Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

.  stats dont tell the whole story, downing puts plenty of good crosses in and it`s not his fault that we dont get enough numbers into the area or our strikers dont get on the end of them.
no winger is going to have amazing stats the way we are set up, 90% of crosses are essentially percentage balls, even if maradona or cruyff cross the ball they are essentially putting the ball into an area and hoping their team mate gets on the end of it before a defender does, our strikers thrive on through balls played to feet they arent suited to fighting it out with center halves to get on the end of crosses like a shearer or aldo.

Apart from contradicting yourself with the,' he puts plenty of good crosses in yet they are percentage balls' you're getting hung up on the point of crosses as though this is his only duty for the team. Stats don't say much but his assists and goals in two seasons actually leave a lot to be desired, especially as he had big Andy to 'cross' the ball to last year.

It's obvious you've limited the pinnacle of his abilities to crossing, and that's about it - yet in an ideal Rodgers team I'd guess a player in that position could do with being a little more dynamic.

I think you have inadvertently made a decent case for selling him, if the right offer came in.

can we upgrade? yes, but imo there are other area`s of the team that need looking at first.
a CB who can head the ball is an absolute must, this has got to be our number 1 priority, our inability to defend high balls is not just an achilles heel its a millstone around our neck.
the next priority imo is an athletic, powerful center mid who can cover the ground quickly, whenever a game becomes stretched gerrard and lucas just arent athletic enough to cope, gerrard had a good game in the derby but when hendo went off and the game became stretched he faded badly, we need legs in midfield.
after that i think we need to bring in a forward who has a physical presense to bring on if we are chasing the game or struggling to break down a packed defence (like against west ham, reading, everton, west brom etc), then we need to look at the right back position and then, finally, maybe we start looking at downings position. 

Agreed with every word.

but does this mean we can't discuss Downing even though his position isn't priority?

how is `he puts plenty of good crosses in yet they are percentage balls` a contradiction?
yes every cross has a bit of hit and hope in it but you still need to put them in the right area`s, if someone flashes a ball right across the 6 yard box that is obviously a better cross than the one that goes 30 feet in the air and with one bounce ends up going for a thrown in on the far side.
all a wideman can do is put the ball in the right area`s then it`s up to the forwards.
and i obviously havent limited his abilities to crossing, if you bothered reading my post i discussed how good he was good at knocking the ball around, good defensively and unlike many wingers doesnt run down blind alleys.
you`ve obviously got a bee in your bonnet over downing and thats fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but rodgers clearly doesnt agree with you, he picks downing week in week out and downing recently revealed that the manager wants him to stay.
brendan obviously see`s something you dont.
i just find it odd that people are whinging about downing when there are other area`s of the team that need attention more urgently.

[Thommo's perm]

For all round application and general attitude he needs to be shown the door promptly .Liverpool could do without players who
generally look disinterested .

I dont think its that hes disinterested or doesn't apply himself, its just that hes a average player. Downing doesn't have the talent to be playing in one of the most creative positions on the pitch especially as we insist on playing him on the right hand side where hes even more ineffective.

I disagree.
I happen to think he is an above average player and possibly a very good one. The problem is he hasnt got the will or the bottle to more than coast through the majority of games, just doing enough to convince people that he will do something special soon. He reminds me of Heskey or Pennant, players who had undoubted talent but, because they were guaranteed a place, took their foot off the gas and eased up. They ended up disliked and even hated by the fans because they clicked on eventually that a player who doesnt give 100% is a liability.
This is why I want rid, because he will never reach his potential or push himself that extra yard because he doesnt have to, but more importantly, because he doesnt want to.

[devaney]

Ffs he has been substituted in over 30% of the games he has started for Liverpool. Surely that must tell even his mother something

[Benny The Noon]

It tells you that he played 90 mins for 70% of the games ?

[parchpea]

I think the fact that Downing has featured so regularly says more about where we are
as a club than him personally.

The lad wouldn't get a sniff at the top end of this league but features every game here.

We will know we are moving forward when players like him are 3rd pick off the bench.

[devaney]

I find it somewhat bemusing that certain defenders of the very average Downing have previously demanded a sugar daddy buys LFC as soon as possible and spends a fortune on the best players in Europe with the hope of rapid success. In the next breath the same individuals are coming to the defence of a player that is a long way from top four or title winning standard and simply does the absolute minimum to satisfy the management. The same individuals are even suggesting that it is acceptable to expect Downing to only manage 90 minutes 70% of the time.

[Benny The Noon]

Im really unsure how anyone can connect a "sugar daddy" with Downing ?

Obviously if we could afford better players then Downing would leave

And what certain people need to remember that just because they believe a player is "long way from top four standard" doesnt actually mean its a fact - its just an opinion

What you could possibly look at is that Downing has been part of a front 3/4 that have outscored most teams this season and has shown top 4 form since Jan ( ironically since Downing returned to the starting line up ) and if its anything that is stopping us from being in the Top 4 its players at the back and the defending and not players like Downing.

I think he has so far statiscally outperformed the three wide men from the title winning team - what does that suggest i wonder.

And nowhere has it been suggested that Downing can only "manage" 90 mins 70% of the time - there are various reasons why he has been subbed in the past ( majority last season when he was subbed off for Carroll ) .

[Benny The Noon]

I think the fact that Downing has featured so regularly says more about where we are
as a club than him personally.

