Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

And we really all believe you go Anfield. 

I'm not really bothered either way if you believe it or not.

What was the down under jib at Benny, failed to refute the argument so had to attack the poster instead?

[Kenny Kan]

.

Only one play has more assists for us this season

He you are going to show the door - best ensure you can replace that

He's actually joint second with Suarez on 5 assists. And two of them came last week against a hapless Geordie outfit - now you're proclaiming him to be the assist king, when prior to that he had a whopping 3 all season.

Coutinho has manged 4 already. So has Henderson, Sterling even has 2 and he's hardly featured this year.

If you're going to play the stat card to try and back up your 'we need him' slant; have a look at more stat:

minutes per goal - a whopping 671
Shooting accuracy - 28%

Our worst stats for a regular attacker. That's poor.

Then, if you try and watch the game with your eyes without relying on those stats, you'll actually see why those stats are that poor when merely watching him.

Credit where it's due, he actually fared a lot better for a handful of games after Rodgers lambasted him publicly, since then, he's reverted to type (all of the above).

I guess they only show the prem games down under

Stay on your meds benny you're not ready to come off them.

[Benny The Noon]

And we really all believe you go Anfield. 

I'm not really bothered either way if you believe it or not.

What was the down under jib at Benny, failed to refute the argument so had to attack the poster instead?

Attack ? Do you not live down under then ?

[Kenny Kan]

What does that have to do with the discussion?

Stay on those meds.

[Benny The Noon]

.

Only one play has more assists for us this season

He you are going to show the door - best ensure you can replace that

He's actually joint second with Suarez on 5 assists. And two of them came last week against a hapless Geordie outfit - now you're proclaiming him to be the assist king, when prior to that he had a whopping 3 all season.

Coutinho has manged 4 already. So has Henderson, Sterling even has 2 and he's hardly featured this year.

If you're going to play the stat card to try and back up your 'we need him' slant; have a look at more stat:

minutes per goal - a whopping 671
Shooting accuracy - 28%

Our worst stats for a regular attacker. That's poor.

Then, if you try and watch the game with your eyes without relying on those stats, you'll actually see why those stats are that poor when merely watching him.

Credit where it's due, he actually fared a lot better for a handful of games after Rodgers lambasted him publicly, since then, he's reverted to type (all of the above).

I guess they only show the prem games down under

Stay on your meds benny you're not ready to come off them.

My meds ?

You have posted just the stats from the prem games - add another 2 goals and 4 assists from other games puts him on 5 goals and 9 assists

That's more than Young , Valencia and Nani combined to use a comparison

So for someone who has "reverted to type" ( whatever that means ) he has actually had a decent end product for us this season. Not outstanding etc but decent.

[Benny The Noon]

What does that have to do with the discussion?

Stay on those meds.

Meds ? What meds ?

I asked if they just showed the prem games down under ( where you live ) because that's all you quoted in regards the stats - prem games

[Kenny Kan]

End product? 

3 goals in the league, end product?     

Yeah, righto.

[Benny The Noon]

End product? 

3 goals in the league, end product?     

Yeah, righto.

So only the league counts then ?

[Kenny Kan]

End product? 

3 goals in the league, end product?     

Yeah, righto.

So only the league counts then ?

Make it the whopping 5 then  it only brings his ratio down even further with the amount of cup games he's played in.

End product & Stewart Downing don't belong in the same sentence. End of.

While I'm at it, a little lesson in idioms.

So for someone who has "reverted to type" ( whatever that means ) 

revert to type
if someone reverts to type, they return to their usual behaviour after a period of behaving in a different, usually better, way After several weeks without saying a rude word to anyone, he seems to have reverted to type.  http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/revert+to+type

[devaney]

The latest Downing discussion clearly shows what some supporters are beginning to accept as an acceptable standard which surprises me given their desire for a rich sugar daddy to provide instant success..

Downing has improved since very late December and that was partly due to BR telling him he could leave in January if he wanted to. Prior to that Downing ponced around as if he owned the club.

Before Downing joined Liverpool he had considerable International and Premiership experience and for his first 15 months at Liverpool he was nothing short of a disgrace and very few would argue with that except possibly Downing's mother !! You can argue that it takes time to settle but just how long did this lad need. We paid a high price for an experienced player and we expected him to quickly start making an impression. Compare his stats with Cortinho and Sturridge who have both done more than Downing in just a few months. 

Downing made a very serious contribution towards Kenny's demise and certainly didn't help Andy Carroll's case considering he was bought to provide ammunition for Andy which he failed to do regularly.

Downing featured in 36 games (started in 28) last season and didn't have one goal or one assist to his name. During his career at Liverpool Downing has been substituted  in more than 30% of the games he has started. Argue that it was tactical if you really want to but the real reason is that he simply wasn't doing the job that he is paid to do. Downing was appalling and that should not be overlooked. He has improved but from a very low base and I am amazed that some supporters are actually willing to accept that he is good enough to play on the wing for Liverpool FC. My standards are considerably higher than that. When I look at Stevie Heighway and Stuart Downing I find it extremely difficult to accept that they were both employed to do the same job at Liverpool. Downing against tough opposition disappears. Heighway on the other hand revelled in it !!

