Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

what a load of "it's too much like hard work for Gerrard these days."!!!, we was 442 mate, he had to hold back all the time.

So when you play 2 central midfielders in a 4-4-2 they are both told to 'hold back'?

For fu.ck sake have you ever played a game of football lakes?

The concept that a team needs two central midfielders to sit all the time is nonsense.  Fabregas manages to play in a midfield pair in a 4-4-2 and still influence the attack.  Tonight Lucas was sitting, it was he who was collecting the ball from the defence and starting moves off.  If Gerrard was told to sit it would have been him doing that.  He was obviously told to be less offensive than when he plays in front of a midfield two, but no fu.cking way was he told to sit deep tonight.  He just didn't play well.

[lakes10]

The media will probably claim that once again a Liverpool team who rely heavily on Steven Gerrard were saved from FA cup humiliation by their talismanic captain.

The fact is that apart from the goal his performance was an absolute disgrace.  He doesn't chase players down any more, rarely puts in a tackle, he doesn't lead by example and quite frankly looks like he can't be bothered these days.  All season, or at least since it started to go pear shaped, he's looked to me like he's going through the motions.  If I was cynical I'd say his mind is on the world cup given that he isn't going to win the CL or league this season.

hold on mate SG was stuck right at the back, he was told to play so deep in his own have he should have out glives on and gone in goal, he can only play the way he was told to.

That's rubbish, Lakes. Gerrard is a box-to-box player when told to play in the middle, and that's where he was picked to play today, and that's what he did sporadically. Gerrard's failed to get stuck in today where it needed to be done. He never went into 50/50 balls where in previous years he would have blood and thunder. There was no drive from him, and at times he just let players skip past him as if he wasn't there and never bust a gut to track back. Remember, he's our captain, and he's responsible for what goes on with the players out there once they are on that pitch. My guess is that the World Cup is playing heavily on his mind. His mind certainly isn't with us at the moment.

maybe he needs a manager he can trust? or a manager that can talk to the players?

just an idea like.

[Emerald Red]

The media will probably claim that once again a Liverpool team who rely heavily on Steven Gerrard were saved from FA cup humiliation by their talismanic captain.

The fact is that apart from the goal his performance was an absolute disgrace.  He doesn't chase players down any more, rarely puts in a tackle, he doesn't lead by example and quite frankly looks like he can't be bothered these days.  All season, or at least since it started to go pear shaped, he's looked to me like he's going through the motions.  If I was cynical I'd say his mind is on the world cup given that he isn't going to win the CL or league this season.

hold on mate SG was stuck right at the back, he was told to play so deep in his own have he should have out glives on and gone in goal, he can only play the way he was told to.

How do you know how he was told to play?  Just out of interest mate.

He was played as a central midfielder today but it's too much like hard work for Gerrard these days.

what a load of "it's too much like hard work for Gerrard these days."!!!, we was 442 mate, he had to hold back all the time.

Sorry, mate, but I agree with John here. Watch the game again. Apart from Gerrard's goal, his performance was shocking and well below his own standards, and I'm sure Steve will be the first to say it if asked. His touch eluded him at times, and on one occasion he put the back line under serious threat with an attempted bit of flare which backfired on him. Now, if Lucas did that, Lord have mercy, the lad would have nowhere to hide. As a experienced player as Gerrard is, he should know better to pull that kind of sh*t. To lose the ball in the middle like that is where most counter-attack goals come from.

[bigmick]

It's all Gerrards fault. He's injured, has to have an injection before every match, we're switching around his position from week to week to compensate for the fact we've spunked 20 million quid on a current dud central midfielder but that makes no odds, he's a fecking disgrace. I know he flung himself into the box to score the opening goal against Wolves two games ago, and I know he got the equaliser today, but I'm not convinced by that and I don't think anyone else is either. Fecking disgrace he is, I actually feel sorry for Rafa having to deal with him  .

[Emerald Red]

The media will probably claim that once again a Liverpool team who rely heavily on Steven Gerrard were saved from FA cup humiliation by their talismanic captain.

