Liverpool FC Forum

[woof woof !]

As for Rafa , maybe you should have started another thread  ,but I'm glad you didn't , the forum gets enough sh'it threads already .

so i am indeed talking sh!t then?

in that case read my signature

Syrup of Figs Sarge , a good cure for constipation . 

i'll take that as a yes, but lucky you i am in a good mood today

OK son ,feel free to come back when you're not in such a good mood .   

[Glofut]

There were alot of people throughout last year - particularly around January if I remember rightly - who were beginning to say quite angrily that if SG couldn't commit to LFC he should go. And the conversations after that had been about how our team would 'manage' without him. Now excuse me if I am being obtuse on this (which is not my normal experience, so...), but I was convinced we would be fine without him, regardless of who else we brought in. Rafa is building a TEAM, in which no one individual should overly dominate. Its simple and it places great emphasis on the idea of the sum of parts being far greater than individual components. One we should all be familiar with.

Now I see as clearly as the next that SG is more often than not PHENOMONAL. When things are going badly, he drives us on, he surges through defences and yes, he is almost irreplaceable. But he wasn't much like that last year, he sulked and traipsed off after many games in which he was rarely doing his best. It was only when we got past Olympiakos that he lifted his head (yes, I know about that goal, but rememeber that comeback was not just all about him). Up to that point, SG had been as much a liability as anything else during the season... especially the effect he was having on other players. And last year we made two finals (one in Cardiff, cant remember that other one... er...), and only missed out on 4th by the finest of margins.

Nobody is denying the quality of SG. As I think back, he has to be the best midfielder Ive ever seen play in red. But if there came a time when he felt he had to go, LFC would NOT fall away. If he left, or had left, someone else would rise to the role he has as leader on the pitch. It is THAT which I think people are worried about losing as much as his ability. Give us 5 or 6 more years, as long as Rafa or someone of his quality is leading us, a new stadium and a proper, well developed fan base abroad, and we could be absolutely dominant, with or without SG, and with or without Chelski. Team ethic is what its all about. We do that very well.

[Sabre]

Hi Sarge, I like newbies posts when are valuable as your case, may I just suggest to not use "capisce" and this things? valid opinions don't hurt, telling "do you understand the obvious" might do so.

Overall I agree your point (which is the relevant thing) about that without Gerrard we'd still be Liverpool. By this I'm not implying he's not important, he's the best player IMHO, but the others are not thugs.

[stmichael]

steven gerrard is the best midfielder in the world at the present moment imo.

i said after the boro game on the first day that gerrard would score over tewnty five goals this season and would also get voted the pfa player of the year. i don't think i'll be far wrong.

[JBG]

I'm not downplaying Gerrard's role this season: he has been unquestionably our most important player.

What I'm saying us, however, other players, Hyppia, Crouch, Carragher and Finnan have also played important rolls.

Love him or hate him, people cannot deny that Steven Gerrard had an unsettling effect on the team last year, such an effect that it probably cost the side anywhere from 5-10 points, in my opinion.

People should not underestimate Benitez' capabilities. For example, the Valencia team lost Mendietta when he took over, and back then Mendieta was the best player in Europe, as important to Valencia as Gerrard is to Liverpool. This was potentially a devastating blow, but Benitez overcame it and built an even better side. I have no doubt he would have done the same with Liverpool had Gerrard left. For example, Benitez would have been in poll position to sign Essien had Gerrard joined Chelsea, and there would have been ready money available to sign a top class right winger as well.

I'm delighted Gerrard is still here and he's the team's most important player, but we have some other good players as well and Benitez is a top bracket manager, and I feel Benitez would have overcome his departure.

[66-1112520797]

I'm not downplaying Gerrard's role this season: he has been unquestionably our most important player.

What I'm saying us, however, other players, Hyppia, Crouch, Carragher and Finnan have also played important rolls.

