Liverpool FC Forum

[devaney]

Dear oh Dear. Shelvey I probably agree with. But Henderson, Can you tell me what he has done so wrong in the last 5-6 months same with Downing. Downings form recently has been great but yet he is still victimised.

Borini still hasnt been given his chance really but he does seem very injury prone.

Shelvey has a higher opinion of himself than most other people! Not impressed with his on field performance or his off field whinging.

Henderson has improved and it would be financially stupid to get rid of him now.

Downing has improved significantly since his if you don't like it then you can go chat with BR.

Borini hasn't impressed but injuries haven't helped and I think he deserves a bit more of a chance before we sell him.

[eds]

Dear oh Dear. Shelvey I probably agree with. But Henderson, Can you tell me what he has done so wrong in the last 5-6 months same with Downing. Downings form recently has been great but yet he is still victimised.

Borini still hasnt been given his chance really but he does seem very injury prone.

Was a tad harsh on Henderson, but I really haven't figured out what type of player he is yet. Is he a defensive midfielder? No. Is he a box-to-box midfielder? No. Is he a playmaking passing midfielder? No. Is he break the play up kind of player and boss the midfield player? No. He has lots of energy, enthusiasm and heart but I still don't see a player in him yet. Just my opinion. I guess we have been spoilt with Monster Mash, Alonso and Gerrard over the last few years. Are standards should remain as f**king high as this, if we are going to go anywhere.

I really don't know what this whole "Downing is much improved" tosh I have been hearing from people. He was absoulately dog s**t last season and although he has improved I still don't see him as a quality winger. I can't see him at any of the other top sides so why the f**k are people creaming themselves over this player?

Borini, is rubbish (injuries or no injuries) and made out of glass. I have sound countless times, he probably will go down as one of our worst ever signings. He has looked terribly out of depth, runs around like a headless chook and couldn't hit the side of barnyard door. He should definately NOT be given a chance to embarass us again next season, especially when a top 4 target is so important.

[LFC1990]

Henderson is Gerrard just not as good and thats no dig at Hendo because not many players will ever compare to Stevie.
He will chase the ball for 90 minutes and this season we have seen a couple of goals from the lad taken very well.

Downing has improved it would have been very hard for him not to have after the first season he had. He gets in the side most weeks now and we have bought Sturridge and Coutinho so its not that we dont have the numbers.

Borini - If you have judged him now then fair enough and im not saying when he plays you can see something their. What im saying is the lad has been given a run in the team. Because we have the talents of Suarez and sturridge in their h may find it hard to get in. But to rule the lad out i think is a touch unfair.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

shelvey is a good young player, people expect young players to be the finished article at 20/21 these days but football doesnt work like that.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Class goal from Shelvey for the U21's .....Gerrardesque ?


http://www.footylounge.com/films//lfctikitaka/amazing-jonjo-shelvey-goal-vs-manchester-united-u21s-video_e502159f7.html

[only me]

Shelvey is a Keeper for sure. Has great Talent and a killer kick ,needs to work on his temper and patience.

[Kenny Kan]

I didn't see the Fulham game, how did Shelvey play?

[eds]

I think Shelvey's time is up at Liverpool.

The Fulham game was his last chance saloon and I think Rodgers will call an end to his career over the next few months.

OK player but definately not the standard we should be after especially when we have been linked to likes of Christian Eriksen, who is the same age and is light years away it terms of quality and skill.

If we are serious in getting a top four finish next season we need to be ruthless on our "fringe" players like Shelvey, Borini and Downing. Give them a season, let's see how we go and ship'em out if they don't perform. I think a lot of the problems we have as a club is we wait to much time to decide, which has come to our detriment in winning the league. I keep reading the same rubbish from "fans" over and over again, give em time and they will come good. It's ridiculous, when you expect s**t players to come good and then expect results or improvement. 

[maguskwt]

I think Shelvey's time is up at Liverpool.

The Fulham game was his last chance saloon and I think Rodgers will call an end to his career over the next few months.

OK player but definately not the standard we should be after especially when we have been linked to likes of Christian Eriksen, who is the same age and is light years away it terms of quality and skill.

If we are serious in getting a top four finish next season we need to be ruthless on our "fringe" players like Shelvey, Borini and Downing. Give them a season, let's see how we go and ship'em out if they don't perform. I think a lot of the problems we have as a club is we wait to much time to decide, which has come to our detriment in winning the league. I keep reading the same rubbish from "fans" over and over again, give em time and they will come good. It's ridiculous, when you expect s**t players to come good and then expect results or improvement. 

Agreed, actually for Downing, we need to be finding a replacement asap for next season. A CB who is better than skrtle, a midfielder who is better than Lucas, and a good winger to replace downing, and we should have quite a strong team...

[devaney]

I struggle to see why some people want to keep Shelvey. What am I missing? I know he is young and improvement is a possibility but I simply do not think he is ever going to be good enough to feature regular at the level I hope that we are aspiring to. He has been given several opportunities this season and has generally been extremely poor. I am not sure that he is worth persisting with.

[bunglemark2]

I struggle to see why some people want to keep Shelvey. What am I missing? I know he is young and improvement is a possibility but I simply do not think he is ever going to be good enough to feature regular at the level I hope that we are aspiring to. He has been given several opportunities this season and has generally been extremely poor. I am not sure that he is worth persisting with.

Agree with that...