The fact is that apart from the goal his performance was an absolute disgrace.  He doesn't chase players down any more, rarely puts in a tackle, he doesn't lead by example and quite frankly looks like he can't be bothered these days.  All season, or at least since it started to go pear shaped, he's looked to me like he's going through the motions.  If I was cynical I'd say his mind is on the world cup given that he isn't going to win the CL or league this season.

hold on mate SG was stuck right at the back, he was told to play so deep in his own have he should have out glives on and gone in goal, he can only play the way he was told to.

That's rubbish, Lakes. Gerrard is a box-to-box player when told to play in the middle, and that's where he was picked to play today, and that's what he did sporadically. Gerrard's failed to get stuck in today where it needed to be done. He never went into 50/50 balls where in previous years he would have blood and thunder. There was no drive from him, and at times he just let players skip past him as if he wasn't there and never bust a gut to track back. Remember, he's our captain, and he's responsible for what goes on with the players out there once they are on that pitch. My guess is that the World Cup is playing heavily on his mind. His mind certainly isn't with us at the moment.

maybe he needs a manager he can trust? or a manager that can talk to the players?

just an idea like.

I'm tellin ye, it's the World Cup. Gerrard doesn't need a manager to confide in. He doesn't need a manager to motivate him. Gerrard is a rare player who can perform under any kind of manager in any side. The fact that he's Liverpool through-and-through is all the motivation he requires. he's proven it and has nothing left to prove. His head is in other places, or his form has just dipped. Take your pick. I wouldn't go as far as saying that his peak time is over and he's in decline, but if he keeps playing the way he has been, then that will become a posibllity.

Think about it this way: if Rafa grew a set of balls and dropped him (which I think he should) then Benitez would be absolutely murdered in the press for it and with the fans also. It's a case of a player who is now almost as big as the club is, if not actually bigger. LFC fans will not see it that way, but to the outside world: they almost certainly do, especially the press. Watch and see how they write about captain fantastic once again bailing the mightly LFC out of a ditch in the papers tomorrow. I'll bet my bollox on it.

[Emerald Red]

It's all Gerrards fault. He's injured, has to have an injection before every match, we're switching around his position from week to week to compensate for the fact we've spunked 20 million quid on a current dud central midfielder but that makes no odds, he's a fecking disgrace. I know he flung himself into the box to score the opening goal against Wolves two games ago, and I know he got the equaliser today, but I'm not convinced by that and I don't think anyone else is either. Fecking disgrace he is, I actually feel sorry for Rafa having to deal with him.

I know you're actually trying to be sarcastic there, Mick, but the irony is, that everything you said here is nail on the head. Almost.

*feckin keyboard*

[JC_81]

It's all Gerrards fault. He's injured, has to have an injection before every match, we're switching around his position from week to week to compensate for the fact we've spunked 20 million quid on a current dud central midfielder but that makes no odds, he's a fecking disgrace. I know he flung himself into the box to score the opening goal against Wolves two games ago, and I know he got the equaliser today, but I'm not convinced by that and I don't think anyone else is either. Fecking disgrace he is, I actually feel sorry for Rafa having to deal with him.

Who said it's all Gerrard's fault?  A classic case of words getting twisted by someone, but fair enough it's a football forum and people are entitled to twist words and be as sarcastic as they like.  It amuses me.

But hey, lets' brush Gerrard's poor form under the carpet and revert to blaming the usual suspects.  Is it Lucas, Kuyt or Rafa in the firing line tonight Mick.  Go on surprise me.

[bigmick]

It's all Gerrards fault. He's injured, has to have an injection before every match, we're switching around his position from week to week to compensate for the fact we've spunked 20 million quid on a current dud central midfielder but that makes no odds, he's a fecking disgrace. I know he flung himself into the box to score the opening goal against Wolves two games ago, and I know he got the equaliser today, but I'm not convinced by that and I don't think anyone else is either. Fecking disgrace he is, I actually feel sorry for Rafa having to deal with him.

Who said it's all Gerrard's fault?  A classic case of words getting twisted by someone, but fair enough it's a football forum and people are entitled to twist words and be as sarcastic as they like.  It amuses me.

But hey, lets' brush Gerrard's poor form under the carpet and revert to blaming the usual suspects.  Is it Lucas, Kuyt or Rafa in the firing line tonight Mick.  Go on surprise me.

Nobodies "brushing Gerrard's form under the carpet" John, far from it. I actually think there is very likely something in it when people say he's got one eye on the World Cup, his form has been below his best for a while.