Love him or hate him, people cannot deny that Steven Gerrard had an unsettling effect on the team last year, such an effect that it probably cost the side anywhere from 5-10 points, in my opinion.

JBG I know and understand what your saying and agree with you that Benitez is a top bracket manager , also the likes of Cara , Finnan and Hyypia have been immense.

But I would just like to add, come the end of the season Gerrard will gain us 5-10 points on his own, now that his head is clear and he is soley concerntrating on his football. He will probably carry on doing this for years to come and sometimes in football players would be considered priceless to there teams, and for me Gerrard is one of these.(Priceless).

[115-1073096938]

Vieira has now left a massive void for Wenger to fill and there performances show how much he has been missed already half-way through a season.

Same with Manyoo Keane has moved on and now they will have to start seriously scoping the market if they ever want to be where they were during the 90's.
The difference between Manyoo and Arsenal is Manyoo have better players mostly in the other positions.

Now if you take Gerrard out of the Liverpool team I reckon that it would have a  similar effect to that of  Arsenal's current team. Its obvious they miss Vieira and it would DEFINATELY be obvious if we lossed Gerrard.
We would be able to cope without him if he got injured for a month or so , we have proven that before but if were to lose him on a permanent basis that would be a massive blow. That shows, when during the summer all Liverpool fans were biting there nails in panic , scampering round on the net, tv and news papers to find out whether he (Gerrard) was staying or going.
Rafa has since said that was the best bit of business he'd EVER done, and nobody can tell me that the likes of Essein , Ballack or Lampard etc could fill his boots.
1) Because he is the most complete footballer in the UK if not Europe and         
   has more impact on his team than any other player.

2) He is Liverpool born and bred, therefore playing in that red shirt would mean         
   more to him than any other player ie Essein - Ballack. Let me re-phrase that
   I think that gives him and the likes of Cara an extra 10% to there game.

About Carragher and Gerrard being born and bread which gives them an extra 10%, I'd go as far to say for Carragher its an extra 25%.

He's not a great player but he seems to be for us... I genuinely believe if he was in any other team he'd be good but not class. For us though we all know what he's about and the system he's playing in suits him down to the ground. I wouldn't swap him or Gerrard for anyone.

[bigmick]

Some people on here need to read whats been posted and stop trying to fill in blanks. Nobody who suggested that steven Gerrard was vital to our cause said or implied that we were a one man team. Where did that come from? Of course Hyppia, Carra, Reina, Crouch etc etc are vital to our cause aswell, but Gerrard is the one player who would be the hardest to replace. Mendietta? JBG do me a favour. At Valencia he was a top player but we are talking here about somebody who is MOM practically every week. THE best midfield player in the Premiership and any talk of Michael Essien, good player though he is being anywhere near the equal of Gerrard is miles off the mark.
Sometimes when you have something you don't realise how lucky you are. Many fans on here are in danger of falling into that bracket with some of our players. If it's not Luis Garcia that's rubbish, it's Steven gerrard being eminently dispensible. Sooner or later Gerrard will either retire or move on. Tell you what, when he does we can scour the whole of World football and then we'll see how replaceable he is.
As a footnote to Sarge. I don't speak Spanish/Portugese or whatever language "Capiche" or whatever it was you posted. I suspect though it means I was talking b0ll0cks. It certainly wouldn't be the first time but do me a favour, tell me next time in English eh? To come back on the guts of your point. As football is a game in which you start with 11 players, clearly by definition every player is replaceable. If Gerrard is injured or sold we ain't going to start with 10. The issue here is whether you can replace with like for like quality and drive. The last word is quite an important one. Carvallio is a good centre-half but would he replace John Terry? I don't think so and I don't think any other midfield player in the World would replace Steven Gerrard for Liverpool either. Without him there is no question in my mind we would be below Tottenham and somewhere around and about Arsenal's points total today. One other thing, people who talk of the fact that we replaced Rush, Souness, Dalglish etc etc forget to add that we were a much better team then. As I recall we weren't so hot at replacing John Barnes, Peter Beardsley etc etc. Capiche? do me a feckin' favour. 

