Liverpool FC Forum

[Lando_Griffin]

Reina did everything he could, and had he run back, he'd have looked a tit as the ball would have just rolled past him. It's not his fault, if anything, it's Riise's for being totally caught out of position and putting JC and Finnan under pressure.

Oh, and it was a cracking cross, aswell.

I dont really think that its Riise's fault, as we play with wingbacks and he has to have the confidence to be able to go forward.  In all honesty we have the personel to deal with that situation, it was a bullsh!t cross that bounced in the worst possible place.

As soon as I saw that goal I thought FFS: argueably Riise, Sammy, Carragher, Finnan and Reina are at fault, but they didnt really do anything wrong.  It was a harsh and undeserved goal, but it happens....

Exactly - I just meant that IF someone had to be blamed, it would have to be Riise.

[Espionage]

Back on the topic, no - you're not on your own Bigmick.

Finnan is struggling, and I'm not convinced it's anything to do with the playing personel.

Siting Gerrard's removal from the right hand side just doesn't fit, as Garcia - probably our least defensive player - had many matches at   right midfield in Rafa's forst season, and Finnan was immense.

He is playing how I would have expected him to when he was awaiting a charge over his traffic accident.

Could it be that he is having personal problems, which unlike a Police investigation, is affecting his performance?

WHatever the reason, I hope he sorts it out soon, as aside from being a bloody magnificent player, he is by all accounts, a bloody good man aswell.

Good luck Steve.

I said in another thread that I was puzzled with the way that Pennant has been used this season.  I thought that he struggled against Blackburn as his final ball was terrible.  Other then that it doesnt really make sense why we would have got him if we intend to play Gerrard there the whole time (barring injury to Momo/Alonso).  I must say that I was expecting a dip in form from Finnan as the season goes on as its pretty hard to maintain the terrific form he has had over the last two.
I think that Finnan still has one more season as automatic first choice at right back.  Next season I expect that we will either sign someone big, or preferabely we will see an Agger-Hypia situation repeated with Palleta and Finnan. 

I am hesitent to say that this is becasue Finnan is past his best as he is getting older/slower/etc.  You cant forget general positioning principles or how to tackle, his pace is still there to be called on, but it seems like sometimes he is just slow to react.  This would lead me to conclude that he is fatigued.  He has played a hell of a lot of games since the start of the season, I cant actually remember one that he has missed in the last couple of weeks, and for a wingback that is alot of running to do.

[stmichael]

For those that haven't seen the goal, here's the link:

McCarthy Strike

It looks to me as though Riise (our LB in the first half, before he switched spots with Aurelio) was caught well upfield.  Emerton produced a crisp pass to Bentley down our left flank, forcing Hyypia to charge across.  Bentley's quick cross for Nonda (??) got over Carragher's head, bounced over Finnan's and fell nicely to McCarthy to slot home.

Individual errors were no doubt made on this goal and it'll take someone more expert in defensive duties than me to highlight them.  From my perspective though, a few things are apparent:

1) the entire back line was caught cold by the pace of the counterattack: a crisp Emerton pass followed by an early cross.  All four were scrambling back madly and, thus, failed to either prevent the cross or cut it out before it reached McCarthy.

2) Finnan might have done better with the ball.  He seemed to be in no man's land--caught between helping Carragher with Nonda or tracking McCarthy at the back post.  He also didn't seem to anticipate the flight of the ball well and got caught underneath the bounce.  In fairness to him, he was sprinting back full tilt and didn't have a lot of time to compose himself and cut out the danger.

3) Reina also looked caught in no man's land.  I'm not sure if he was coming to close Nonda down or whether he thought he could cut out the cross himself.  In either case, he was off his line and scrambling back when it fell to McCarthy.

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left.  Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all? 

Exactly. The whole defence was at fault for their goal, not just Finnan.

Infact their goal symbolised our defence's problems this season. First Aurelio gave the ball away. Then Riise got caught in no man's land. Then Sami got dragged out of position and failed to cut out the cross. Then Carra and Finnan were left with a man each buit neither of them got into a position where they could win the ball. Then Reina panicked and rushed off his line giving McCarthy an empty net to tap into.

Good defending is all about good decision making and for this particular goal none of the players involved made the right decision. They're playing badly as individuals and as a unit.

