Liverpool FC Forum

[eds]

Agree Countinho's on and off form is the reason why he is still at Liverpool. Otherwise he would be playing for one of the Spanish giants now or City / Chelsea would have come knocking.

The underlying problem that it takes to "consistently challenge for the prem" is that we need a team that can perform on the field AND owners that are willing to offer them pay contracts to compare and compete with the richer clubs. To do that you simply need to keep you best players or replace them with QUALITY. This is what FSG have failed to understand with players like Gerrard retiring, Suarez leaving and Sterling being sold off. There is NO POINT selling your best players or shrugging your shoulders when they eventually retire unless you have ready made replacements to go. It doesn't matter how good Rodgers "could have been" or how good Klopp "is going to be" when the goal posts are that narrow, it's almost impossible to succeed.

I don't know why we should be comparing ourselves to City, when in reality we aren't set up like them or have their ridiculous wage and transfer budget. If anything we should be looking at how teams like Athletico Madrid have been able to build their squads and maintain success over a number of seasons. When they lost Torres, they replaced him with Aguero, when they lost Aguero they replaced him with Falcao, when they lost Falcao they replaced him with Costa, and then lastly Mandžukić & Griezmann. A phenomenal scouting record over the last 7-8 years.

Instead ask yourselves who replaced Gerrard? Who replaced Suarez? Who replaced Sterling?

Who is going to replace Coutinho (if he does leave)..............

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Lots of Evertonians now hold the opinion that for the first time in 3 decades their squad is actually better than ours.
To be fair the likes of Barkley, Stones, Coleman, Lukaku etc would walk into our side.
Considering the money we have spent it's a damning indictment of our recruitment policy that it's even up for discussion.

[JC_81]

For Everton's squad supposedly being better than ours they're below us in the league and we've had more cup games and more injuries to contend with.

Don't get me wrong there are a few of their players I'd definitely have but a lot of them are over-hyped and haven't produced when it's really mattered for them.

Stones and Barkley are massively overrated. Lukaku plays when he wants to and couldn't cut it at a top 4 club. Baines is almost finished and so are Jagielka, Howard, Barry and Osman. Coleman could do with tracking back once in a while, after all he is supposed to be a defender! Mirallas is the most selfish player in the league and Lennon is garbage.

Did I leave any out?!!

[eds]

Always the mark of small side when they are comparing themselves to us and one of the worst teams we have had in recent memory.

[Thommo's perm]

I have never and will never give a fu'ck about how much a player costs or how much we lose if we sell him. If hes not good enough, get rid asap. We have plenty in the squad at the minute who are either surplus to requirements or as simply not good enough. Those of us who are honest can name them easily, others either dont know or wont say. This current crop of players have many weaknesses and few strength, which was shown on Sunday, but I personally dont think the manager is all that bothered about this season. He seems to want to get to the end and then start with his own players. Next season we will be able to judge better.
This season is a horrible, painful learning curve and I cant wait for it to finish

[maguskwt]

to sell AND upgrade (I'm concentrating more on the starting team and subs. Not reserves)

GK: Mignolet
Defenders: Lovren, Skrtle, Enrique, Toure
Midfielders: Henderson, Allen, Lucas, Milner
Forwards: Benteke

Fit to start in the starting eleven:

GK: Nil
Defenders: Clyne, Moreno, Flanagan, Sakho
Midfielders: Can, Lallana, Coutinho
Forwards: Firmino, Sturridge, Origi

As you can see the critical positions are GK and Midfielders. Defence and Forward need strengthening but not as critical as GK and Midfield...

[Klopptomaniac]

Simon Mignolet
Adam Bogdan
Jose Enrique
Tiago Ilori
Martin Skrtel
Kolo Toure (Matip is coming in)
Christian Benteke
Mario Balotelli
Jerome Sinclair (See ya Aidy!)
One of Lucas/Allen

INDIFFERENT
Luis Alberto [Loan out]
Henderson
Adam Lallana
Moreno

I'm wary about too much change in one window but the squad definitely needs surgery - though I didn't realise how big the squad was

[Pig Catcher]

We can come up with long lists of players to come in and out but the bottom line is that Klopp won't be able to make all the changes he wants to in one window. We'll have to hang on and make use of some players who are not part of long term planning for at least another season.

I'm sure there will be some more surprising exits as it's not just about how good a player is, it's also about suitability, something Rodgers got seriously wrong.

[devaney]

If the right money came in for Danny I would be tempted to let him go. I am not sure if he is mentally in a good place. Difficult to red his body language because in fairness he has a very good poker face. Either that or he is just a miserable tw.at !! The probably with Sturridge is that we simply cannot rely on him. Even if he starts a game you don't know if he is going to finish it. Similar to Coutinho and Sterling it is reasonable to say that he has not be the same player without Suarez on the pitch. All of these players are also missing the respected presence of Gerrard even in his poor final year. Danny is also strugglingling to fing his pre injury form.

I WOULD ONLY SELL HIM AFTER WE HAD BOUGHT A QUALITY REPLACEMENT AND THAT PART MIGHT NOT BE TOO EASY !!

