Tactics 2012/13

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Benny The Noon » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:32 pm

Really good read this, from Jonathan Wilson:


The Question: what were the tactical trends of 2012-13?

"The point of training," César Luis Menotti said, "is to increase the speed at which one can be precise." It is a truth that seems written into the internal rhythms of football: each new form is developed and modified, made faster, until it reaches a maximum pace at which a new innovation arises to replace it. What Bayern Munich have done this season is to take the Barcelona model and to improve it, not so much with technical innovation than with physical.

Barcelona were the first team fully to exploit the possibilities of the modified offside law. It stretched the effective playing area, giving players more space, decreasing physical contact and so readmitting small, technically accomplished players to the game. With fouls increasingly drawing cards, it meant that the likes of Xavi, Andrés Iniesta and Lionel Messi could thrive playing a possession-based passing game that they coupled with a stifling pressing enabled by their supreme fitness.

But just because small players can do something, it does not mean that that same thing isn't better done with big players, if they are capable of the same levels of technical expertise. Bayern perhaps haven't hit quite the same levels of filigree passing as Barça at their peak, but they are not far off, and what was striking in the Champions League semi-final was how tired – how weak – Barcelona looked. Of course, it is not entirely fair to compare a team on the rise with one coming to the end of its cycle – one is hungry, desperately eager for success, the other is sated, lacking the drive to suffer to stay in a game – but equally it can hardly be denied that Bayern's players are bigger than Barça's. (The issue of whether Barça are finished is a tricky one: history suggests great sides, once toppled, take time to recover, but the elite teams have never before had such financial advantages as they do now; it seems likely that Barça's fall will only be relative).

That Borussia Dortmund's pace and aggression similarly unsettled Real Madrid in the semi-finals seemed to confirm the advantage the Bundesliga has in terms of physique. That's not to say that pace will always overcome technique and it may be that Barça at their best would still have overcome Bayern at their best. All sides have an optimum rhythm, and the tiki-taka of Pep Guardiola's side probably required a slower tempo than the fractionally more direct style of Bayern. It may also be that successful teams become more conservative – certainly Spain have under Vicente del Bosque – and that that slows the pace. Either way, the prospect of Bayern, already superb, developing further under Pep Guardiola, evolving a supercharged tiki-taka, is awe-inspiring.

But it would be wrong to portray Bayern's triumph as a defeat for tiki-taka. Rather it is an evolution of tiki-taka. Like Barça, Bayern press high up the pitch (arguably Jupp Heynckes's greatest achievement has been to persuade Arjen Robben and Franck Ribéry to perform their defensive duties diligently) and seek to control the ball. Over the past two seasons, in the top five leagues in Europe, only Barça have had higher possession and pass completion stats than Bayern. The basic philosophy is still one of bielsisme (the style of Athletic Bilbao's Marcelo Bielsa), although the more direct architect of both is Louis van Gaal. The pressing, perhaps, is more focused – certainly that is true of Dortmund, who also play to the same basic philosophy – and the outlook more vertical (which actually makes it even more true to the ideals of Bielsa) than Barça's but the central tenets are the same.

What Bayern also have is a greater variety of attacking options, something they showed against Barça. When two possession sides meet, obviously, only one can dominate the ball. Bayern accepted over the course of the semi-final that they would be the more reactive side, sitting deep and springing rapid counterattacks, something they could do because of the pace through the side and the capacity of Bastian Schweinsteiger, Dante and, especially, Javi Martínez to release long passes. (Again, this shouldn't necessarily be taken as a criticism of Barça: for four years they made Plan A so good it would have been a waste of effort to develop a Plan B; so good, in fact, that even Bayern decided to modify their approach against them). In that, the role of Mario Mandzukic, a player so fit that even Felix Magath seemed nonplussed by him, was vital.

And that hints at two other trends this season: the growing importance of the deep-lying midfielder as a playmaker and the increasing variety of the central striker.

That the holding player – or one of the two holding players – has a creative function is not exactly new but the implications of that do seem to have been particularly relevant this year. As Jürgen Klopp gleefully noted after Dortmund had had the better of Real Madrid in the group stage of the Champions League, if you shut down Xabi Alonso, the rest follows. Then he did it again in the semi-final. That Dortmund could not neutralise Martínez with the same efficiency was one of the reasons Bayern got the better of them in head to heads this season (a supremacy that was greater even than a record of three wins and two draws in five games suggests).

Ilkay Gündogan performed a similar role for Dortmund, receiving the ball deep and setting the tempo. Andrea Pirlo did the same for Juventus. Sergio Busquets does it for Barcelona and Michael Carrick for Manchester United. That's one of the reasons the central creator now has a defensive role, which has been one of the impressive aspects of Juan Mata and Oscar for Chelsea this season. Midfields have never been so split – it's common to think in four bands rather than three – and yet the need for universality, for holding players to create and for creative players to shut down, has never been greater.