[coddy]

Someone gonna mention Alves??? he seemed to be the main man to take over from Finnan. I hope we get him because Finnan is on easy street at the moment, not enough competition for his place. JC maybe the only man to take his place long term.

[Bad Bob]

For those that haven't seen the goal, here's the link:

McCarthy Strike

It looks to me as though Riise (our LB in the first half, before he switched spots with Aurelio) was caught well upfield.  Emerton produced a crisp pass to Bentley down our left flank, forcing Hyypia to charge across.  Bentley's quick cross for Nonda (??) got over Carragher's head, bounced over Finnan's and fell nicely to McCarthy to slot home.

Individual errors were no doubt made on this goal and it'll take someone more expert in defensive duties than me to highlight them.  From my perspective though, a few things are apparent:

1) the entire back line was caught cold by the pace of the counterattack: a crisp Emerton pass followed by an early cross.  All four were scrambling back madly and, thus, failed to either prevent the cross or cut it out before it reached McCarthy.

2) Finnan might have done better with the ball.  He seemed to be in no man's land--caught between helping Carragher with Nonda or tracking McCarthy at the back post.  He also didn't seem to anticipate the flight of the ball well and got caught underneath the bounce.  In fairness to him, he was sprinting back full tilt and didn't have a lot of time to compose himself and cut out the danger.

3) Reina also looked caught in no man's land.  I'm not sure if he was coming to close Nonda down or whether he thought he could cut out the cross himself.  In either case, he was off his line and scrambling back when it fell to McCarthy.

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left.  Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all? 

Exactly. The whole defence was at fault for their goal, not just Finnan.

Infact their goal symbolised our defence's problems this season. First Aurelio gave the ball away. Then Riise got caught in no man's land. Then Sami got dragged out of position and failed to cut out the cross. Then Carra and Finnan were left with a man each buit neither of them got into a position where they could win the ball. Then Reina panicked and rushed off his line giving McCarthy an empty net to tap into.

Good defending is all about good decision making and for this particular goal none of the players involved made the right decision. They're playing badly as individuals and as a unit.

Fair comment. For what it's worth, Rafa has come out and criticized his central defenders for the goal: reading between the lines, it seems he didn't want Sami to shift over to Bentley but stay central so that both he and Carragher had a chance to cut out the cross.

[CardinalRed]

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left.  Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all? 

Good spot Bad Bob, we do really seem to have a "Dracula" thing going on with these crosses this season, b*gger me if I can work out why?

                                           

[account deleted by request]

Someone gonna mention Alves??? he seemed to be the main man to take over from Finnan. I hope we get him because Finnan is on easy street at the moment, not enough competition for his place. JC maybe the only man to take his place long term.

Before the season I was desperate for us to sign Alves. Hes fast, tricky, can cross, tackle and pass. Now I would rather we signed someone else because hes also very small. Teams are playing on Finnan and Aurelio's weakness in the air and would do the same with Alves, who's basically a dwarf.

I would prefer the Man City fullback now ,Mica Richards I think his name is. He looks a good player and is good in the air as an added bonus.

[red37]

Someone gonna mention Alves??? he seemed to be the main man to take over from Finnan. I hope we get him because Finnan is on easy street at the moment, not enough competition for his place. JC maybe the only man to take his place long term.

Before the season I was desperate for us to sign Alves. Hes fast, tricky, can cross, tackle and pass. Now I would rather we signed someone else because hes also very small. Teams are playing on Finnan and Aurelio's weakness in the air and would do the same with Alves, who's basically a dwarf.

I would prefer the Man City fullback now ,Mica Richards I think his name is. He looks a good player and is good in the air as an added bonus.

no arguments from me there saint. besides, Alves has penned a new deal and if he wasnt much change out of £12 million before...its way beyond rafa's budget. Richards wouldnt be easy to land either but for me he represents the better deal for us, bearing in mind the reasons youve given above.

[red37]

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left.  Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all? 

Good spot Bad Bob, we do really seem to have a "Dracula" thing going on with these crosses this season, b*gger me if I can work out why?

                                           

isnt this just simply a consequence of zonal defending and the tightest margins of error should it fail to be implemented correctly...each of them has a 'space' to control. from what i understand, a problem arose where Riise failed to prevent the ball leaving his: Sami had wandered into his neighbours: and Reina just decided to launch himself into thin air too early...that and the flight/bounce of the ball caught everyone out..again. is it misfortune time after time? or is it lack of communication between them all? or does this marking space theory stand up at all in the Prem....just an idea.