It's not so much yourself as Emerald who "amuses" me in the way he desperately clings onto anyone else he can criticise in preference to the manager. That's why I take the p!ss, not because Gerrard hasn't been poor by his standards because he has, but because it makes me laugh the eagerness which some people will put the boot into the captain but will protect the manager at all costs. Yes he's been poor by his standards (Gerrard), but he is injured and he is still scoring vital goals at vital times.

If indeed he has got his mind on other things, who's job is it to refocus him and his teammates? I know I'll get the "he's the captain he shouldn't need motivating blah blah blah" but sometimes everyone does. Put it this way, if someone else was appointed manager of the club tomorrow, someone who Gerrard maybe considers more special, would his performances improve or not? Sometimes players get tired of hearing the same message delivered in the same way, particularly when it isn't working. Anybody who doubts that should listen to Xabi Alonso.

[Emerald Red]

It's all Gerrards fault. He's injured, has to have an injection before every match, we're switching around his position from week to week to compensate for the fact we've spunked 20 million quid on a current dud central midfielder but that makes no odds, he's a fecking disgrace. I know he flung himself into the box to score the opening goal against Wolves two games ago, and I know he got the equaliser today, but I'm not convinced by that and I don't think anyone else is either. Fecking disgrace he is, I actually feel sorry for Rafa having to deal with him.

Who said it's all Gerrard's fault?  A classic case of words getting twisted by someone, but fair enough it's a football forum and people are entitled to twist words and be as sarcastic as they like.  It amuses me.

But hey, lets' brush Gerrard's poor form under the carpet and revert to blaming the usual suspects.  Is it Lucas, Kuyt or Rafa in the firing line tonight Mick.  Go on surprise me.

Nobodies "brushing Gerrard's form under the carpet" John, far from it. I actually think there is very likely something in it when people say he's got one eye on the World Cup, his form has been below his best for a while.

It's not so much yourself as Emerald who "amuses" me in the way he desperately clings onto anyone else he can criticise in preference to the manager. That's why I take the p!ss, not because Gerrard hasn't been poor by his standards because he has, but because it makes me laugh the eagerness which some people will put the boot into the captain but will protect the manager at all costs. Yes he's been poor by his standards (Gerrard), but he is injured and he is still scoring vital goals at vital times.

If indeed he has got his mind on other things, who's job is it to refocus him and his teammates? I know I'll get the "he's the captain he shouldn't need motivating blah blah blah" but sometimes everyone does. Put it this way, if someone else was appointed manager of the club tomorrow, someone who Gerrard maybe considers more special, would his performances improve or not? Sometimes players get tired of hearing the same message delivered in the same way, particularly when it isn't working. Anybody who doubts that should listen to Xabi Alonso.

Stop talking bollox, Mick, and actually go read a few of my post in the match thread. I've had one or two words about the manager also.

[JC_81]

It's all Gerrards fault. He's injured, has to have an injection before every match, we're switching around his position from week to week to compensate for the fact we've spunked 20 million quid on a current dud central midfielder but that makes no odds, he's a fecking disgrace. I know he flung himself into the box to score the opening goal against Wolves two games ago, and I know he got the equaliser today, but I'm not convinced by that and I don't think anyone else is either. Fecking disgrace he is, I actually feel sorry for Rafa having to deal with him.

Who said it's all Gerrard's fault?  A classic case of words getting twisted by someone, but fair enough it's a football forum and people are entitled to twist words and be as sarcastic as they like.  It amuses me.

But hey, lets' brush Gerrard's poor form under the carpet and revert to blaming the usual suspects.  Is it Lucas, Kuyt or Rafa in the firing line tonight Mick.  Go on surprise me.

Nobodies "brushing Gerrard's form under the carpet" John, far from it. I actually think there is very likely something in it when people say he's got one eye on the World Cup, his form has been below his best for a while.

It's not so much yourself as Emerald who "amuses" me in the way he desperately clings onto anyone else he can criticise in preference to the manager. That's why I take the p!ss, not because Gerrard hasn't been poor by his standards because he has, but because it makes me laugh the eagerness which some people will put the boot into the captain but will protect the manager at all costs. Yes he's been poor by his standards (Gerrard), but he is injured and he is still scoring vital goals at vital times.

