Liverpool FC Forum

[supersub]

Just another Trevor Sinclair .... throw a racist card ...it may get you off the hook.... the Dudley do rights swallow it nearly every time ......

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Just another Trevor Sinclair .... throw a racist card ...it may get you off the hook.... the Dudley do rights swallow it nearly every time ......

Hope your right fella ,couldn't bare to suffer the anti racism squad once again dusting down their whistles to deliver their two penneth 

[ethanr]

Just another Trevor Sinclair .... throw a racist card ...it may get you off the hook.... the Dudley do rights swallow it nearly every time ......

That's exactly what it was. He probably thought he may be getting sent off for that, and was trying to do anything he could to distract the ref. Hopefully he gets in trouble for a false claim (we all know he won't, he's the "victim" after all), as well as that ridiculous push, which he also won't get in trouble for because the ref saw it.

[7_Kewell]

I don't think he's smart enough for that.

By all accounts, Firmino called him a "crazy mother f**ker" in Portuguese and the lad thought he was saying something else.

[Reg]

What's incredible is that the ref didn't punish the lad for throwing Firmino into the stand. WTF was the ref thinking - that behaviour is ok? Big ref error.

[kazza]

What's incredible is that the ref didn't punish the lad for throwing Firmino into the stand. WTF was the ref thinking - that behaviour is ok? Big ref error.

Ref was weak and frankly pushing a player into the stands is much worse than name calling, even a racial slur. So long as no ones feelings get hurt, never mind about an actual physical injury.

World's gone mad!

[Santa]

So physical assault trying to injure a fellow pro is ok...

...utter a few profanity or un-PC words and the entire mob are out with torches and pitchforks trying to protect the clan.

What a fucking clueless world we are living now

[fivecups]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/he-called-n-evertons-mason-11809267

The report clearly says that having consulted a lip reader no racist language was used ,Bobby used the words" Es maluco, filho da puta". If this is the case then Holgate should face a lengthy ban himself for propagating such claims 

Racism has no place in football, any player shown to racially abuse another should be punished with a lengthy ban, on that I hope we can all agree. Holgate clearly believed he was racially abused by Firmino hence his reaction, hopefully he was mistaken, but his reaction was genuine and I don't think he can be punished for that. From that article 'Sunday Mirror’s evidence also ­revealed that the Liverpool striker shouted at Holgate the ­Portuguese phrase ‘Es maluco, filho da puta?”, which translates as “Are you crazy, you son of a b***h?”' I think this was a misunderstanding, simple as that and it should go away in time, not something we need right now though.

[damjan193]

Hope I'm not being racist here (don't know what is racist and what isn't anymore) but Firmino isn't exactly white either. He can't really be insulting someone racially if they have similar skin tone, can he?

[only me]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/he-called-n-evertons-mason-11809267

The report clearly says that having consulted a lip reader no racist language was used ,Bobby used the words" Es maluco, filho da puta". If this is the case then Holgate should face a lengthy ban himself for propagating such claims 

Racism has no place in football, any player shown to racially abuse another should be punished with a lengthy ban, on that I hope we can all agree. Holgate clearly believed he was racially abused by Firmino hence his reaction, hopefully he was mistaken, but his reaction was genuine and I don't think he can be punished for that. From that article 'Sunday Mirror’s evidence also ­revealed that the Liverpool striker shouted at Holgate the ­Portuguese phrase ‘Es maluco, filho da puta?”, which translates as “Are you crazy, you son of a b***h?”' I think this was a misunderstanding, simple as that and it should go away in time, not something we need right now though.

No mate, Holgate clearly lied out of his a$$ and frustration and maybe fear of being carded...He made a false accusation and i expect us to make sure he is punished.

[fivecups]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/he-called-n-evertons-mason-11809267

The report clearly says that having consulted a lip reader no racist language was used ,Bobby used the words" Es maluco, filho da puta". If this is the case then Holgate should face a lengthy ban himself for propagating such claims 

Racism has no place in football, any player shown to racially abuse another should be punished with a lengthy ban, on that I hope we can all agree. Holgate clearly believed he was racially abused by Firmino hence his reaction, hopefully he was mistaken, but his reaction was genuine and I don't think he can be punished for that. From that article 'Sunday Mirror’s evidence also ­revealed that the Liverpool striker shouted at Holgate the ­Portuguese phrase ‘Es maluco, filho da puta?”, which translates as “Are you crazy, you son of a b***h?”' I think this was a misunderstanding, simple as that and it should go away in time, not something we need right now though.

No mate, Holgate clearly lied out of his a$$ and frustration and maybe fear of being carded...He made a false accusation and i expect us to make sure he is punished.