But it is centre-forwards who are probably the most notable feature of this season. While Spain and Barcelona have shown it's possible to play without a traditional striker at all, more traditional types have flourished. Perhaps the most old-fashioned of the lot is Robert Lewandowski, who in style resembles a cross between Ian Rush and a classic target man. In front of a fluent midfield he has been a reference, always pulling into the spaces between centre-backs and full-backs, yet also capable of playing with his back to goal, holding the ball up.

Radamel Falcao and Edinson Cavani, in slightly differing ways, are examples of complete centre-forwards, players who are gifted finishers but also have the creative ability to pull wide or drop deep, to generate chances themselves. Zlatan Ibrahimovic is a target man with the skills of a No10: forwards increasingly have to be a blend, capable of finishing and creating or at least finishing and holding the ball up. Some even don't have to be that good at finishing. Mandzukic may have scored 15 goals in the Bundesliga this season but he is barely a striker at all in the conventional sense: rather he is a fearsome spearhead, driving defenders back to create space for the midfield and leading the press with terrifying energy.

Neither Mandzukic nor Lionel Messi are anything like the sort of forward who may have been typical 15 or 20 years ago, and yet they could hardly be more different from each other: the one neat and skilful, the other raw and aggressive. Yet both lead teams who ostensibly play to the same philosophy and – in a slightly crude way, for nobody would realistically suggest that Mandzukic is better than Messi – their differences highlight the contrast between Barça and Bayern: there are different interpretations of the general bielsista theory.
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Postby jacdaniel » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:01 pm

With all the talk of Suarez, Reina and new signings, i've not seen much discussion about our tactics for the 2013 / 14 season.

last year it was clear that Skrtel was desperately failing to adapt to Rodgers preferred system.  He struggled with the high defensive line, doesn't have much discipline or leadership and he struggled with passing the ball out from the back.

As a result, Carra was called upon to bring some leadership to the back 4.  That went we had to ditch the higher line due to Carra's lack of pace.  Once the high line is ditched, its also much harder for the team to press higher up the field.  This also affected our tika taka approach because the team in general was too deep to take it out from the back.

So going into this season, will we see a return of the high line and pressing game?
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Postby Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:27 pm

The pressing from the forwards will be there

The high line will be dependent on the signings made in terms of a new CB - at the moment it would be suicide - the same as last season. The possesion game will be a priority again but hopefully not in the way we tried at the start of the season with far too many little sideways passes with no threat. During the second half we used a bit more pace and directness when needed - mixed it up a bit - using plan A or B or C or whatever was required.

The top teams are all flexible depending on the opposition - that's what we need to be - its great playing pretty football but as Arsenal have discovered over the years at time you need to dig and be a bit dirty and hump the odd ball high and handsome and use a bit of physical power.
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Postby jacdaniel » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:42 pm

Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:27 pm wrote:The pressing from the forwards will be there

The high line will be dependent on the signings made in terms of a new CB - at the moment it would be suicide - the same as last season. The possesion game will be a priority again but hopefully not in the way we tried at the start of the season with far too many little sideways passes with no threat. During the second half we used a bit more pace and directness when needed - mixed it up a bit - using plan A or B or C or whatever was required.

The top teams are all flexible depending on the opposition - that's what we need to be - its great playing pretty football but as Arsenal have discovered over the years at time you need to dig and be a bit dirty and hump the odd ball high and handsome and use a bit of physical power.


Do you think Toure and Agger would be able to play a high line?  I've not really seen enough of Toure over the last season or 2 to judge what he can or can't do. 

And yeah, I agree that we shouldn't entirely go back to the possesion football we tried at the start of last year.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:46 pm

No not at all - not many teams can play a high line in the prem hence why they don't.

You need a top quality CB with great pace and great organisational skills - they are quite rare. It is a very dangerous tactic and you leave yourselves open to a ball played around the corner or over the top.
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Postby jacdaniel » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:52 pm

Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:46 pm wrote:No not at all - not many teams can play a high line in the prem hence why they don't.

You need a top quality CB with great pace and great organisational skills - they are quite rare. It is a very dangerous tactic and you leave yourselves open to a ball played around the corner or over the top.


Its going to be interesting to see who he gets in, if anybody else for CB. 
I think that position alone could really dictate how we'll play next season. 

With a player like Carra, as well as he played last season, we had to accommodate him at times by sitting a lot deeper.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:55 pm

Sitting deeper is far better - especially when he wants the fullbacks to push so high
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:58 pm

you can play a high line if your midfield puts plenty of pressure on the ball, but playing a high line and allowing opposition players time and space to pick out a pass is kamikaze tactics.
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Postby Rush Job » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:43 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:58 pm wrote:you can play a high line if your midfield puts plenty of pressure on the ball, but playing a high line and allowing opposition players time and space to pick out a pass is kamikaze tactics.


Exactly, its not just the defence I dont think we have the right team to play a high line consistently. Plus we have always struggled
when the oppo play deep we have a quick forward line so space in behind isnt a bad thing.
IMO I dont think a straight tiki taka approach will work in the prem even if we had the money to buy the right players and it does worry me slightly that we seem to be targeting so many short ar$e slightly built players.
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