If indeed he has got his mind on other things, who's job is it to refocus him and his teammates? I know I'll get the "he's the captain he shouldn't need motivating blah blah blah" but sometimes everyone does. Put it this way, if someone else was appointed manager of the club tomorrow, someone who Gerrard maybe considers more special, would his performances improve or not? Sometimes players get tired of hearing the same message delivered in the same way, particularly when it isn't working. Anybody who doubts that should listen to Xabi Alonso.

I know you have been anti-Benitez for a while Mick and I to be honest sat on the fence for some time on that issue.  The Arsenal game was my watershed moment when I completely lost faith in Benitez's methods.  The way the heads went down when we conceded a goal and how the team didn't even fight to get back into the game.  If a team believed in a manager they simply wouldn't perform that badly.  When a team starts doing that then the managers' days are numbered.  I think Benitez will be sacked or walk in the summer.  I'm not convinced getting rid of him mid season would be the best move though.  But that's for another debate and another thread.

As for Gerrard, it just irritates me, as it clearly does Emerald too, that he seems above criticism.  I accept that he's playing with pain killing injections and he's not going to be at his very best.  But he's just not putting in a shift at all, it's unbelieveable how little he runs and tackles these days.  If he's deemed fit enough to pull on the shirt and take to the field then he's fit enough to be putting in more effort than he currently is.  That's my gripe anyway Mick.

[Ben Patrick]

It's all Gerrards fault. He's injured, has to have an injection before every match, we're switching around his position from week to week to compensate for the fact we've spunked 20 million quid on a current dud central midfielder but that makes no odds, he's a fecking disgrace. I know he flung himself into the box to score the opening goal against Wolves two games ago, and I know he got the equaliser today, but I'm not convinced by that and I don't think anyone else is either. Fecking disgrace he is, I actually feel sorry for Rafa having to deal with him  .

This is the point i have made for weeks about Gerrard.
Unbelievable the criticism of him these days 

Aquilani will come good give him time, but our skipper doesnt give a fck ?

Erm watch him celebrate the goals against wolves, you will see a lad that cares.

[LFC2007]

Over and above the performance of the manager there has to be a place for individual standards, and I'm talking specifically in terms of endeavour for the cause. People talk about this being "Liverpool FC and not Rafael Benitez FC", and I wholeheartedly agree. The players owe it to the club - the fans - to give it their all regardless of the manager of the day. An ethos of hard work for the betterment of the club and out of loyalty to the fans is not only essential to success but decent and honourable, and that's why when a player is perceived to be shirking his responsibilities, the fans will direct some of their frustrations at that player, and not exclusively at the manager, ala Heimdall and Lakes.

[Masch79]

I've heard Rafa's told him not to run or tackle in case he gets injured   

The problem with this thread is that none of us really know what injuries the players are carryin. To be fair Gerrard didn't bail us out tonight as I'm not even sure his goal was a shot rather than a pass to Kuyt. If it was a shot & Kuyt hadn't run in then the keeper prob would have saved it. I thought after the goal v wolves SG was on the way back but tonight he was poor. Like Emerald says he is a box to box midfielder in a 4-4-2 so I would have expected more (if he was at a reasonable fitness level).

I can't just put it down to thinkin about the world cup tho, surely he knows he needs to perform to guarantee a startin berth at the WC with players like lennon, milner in great form. Capello likes a holding midfield player so SG is probably either gonna play in the middle instead of lampard or on the left with joe cole on the way back it is not unthinkable imo that Gerrard's place could be under threat if he is not playing well.

Emerald is right that in some ways he seems to have become bigger than the club which is not right for any player and is a symptom of the way the club is being run - no co-ordination / leadership

[NANNY RED]

Gang of .houses today every fecking one of them

[Ben Patrick]

I hear what people are saying but i still think that alot is to do with systems, instructions and the way the team is set out etc.
Why do we almost always start games at 2 mph ?
That cant be the players thinking...oh we will wait until we go a goal down and now we well try.
I think its the cautious manager saying dont go mad, the game lasts 90 minutes you need to be fresh at the end, sorta like when he rests players in sept.

For me there are not many players that i would believe might not give there all, Babel and Voronin are in there but cant see any regulars being like that if i am honest.