[Kenny Kan]

Excellent post.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

The latest Downing discussion clearly shows what some supporters are beginning to accept as an acceptable standard which surprises me given their desire for a rich sugar daddy to provide instant success..

Downing has improved since very late December and that was partly due to BR telling him he could leave in January if he wanted to. Prior to that Downing ponced around as if he owned the club.

Before Downing joined Liverpool he had considerable International and Premiership experience and for his first 15 months at Liverpool he was nothing short of a disgrace and very few would argue with that except possibly Downing's mother !! You can argue that it takes time to settle but just how long did this lad need. We paid a high price for an experienced player and we expected him to quickly start making an impression. Compare his stats with Cortinho and Sturridge who have both done more than Downing in just a few months. 

Downing made a very serious contribution towards Kenny's demise and certainly didn't help Andy Carroll's case considering he was bought to provide ammunition for Andy which he failed to do regularly.

Downing featured in 36 games (started in 28) last season and didn't have one goal or one assist to his name. During his career at Liverpool Downing has been substituted  in more than 30% of the games he has started. Argue that it was tactical if you really want to but the real reason is that he simply wasn't doing the job that he is paid to do. Downing was appalling and that should not be overlooked. He has improved but from a very low base and I am amazed that some supporters are actually willing to accept that he is good enough to play on the wing for Liverpool FC. My standards are considerably higher than that. When I look at Stevie Heighway and Stuart Downing I find it extremely difficult to accept that they were both employed to do the same job at Liverpool. Downing against tough opposition disappears. Heighway on the other hand revelled in it !!

stats dont tell the whole story, downing puts plenty of good crosses in and it`s not his fault that we dont get enough numbers into the area or our strikers dont get on the end of them.
no winger is going to have amazing stats the way we are set up, 90% of crosses are essentially percentage balls, even if maradona or cruyff cross the ball they are essentially putting the ball into an area and hoping their team mate gets on the end of it before a defender does, our strikers thrive on through balls played to feet they arent suited to fighting it out with center halves to get on the end of crosses like a shearer or aldo.
as a team how many balls do we win in either box from crosses? is it any wonder that downings stats arent anything to write home about when we havent got anyone in the entire team that cant win a header, never mind in the forward line.
downing is doing a decent job, dont get me wrong he`s no john barnes or peter thompson but he gets up and down, helps the defence out (remember when suso was out wide early on in the season? remember how exposed our fullbacks were?), he doesnt give the ball away cheaply and he is comfortable knocking it around.
can we upgrade? yes, but imo there are other area`s of the team that need looking at first.
a CB who can head the ball is an absolute must, this has got to be our number 1 priority, our inability to defend high balls is not just an achilles heel its a millstone around our neck.
the next priority imo is an athletic, powerful center mid who can cover the ground quickly, whenever a game becomes stretched gerrard and lucas just arent athletic enough to cope, gerrard had a good game in the derby but when hendo went off and the game became stretched he faded badly, we need legs in midfield.
after that i think we need to bring in a forward who has a physical presense to bring on if we are chasing the game or struggling to break down a packed defence (like against west ham, reading, everton, west brom etc), then we need to look at the right back position and then, finally, maybe we start looking at downings position.

[bunglemark2]

Good post....well said.

[Benny The Noon]

Agree - well said

[Kenny Kan]

.  stats dont tell the whole story, downing puts plenty of good crosses in and it`s not his fault that we dont get enough numbers into the area or our strikers dont get on the end of them.
no winger is going to have amazing stats the way we are set up, 90% of crosses are essentially percentage balls, even if maradona or cruyff cross the ball they are essentially putting the ball into an area and hoping their team mate gets on the end of it before a defender does, our strikers thrive on through balls played to feet they arent suited to fighting it out with center halves to get on the end of crosses like a shearer or aldo.

Apart from contradicting yourself with the,' he puts plenty of good crosses in yet they are percentage balls' you're getting hung up on the point of crosses as though this is his only duty for the team. Stats don't say much but his assists and goals in two seasons actually leave a lot to be desired, especially as he had big Andy to 'cross' the ball to last year.

It's obvious you've limited the pinnacle of his abilities to crossing, and that's about it - yet in an ideal Rodgers team I'd guess a player in that position could do with being a little more dynamic.

I think you have inadvertently made a decent case for selling him, if the right offer came in.

can we upgrade? yes, but imo there are other area`s of the team that need looking at first.
a CB who can head the ball is an absolute must, this has got to be our number 1 priority, our inability to defend high balls is not just an achilles heel its a millstone around our neck.
the next priority imo is an athletic, powerful center mid who can cover the ground quickly, whenever a game becomes stretched gerrard and lucas just arent athletic enough to cope, gerrard had a good game in the derby but when hendo went off and the game became stretched he faded badly, we need legs in midfield.
after that i think we need to bring in a forward who has a physical presense to bring on if we are chasing the game or struggling to break down a packed defence (like against west ham, reading, everton, west brom etc), then we need to look at the right back position and then, finally, maybe we start looking at downings position. 

Agreed with every word.

but does this mean we can't discuss Downing even though his position isn't priority and the other small fact that this is the relevant thread?