[115-1073096938]

We'd replace him with Robert Earnshaw and Damien Francis.

[dawson99]

mick, no offence but mendietta at valencia was the same as stevie here. he was the best player in the world in his position.
No one player is bigger than the team, not even stevie (altho im sooooo happy he is with us, the guy is a legend alredady)

no one is saying hed be easily replaceable, but it could be done and wed still be a force without him.
its a mute issue tho, hes staying, so lets change subject

[bigmick]

We'd replace him with Robert Earnshaw and Damien Francis.

Ah feck off Stu   

[Sarge]

As a footnote to Sarge. I don't speak Spanish/Portugese or whatever language "Capiche" or whatever it was you posted. I suspect though it means I was talking b0ll0cks. It certainly wouldn't be the first time but do me a favour, tell me next time in English eh? To come back on the guts of your point. As football is a game in which you start with 11 players, clearly by definition every player is replaceable. If Gerrard is injured or sold we ain't going to start with 10. The issue here is whether you can replace with like for like quality and drive. The last word is quite an important one. Carvallio is a good centre-half but would he replace John Terry? I don't think so and I don't think any other midfield player in the World would replace Steven Gerrard for Liverpool either. Without him there is no question in my mind we would be below Tottenham and somewhere around and about Arsenal's points total today. One other thing, people who talk of the fact that we replaced Rush, Souness, Dalglish etc etc forget to add that we were a much better team then. As I recall we weren't so hot at replacing John Barnes, Peter Beardsley etc etc. Capiche? do me a feckin' favour. 

capisce=comprende=comprehend=do you understand= ada faham= swigaloo=iyee=wakarimasu ka= whatever

to my dearest bigmick..
it was just a "friendly" remark... no hostility intended as I have no authority to "question" your undivided allegience to liverpool.
I was just saying that despite gerrard godly role in this club, we mustn't get too obssessed or too "attached" with a particular player. Some of Ferarri fans (F1) for example are rooting for Schumacher rather than the team itself, or Guus Hiidink in Korea; the Koreans despise the current squad (post Hiidink)so much and asked the country's president to persuade Hiidink to come back at all cost.
I am with you on the John Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge etc. issue and I agree that Gerrard will be remembered equally and fairly. In addition to your point of us being a better team then, this liverpool team are going towards a very similar direction. As i recall, we had 8 or 9 different "gerrards" at that particular time.
I am here to give other players fair share for their contribution and not directing the spotlight to just one man.
Peace out bigmick. My apologies if you felt "violated". I am just gonna eat a big slice of the humble pie now.

As for you Sabre.. how's sociedad (am i correct? you a sociedad fan?) doing nowadays? Heard that a big match is around the corner.

[Ace Ventura]

Some people on here need to read whats been posted and stop trying to fill in blanks. Nobody who suggested that steven Gerrard was vital to our cause said or implied that we were a one man team. Where did that come from? Of course Hyppia, Carra, Reina, Crouch etc etc are vital to our cause aswell, but Gerrard is the one player who would be the hardest to replace. Mendietta? JBG do me a favour. At Valencia he was a top player but we are talking here about somebody who is MOM practically every week. THE best midfield player in the Premiership and any talk of Michael Essien, good player though he is being anywhere near the equal of Gerrard is miles off the mark.
Sometimes when you have something you don't realise how lucky you are. Many fans on here are in danger of falling into that bracket with some of our players. If it's not Luis Garcia that's rubbish, it's Steven gerrard being eminently dispensible. Sooner or later Gerrard will either retire or move on. Tell you what, when he does we can scour the whole of World football and then we'll see how replaceable he is.
As a footnote to Sarge. I don't speak Spanish/Portugese or whatever language "Capiche" or whatever it was you posted. I suspect though it means I was talking b0ll0cks. It certainly wouldn't be the first time but do me a favour, tell me next time in English eh? To come back on the guts of your point. As football is a game in which you start with 11 players, clearly by definition every player is replaceable. If Gerrard is injured or sold we ain't going to start with 10. The issue here is whether you can replace with like for like quality and drive. The last word is quite an important one. Carvallio is a good centre-half but would he replace John Terry? I don't think so and I don't think any other midfield player in the World would replace Steven Gerrard for Liverpool either. Without him there is no question in my mind we would be below Tottenham and somewhere around and about Arsenal's points total today. One other thing, people who talk of the fact that we replaced Rush, Souness, Dalglish etc etc forget to add that we were a much better team then. As I recall we weren't so hot at replacing John Barnes, Peter Beardsley etc etc. Capiche? do me a feckin' favour. 