[bigmick]

This goal seems like a carbon copy of a few we've conceded this season from crosses from the left (Galatasay and Everton come to mind) so something's clearly not working when our back four shifts left.  Anyone up for analyzing the way these things are supposed to be defended for the edification of us all? 

Good spot Bad Bob, we do really seem to have a "Dracula" thing going on with these crosses this season, b*gger me if I can work out why?

                                           

isnt this just simply a consequence of zonal defending and the tightest margins of error should it fail to be implemented correctly...each of them has a 'space' to control. from what i understand, a problem arose where Riise failed to prevent the ball leaving his: Sami had wandered into his neighbours: and Reina just decided to launch himself into thin air too early...that and the flight/bounce of the ball caught everyone out..again. is it misfortune time after time? or is it lack of communication between them all? or does this marking space theory stand up at all in the Prem....just an idea.

Not so red. Zonal defending only applies from set-plays. In open play teams just defend normally.

[kazza]

Daniel Alves has revealed that he has opened talks with Sevilla over an improved contract.

The 23-year-old, who can operate at full-back or on the right of midfield, has developed into one of Spanish football's star performers in recent seasons and is now being tracked by a number of Europe's biggest clubs.

He joined Sevilla from Brazilian outfit Bahia back in 2002 and has been a fixture in their first-team virtually ever since.

His superb displays for the Spaniards - including a man-of-the-match showing in last year's Uefa Cup final against Middlesbrough - have seen him find his way on to the radars of the likes of Liverpool, Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Currently contracted to Sevilla until 2011, the Primera outfit have rejected all advances for the South American and now plan to reward him for his progress.

Alves, who did express a desire to join Liverpool last summer, insists he is happy to sign a fresh deal at the Estadio Sanchez Pizjuan and feels an agreement will be reached in the not too distant future.

"It is true, I have started talks and I want a quick solution to close the subject as soon as possible," he said of talks on a new deal.

"I believe that we will reach an accord and am not worried about it.

"I am happy at Sevilla because the club have always treated me sensationally."


****************

Bad news on the Alves front. We should have gone the extra mile for him when we had the chance. He is one for the future.

[account deleted by request]

Glad I timed my post about Alves right - I usually find iv slagged them off just before we buy them
Mica Richards it is then! He would cost us at least 6million but will be good cover for Finnan and hes definately one for the future.

[tel]

Finnan misjudged the ball and the bounce, but what the fark was Reina doing going for a ball that barely bounced in his box?

Totally out of position.

I was more upset when Finnan got pushed off the ball by that midget Osman against the scum.

[Espionage]

Finnan misjudged the ball and the bounce, but what the fark was Reina doing going for a ball that barely bounced in his box?

Totally out of position.

Is what I wrote in the first page of this thread.

In all fairness Reina was in exactly the right position for defending the cross if the first man hadnt missed the ball.  He had to do that, and rely that the ball wouldnt bounce and even make it to McCarthy.

If you analysis where Reina was when the ball bounced, he was in perfect position to defend if the first striker had controlled it.  If Reina had stayed on his line and it didnt bouncehe would have been totally out of position.  All goal-keeping if calculated risks, and I think that the chances of it bouncing over Finnan's head straight onto the foot of McCarthy were pretty low.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFJr0sFGc4

[Sabre]

Alves, who did express a desire to join Liverpool last summer, insists he is happy to sign a fresh deal at the Estadio Sanchez Pizjuan and feels an agreement will be reached in the not too distant future.

"It is true, I have started talks and I want a quick solution to close the subject as soon as possible," he said of talks on a new deal.

"I believe that we will reach an accord and am not worried about it.

"I am happy at Sevilla because the club have always treated me sensationally."

Alves just have showed the desire to leave Sevilla, and had good words for Liverpool, Real Madrid weeks later and anybody interested If any I'd say he had the willing of joining Real Madrid.

Back on topic, Finnan isn't on his best form. In the chain of mistakes I saw in Blackburn's goal, his mistake wasn't the biggest one. His game wasn't that bad. I found much more worrying other mistakes.

So not his best form? I agree. Worried? not much.