[eds]

I struggle to see why some people want to keep Shelvey. What am I missing? I know he is young and improvement is a possibility but I simply do not think he is ever going to be good enough to feature regular at the level I hope that we are aspiring to. He has been given several opportunities this season and has generally been extremely poor. I am not sure that he is worth persisting with.

I think the main problem you have with our "fans" is the rose spectacled view of ALL our players, no matter what their ability is.

I remember trying to have a debate with one clueless so called "fan" a few months ago on Andy Carroll. This deluded individual wanted him back at the club because he felt we didn't give him enough time and that anyone that question him (was not a true fan). He even had the audacity to claim Carroll was a better player then Rooney! 

When I and a few other posters pointed out this was not support, but sheer "blind faith" that Carroll would "come good" he knew he had lost and start side-tracking the argument altogether. That's the problem dude, we have too many fans that become attached to mediocrity and defend this thinking their club is under attack and that the people making logical and well thought out conclusions, are either enemies or knee-jerk reactionists.

If you actually have a look at our track record (over the last decade alone) of holding on to players that weren't good enough, it paints a telling picture.  Compare that to likes of Manure, Arsenal or Cheatski and you can see why they consistently are challenging for the top 4 every season. I really hope Rodgers can turn that around in season 2 and get rid of "deadwood", because the longer he holds on to them the further back we fall.

[only me]

I struggle to see why some people want to keep Shelvey. What am I missing? I know he is young and improvement is a possibility but I simply do not think he is ever going to be good enough to feature regular at the level I hope that we are aspiring to. He has been given several opportunities this season and has generally been extremely poor. I am not sure that he is worth persisting with.

Agree with that...

He is worth persisting because he has the talent, he has a great kick from distance ,he can make the clever pass ,he is physical enough to compete.

We have many other players which got their chances and have yet to produce on a consistent basis. Lucas for one ,Downing and Hendo ,Allen ,Skertel...Difference between them and Jonjo that they are older and had many chances to prove their worth - They failed.

[SouthCoastShankly]

I struggle to see why some people want to keep Shelvey. What am I missing? I know he is young and improvement is a possibility but I simply do not think he is ever going to be good enough to feature regular at the level I hope that we are aspiring to. He has been given several opportunities this season and has generally been extremely poor. I am not sure that he is worth persisting with.

The kid is 20 FFS. Most players his age are out on loan at a championship side.

I held high hopes for him after some very good performances last season and the beginning of this season, unfortunately his form dropped significantly and he got dropped. Rightly so.

However I still see a future in him, I believe the talent is there he just needs to develop better judgement in terms of decision making. The biggest challenge a consistently good premier league footballer has is maintaining concentration and form across a whole season, even Gerrard throughout his illustrious career has had dips in form. The making of Shelvey will be whether he lets the dips in form, like this season (and there will be more throughout his career), affect his development and confidence. The same argument can be made of Henderson. Henderson has had more professional playing seasons under his belt that Shelvey, yet I argue when both are on form there is not much to separate them. Which is a good indicator for Shelvey as he is younger.

It may be that another loan spell is warranted for Shelvey, but for Liverpool to gain any benefit from it the loan must be to a top tier club. I.e. another Premiership side or half decent side in Europe. You only have to see the benefit that Jack Wilshere had from his spell at Bolton.

[devaney]

I struggle to see why some people want to keep Shelvey. What am I missing? I know he is young and improvement is a possibility but I simply do not think he is ever going to be good enough to feature regular at the level I hope that we are aspiring to. He has been given several opportunities this season and has generally been extremely poor. I am not sure that he is worth persisting with.

I think the main problem you have with our "fans" is the rose spectacled view of ALL our players, no matter what their ability is.

I remember trying to have a debate with one clueless so called "fan" a few months ago on Andy Carroll. This deluded individual wanted him back at the club because he felt we didn't give him enough time and that anyone that question him (was not a true fan). He even had the audacity to claim Carroll was a better player then Rooney! 

When I and a few other posters pointed out this was not support, but sheer "blind faith" that Carroll would "come good" he knew he had lost and start side-tracking the argument altogether. That's the problem dude, we have too many fans that become attached to mediocrity and defend this thinking their club is under attack and that the people making logical and well thought out conclusions, are either enemies or knee-jerk reactionists.

If you actually have a look at our track record (over the last decade alone) of holding on to players that weren't good enough, it paints a telling picture.  Compare that to likes of Manure, Arsenal or Cheatski and you can see why they consistently are challenging for the top 4 every season. I really hope Rodgers can turn that around in season 2 and get rid of "deadwood", because the longer he holds on to them the further back we fall.

I just hope that Coutihno who is 20 and Sturridge are examples of what can be expected in the transfer market as a result of the new scouts we have employed. Sturridge can be frustratingly inconsistent but also show signs of total brilliance. Coutinho is simply one of our best buys for a very long time and possibly one of Inter Milan's biggest co.ck ups. Thank gawd they never went to Specsavers !!  Allen and Borini together with Assaidi were BR's first purchases and so far haven't set the world on fire. Assaidi for reasons best known to BR seems to be out of favour but has impressed when given the opportunity. Borini and Allen both fall into the Shelvey mould. They are both solid professionals but not good enough to challenge at the highest level.

onlyme - I admire your loyalty but just how long do you give some of these players? Hendo looks as if he is going to be useful. Downing has improved from the pitiful standard he displayed during his first 15 months at Liverpool but is he really good enough. Personally I don't think so and I don't think he ever will be. Downing performs well against poor opposition and disappears against the top teams.