I didn't see it like that Only Me, it seemed like an instantaneous reaction to me, he seemed genuinely aggrieved. I think the ref would have heard any racist language from where he was standing which makes me think Holgate misinterpreted Firmino comments.

[Santa]

Anyone who think Holgate's reaction was genuine need a brain scan...sob was borderline assulting/trying to injure another player and you tell me he don't expect a reaction? wtf is wrong with you people?

[Thommo's perm]

Of course there is no room for racism in football and it must be stamped out at all levels. But what this particular incident shows us is that the element of "the boy who cried wolf" can sometimes do more harm than good. If Holgate genuinely felt that Firmino had called him the "N" word, then of course it has to be investigated. At this moment there doesnt seem to be any evidence of that whatsoever, and therefore its Holgate's word against Firmino's. The video shows us that Firmino does indeed call Holgate a nasty name, but most of us would find this acceptable due to him being pushed into the crowd.
There are 4 points that need to be investigated:
1. Why wasnt Holgate punished straight away for the push? It was as bad as, if not worse than a malicious tackle and could have injured Firmino and even had serious consequences for his career. The referee could and should have made a decision about what punishment he would give once he had the situation under control. Sadly he bottled it and was more than happy just to ignore it instead of dealing with it there and then.
2. The referee was right in the middle of the two players when the alleged racist remark was said. If Holgate heard it, why didnt the referee, who was actually nearer to Firmino than Holgate? There were also many other players in the immediate vicinity, including Holgates team mates, who didnt react as if they had heard a racist remark?
3. Did Holgate invent the racist remark to stay out of trouble and prevent himself getting a yellow or possibly red card for his dangerous, stupid and childish actions? Or did he honestly think that Firmino, who spoke in Portugese, said what he thought he said? It is really convenient that after he made the allegation the referee seemed to forget about the push and just carried on as if it hadn't happened.
4. If Firmino is found not to have made a racist comment, will Holgate be punished retrospectively for not only his actions, but for wasting peoples time and distracting everyone away from the real issue with his false accusation?
The sooner this is sorted the better, and while Fimino should be punished if he is proven to have made a racist comment, should Holgate also be shamed for "using the race card" if Firmino is proven innocent?

[fivecups]

Anyone who think Holgate's reaction was genuine need a brain scan...sob was borderline assulting/trying to injure another player and you tell me he don't expect a reaction? wtf is wrong with you people?

You really think in the heat of the moment Holgate would be able to put that on as an act Santa? No way, watch it again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0nd58xbwJo around 3.10. He either misconstrued what Firmino said or Firmino said something which we couldn't see because Kenny's head was in the way. Either way his reaction was genuine.

[fivecups]

Of course there is no room for racism in football and it must be stamped out at all levels. But what this particular incident shows us is that the element of "the boy who cried wolf" can sometimes do more harm than good. If Holgate genuinely felt that Firmino had called him the "N" word, then of course it has to be investigated. At this moment there doesnt seem to be any evidence of that whatsoever, and therefore its Holgate's word against Firmino's. The video shows us that Firmino does indeed call Holgate a nasty name, but most of us would find this acceptable due to him being pushed into the crowd.
There are 4 points that need to be investigated:
1. Why wasnt Holgate punished straight away for the push? It was as bad as, if not worse than a malicious tackle and could have injured Firmino and even had serious consequences for his career. The referee could and should have made a decision about what punishment he would give once he had the situation under control. Sadly he bottled it and was more than happy just to ignore it instead of dealing with it there and then.
2. The referee was right in the middle of the two players when the alleged racist remark was said. If Holgate heard it, why didnt the referee, who was actually nearer to Firmino than Holgate? There were also many other players in the immediate vicinity, including Holgates team mates, who didnt react as if they had heard a racist remark?
3. Did Holgate invent the racist remark to stay out of trouble and prevent himself getting a yellow or possibly red card for his dangerous, stupid and childish actions? Or did he honestly think that Firmino, who spoke in Portugese, said what he thought he said? It is really convenient that after he made the allegation the referee seemed to forget about the push and just carried on as if it hadn't happened.
4. If Firmino is found not to have made a racist comment, will Holgate be punished retrospectively for not only his actions, but for wasting peoples time and distracting everyone away from the real issue with his false accusation?
The sooner this is sorted the better, and while Fimino should be punished if he is proven to have made a racist comment, should Holgate also be shamed for "using the race card" if Firmino is proven innocent?

Good post.

1. Should have had at least a yellow.
2. See link above, ref turned away at the end of the 'filho da puta' remark. Firmino seems to say something after that but the view is blocked. Holgate reacts at the end of the filho da puta remark or at whatever was said after it, I can't tell which but the ref wasn't listening.
3. He would need to be a genius to invent it in the heat of the moment IMO.
4. No, because he thought he heard racist abuse, unfortunate but not a deliberate false accusation.