The lad wouldn't get a sniff at the top end of this league but features every game here.

We will know we are moving forward when players like him are 3rd pick off the bench.

In the coming years he will be part of the squad who will come of the bench when required or start cup games or Europa games and as a squad member will be useful.

He currently gets picked on merit. Until someone better than him arrives or other players show better form then Downing will start.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Im really unsure how anyone can connect a "sugar daddy" with Downing ?

Obviously if we could afford better players then Downing would leave

And what certain people need to remember that just because they believe a player is "long way from top four standard" doesnt actually mean its a fact - its just an opinion

What you could possibly look at is that Downing has been part of a front 3/4 that have outscored most teams this season and has shown top 4 form since Jan ( ironically since Downing returned to the starting line up ) and if its anything that is stopping us from being in the Top 4 its players at the back and the defending and not players like Downing.

I think he has so far statiscally outperformed the three wide men from the title winning team - what does that suggest i wonder.

And nowhere has it been suggested that Downing can only "manage" 90 mins 70% of the time - there are various reasons why he has been subbed in the past ( majority last season when he was subbed off for Carroll ) .

thats a good point benny, what f##ked us this season was the start that we had, a lot of fans like to point the finger at downing but he was hardly involved, the regulars in our side back then were the likes of allen, wisdom, sterling, shelvey, sahin, suso etc.
never mind the team downing didnt even make the bench a lot of the time, the manager told him he could go.
he got back into the team as a makeshift LB when we had injuries and turned the managers opinion of him around with his performances.
if anything our upturn in form started when the likes of downing and hendo started getting more game time.

[Thommo's perm]

I think the fact that Downing has featured so regularly says more about where we are
as a club than him personally.

The lad wouldn't get a sniff at the top end of this league but features every game here.

We will know we are moving forward when players like him are 3rd pick off the bench.

In the coming years he will be part of the squad who will come of the bench when required or start cup games or Europa games and as a squad member will be useful.

He currently gets picked on merit. Until someone better than him arrives or other players show better form then Downing will start.

And who knows, after that he could end up being part of the groundstaff, or even the head kitman?

[Benny The Noon]

Excellent input.

Get on the phone to BR now

[devaney]

Im really unsure how anyone can connect a "sugar daddy" with Downing ?

Obviously if we could afford better players then Downing would leave

And what certain people need to remember that just because they believe a player is "long way from top four standard" doesnt actually mean its a fact - its just an opinion

What you could possibly look at is that Downing has been part of a front 3/4 that have outscored most teams this season and has shown top 4 form since Jan ( ironically since Downing returned to the starting line up ) and if its anything that is stopping us from being in the Top 4 its players at the back and the defending and not players like Downing.

I think he has so far statiscally outperformed the three wide men from the title winning team - what does that suggest i wonder.

And nowhere has it been suggested that Downing can only "manage" 90 mins 70% of the time - there are various reasons why he has been subbed in the past ( majority last season when he was subbed off for Carroll ) .

thats a good point benny, what f##ked us this season was the start that we had, a lot of fans like to point the finger at downing but he was hardly involved, the regulars in our side back then were the likes of allen, wisdom, sterling, shelvey, sahin, suso etc.
never mind the team downing didnt even make the bench a lot of the time, the manager told him he could go.
he got back into the team as a makeshift LB when we had injuries and turned the managers opinion of him around with his performances.
if anything our upturn in form started when the likes of downing and hendo started getting more game time.

It is all about opinions and personally I think you are giving our Stewie more credit than he deserves. Gerrard, Carragher, Suarez, Henderson, Coutinho and Sturridge are the key reasons why we have improved since the turn of the year. Downing has played a part but it has been minimal compared to the other players I have mentioned. He has improved from a pathetically low base and that is all I will give him credit for. It doesn't impress me when the manager has to go as far as telling him he can fk off before he actually starts to make an effort and contribute.

[Thommo's perm]

Excellent input.

Get on the phone to BR now

"Heres Arl Stuey picking the litter up. Alright Mr Downing?"
*Hello lads. I remember the days when I used to bomb down that wing and funny little Benny the Beaut used to cheer me on: "Go Stuart, show them what you can do. Youre here on merit!" The legs have gone now but Ive still got the same precision passing I had back then"

[Benny The Noon]

Downing has been part of the reason as well - it can be denied as much as possible but he has been and its why at times he has kept his starting place whilst someone like Sturridge has been benched

Sturridge has had some shockingly bad games for us since he arrived - Sunday one of the worst.

As for the manager telling him to "f*ck off" - Downing was actually only getting chances in the Europa league and not the prem - when given the chance alongside Henderson he has done as well as Henderson and certainly was an improvement on the early season form hence why we have improved since he arrived in the starting line up ( along with Coutinho etc )

But for a team that has struggled defensively all season long I'm surprised you put Carra in there as we have leaked goals on a regular basis since he returned to the team ?

So we have improved our attacking output yet our defensive end has got worse !? Yet Carra gets more credit than Downing ? Why ?

[Benny The Noon]

Excellent input.

Get on the phone to BR now

"Heres Arl Stuey picking the litter up. Alright Mr Downing?"
*Hello lads. I remember the days when I used to bomb down that wing and funny little Benny the Beaut used to cheer me on: "Go Stuart, show them what you can do. Youre here on merit!" The legs have gone now but Ive still got the same precision passing I had back then"

You're wasted on here.