To me that about sums it up.

To replace Stevie would be a thankless task no matter what the money.

He has moved onto a different level this season (probably now his head is clear)
He is playing with a smile on his face, scoring goals, dominating games and is either mom or one of our best players every time he pulls on the red shirt.

The whole team deserves massive credit for the way they have developed the consistency this season as does the manager.
Anyone with any sense knows players come and go, but someone with the influence our skipper has comes along maybe once a decade.
We should all count ourselves lucky that Steven Gerrard is a lfc player and hope that he is for the next 7-10 years.

[JBG]

BigMick: just because Mendietta is now an average player now at Middlesboro shouldn't cloud your judgement. 4 years ago he was the best player in Europe for a period of 6-12 months. He was absolutely incredible for Valencia. Remember the transfer fee Lazio paid for him?

Valencia also sold Claudio Lopez, who at that time, was one of the best players in Europe out wide.

Mendieta and Lopez: losing them was like us losing Gerrard and Alonso, they were that good.

Benitez inherited that situation yet replaced them. He did more than replace them. Under Benitez Valencia actually improved greatly as a team, winning La Liga twice and the UEFA cup.

CGGY suggested that had Gerrard left, we would be 8th or 10th now. I disagree with that. Gerrard is a great player but Benitez is a better manager than Stevie Gerrard was a player. We would have prospered this season, indeed, it is arguable that we could possibly even be a better and more balanced side now had Gerrard been sold. We'll never know, but I stand by my statement that we certainly wouldn't be dramatically worse off. Look at 4th place, its filled by Spurs. Even without Gerrard we are a better side than they are.

The reason we didn't replace Barnes, Beardsley etc is that they all declined in or about the same time and we had the likes of Graeme Souness and Roy Evans as managers, not Rafa Benitez.

[Sarge]

BigMick: just because Mendietta is now an average player now at Middlesboro shouldn't cloud your judgement. 4 years ago he was the best player in Europe for a period of 6-12 months. He was absolutely incredible for Valencia. Remember the transfer fee Lazio paid for him?

Valencia also sold Claudio Lopez, who at that time, was one of the best players in Europe out wide.

Mendieta and Lopez: losing them was like us losing Gerrard and Alonso, they were that good.

Benitez inherited that situation yet replaced them. He did more than replace them. Under Benitez Valencia actually improved greatly as a team, winning La Liga twice and the UEFA cup.

CGGY suggested that had Gerrard left, we would be 8th or 10th now. I disagree with that. Gerrard is a great player but Benitez is a better manager than Stevie Gerrard was a player. We would have prospered this season, indeed, it is arguable that we could possibly even be a better and more balanced side now had Gerrard been sold. We'll never know, but I stand by my statement that we certainly wouldn't be dramatically worse off. Look at 4th place, its filled by Spurs. Even without Gerrard we are a better side than they are.

The reason we didn't replace Barnes, Beardsley etc is that they all declined in or about the same time and we had the likes of Graeme Souness and Roy Evans as managers, not Rafa Benitez.

you really make my day. a round of bitter on me boss