to bring up the standard of the local refs....i can't believe mike riely is still officiating after the chelsea match.....

[115-1073096938]

Its still all ****** though.

Mike Riley is Man Utd fan. Its that simple.

A bad decision tho, is a bad decision. It happenns. Its part of football. When Riley's not involved they even themselves out. The only way i think things would be improved is:

1. Foreign Refs. Not against that at all.

2. Fourth official doing the time keeping. 20 seconds per sub, 20 seconds per goal and however long it takes for any injuries.

No way should video technology be brought in. How can clubs in administration afford this? How can sunday league sides afford this? Can you imagine? Scoring a "goal" like Mendes did then the ref disallowing it, then you calling for your sunday league ref to ask for a video replay on the big screen? Whats more, the ball stays in play, then the other team run down the other end and score a superb goal.

Video technology should be at ALL levels including kids or none at all. Once video technology comes in you are changing the game and the rules to much so that it can't be implimented at lower levels which in my opinion will start the death of the game. If this happens, i will simply stop loving football at the highest level.

[Leonmc0708]

Stu, thats another reason why it should NEVER be brought in. If we have different standards at different levels, the game bacomes a joke.

[Leonmc0708]

I have just seen a prime example of why video refering would be a nightmare.

Villa v Sheff UTd, possible handball to Villa, not given, Sheff Utd up the other end, score goal, possibly offside. Restart game, and Sheff Utd score again within 60 seconds. From Sheff Uts 1 - 1 Villa to Sheff Utd 3 - 1 Villa within the space of around 120 seconds.

If video refereeing was in that game, the handball would still have been getting looked at by the 5th official by the time Sheff Utd had scored the third, and sealed the game.

Now that is what football is about, not big pauses in the game like American Football.

[stapo1000]

good post murphy. i'm sick of refs being afraid to give anything against united.

[L-type]

absolutely great post, but I can't say i didn't know this already.  But i must say i am FOR video ref's. 

Video refs tho should only be used for 3 calls -

Offsides
Ball Crossing the line
Penalties

Therefore the game stays in action untill a potentially game changing call is missed and looked at by the ref watching the monitor.  You don't need to stop the game but you need to have a good way to restart play.

[laza]

You only have to look at a  game like cricket to see that video technology isnt some great saviour.
Now all that happens is that people bitch  about a different umpire plus the umpires on the field are too scared to make a decision

[A.B.]

Injuries and refs have really bottled it is for us this season however even so we're still doing fairly well imo.

As far as scoring goals is concerned, we are ranked 3rd, only Arsenal and Chelsea have scored more goals than us.

We are ranked 17th, only Man Utd,Chelsea,Tottenham and Everton have conceded less goals than we have.

With some quality signings this month I think we can aim at finishing 3rd instead of 4th

[115-1073096938]

absolutely great post, but I can't say i didn't know this already.  But i must say i am FOR video ref's. 

Video refs tho should only be used for 3 calls -

Offsides
Ball Crossing the line
Penalties

Therefore the game stays in action untill a potentially game changing call is missed and looked at by the ref watching the monitor.  You don't need to stop the game but you need to have a good way to restart play.

Right,

1. So everytime a player is offside they have to use a video ref? Sorry, no. This happens on average 20 times a game. Now, say for example its that close you can't decide. One person has one opinion, one has another, then what do you do?

What about if a player is through on goal, he WAS NOT offside, but it is given by the official who makes a mistake? Then what? do you have a drop ball? Hardly fair if the player was through on goal.

What about if the keeper makes a great reflex save from a striker who is offside, it falls to a defender who plays a long ball upfield to a striker who controls it then fires into the top corner. Then what do you do?

Pathetic idea if you ask me.

2. Ball crossing the line, what if the ball doesn't cross the line and the ball was to stay in play, the team who didn't conceed went up the other end and rattled one in, what would happen there? Would you stop play and then bring play back? How ****** do you want this game to get? Also, what happens at sunday league level when there is a decision like this? Do you change the rules specifically for the professionals? Pro rules and amatuer rules? Brilliant, i love your mode of thought.

3. Your last one is an opinion. I disagree with people all the time about this. It won't solve a ****** thing.

You people really p!55 me off. Go and support another boring sport where there are no talking points, the best sides ALWAYS win etc etc.

The other good thing about football, how many would want video refs is Exeter were to go to Man Utd, win 1-0 and score via a goal that never was?

Its ****** rediculous.

I can't believe you idiots want to ruin this game. I was quite calm when i started this post, now i just feel like punching someone.

Another plus point is as someone just made, refs will become to scared to make ANY decision on there own. ITS A ****** DISCRACE!!! 

[Leonmc0708]

As ever Stu, some great points, and some great anger.