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

If the right money came in for Danny I would be tempted to let him go. I am not sure if he is mentally in a good place. Difficult to red his body language because in fairness he has a very good poker face. Either that or he is just a miserable tw.at !! The probably with Sturridge is that we simply cannot rely on him. Even if he starts a game you don't know if he is going to finish it. Similar to Coutinho and Sterling it is reasonable to say that he has not be the same player without Suarez on the pitch. All of these players are also missing the respected presence of Gerrard even in his poor final year. Danny is also strugglingling to fing his pre injury form.

I WOULD ONLY SELL HIM AFTER WE HAD BOUGHT A QUALITY REPLACEMENT AND THAT PART MIGHT NOT BE TOO EASY !!

Sturridge is top quality, he's right up there with Coutinho as the best player at the club but it does have to be said he's not the type of forward who is going to run himself into the ground harrying centre halves all day.
Is Jurgen prepared to accept Danny's relative lack of work rate? I guess we'll find out in the summer.

[Raoul]

If the right money came in for Danny I would be tempted to let him go. I am not sure if he is mentally in a good place. Difficult to red his body language because in fairness he has a very good poker face. Either that or he is just a miserable tw.at !! The probably with Sturridge is that we simply cannot rely on him. Even if he starts a game you don't know if he is going to finish it. Similar to Coutinho and Sterling it is reasonable to say that he has not be the same player without Suarez on the pitch. All of these players are also missing the respected presence of Gerrard even in his poor final year. Danny is also strugglingling to fing his pre injury form.

I WOULD ONLY SELL HIM AFTER WE HAD BOUGHT A QUALITY REPLACEMENT AND THAT PART MIGHT NOT BE TOO EASY !!

Sturridge is top quality, he's right up there with Coutinho as the best player at the club but it does have to be said he's not the type of forward who is going to run himself into the ground harrying centre halves all day.
Is Jurgen prepared to accept Danny's relative lack of work rate? I guess we'll find out in the summer.

In Ings and Origi we've got the forwards with workrate who can complement Sturridge's class, I think there is room for both in the squad. I'd like to see another like Firmino added to the forward line - someone who can play up front but is also capable of playing across the front line (Reus or Volland maybe?). Klopp doesn't seem to favour playing two up front, and so I don't think we need another specialist striker.

As you posted somewhere else, it's the midfield where we really need to add quality. If all we did was bring in one or two top quality midfielders I think we'd see a significantly different Liverpool. If that meant farewelling a couple of Lucas, Allen or Hendo (all players I like) I'd see that as a step forward.

Elsewhere in the squad I'd like to see Bogdan, Wisdom, Skrtel, Luis Alberto, Ballotelli and Benteke moved on. It would be good to have Toure stay on in a player-coach role, especially if we have European football next year.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

By the looks of it mate we are getting Gotze so assuming we can hold on to Coutinho our front line will probably look something like this ....


                                               Gotze.            Coutinho.         Firmino

                                                                          CF

.... which does look quality. It wasn't that long ago that Roy was in charge and the likes of Joe Cole, Paul Konchesky and Christian Poulsen were the height of our ambition.
Re Sturridge I just get the sense that Jurgen and Danny haven't really hit it off on a personal level either, obviously Jurgen publicaly calling Danny out over his injuries/pain threshold hasn't helped and it will be interesting to see what happens in the summer.

[aCe']

I'd swap Firmino for Lallana,add Sturridge upfront and go big signing a CM to partner Can. We'll also need to sign a GK and if a proven/experienced LB is available I'd sign them and have Moreno rotate while learning the basics of defending, positioning, pressing, etc.

Who to get rid of ? Not so sure anymore. The top candidates seem to be:

Mignolet, Bogdan: Mignolet's value is probably at an all time low. He's recently signed a 5 year deal and hes still a youngish goalkeeper. I'd probably keep as backup unless a good bid comes in. It wont.

Verdict: Bogdan can go, Mignolet stays as backup unless a big bid comes in. 

Moreno: Not good enough as a starter at present but he has potential to improve and become a long term mainstay in the starting 11. The lack of experience in the side is affecting him more than most imo.

Verdict: Keep but sign an experienced LB (Felipe Luis, Coentrao, etc.)

Skrtel: Torn over whether we should keep him because of his experience at the club or whether his time at the club is up. Sakho and Lovren are both better options and with Matip coming that'll be 3 big names who should all be ahead of him. Keeping him will just mean that kids wont be getting a chance in the position next season.

Verdict: Keep. Gomez is versatile and can be 5th option.

Gomez, Llori, Kolo, Caulker:
Verdict:  Keep Gomez, get rid of the rest. Kolo has done well whenever called upon but he wont get many chances next season. Llori has been shockingly bad despite the endorsements from many on the forum.

Flanagan, Enrique, Smith, Wisdom: I love Flanagan but he offers us very little outside workrate and passion. Hes a local kid and he'll stay at the club but I'd be worried if Clyne got injured and Flanagan got an extended run.

Verdict: Enrique and Wisdom will go, Smith should go out on loan and Flanagan to stay as backup.

Henderson: Not the most popular player in the side is he. He's an okay player who would get in many sides in the league to be honest. Pair him with an Alonso or Pirlo and you get the best out of him but unfortunately we dont have one of these in the side.

Verdict: I'd definitely keep him. You need at least 3 or 4 good CMs in a squad with CL qualification ambitions. Henderson is our second best CM behind Can and he isnt even that far behind the German which says more about the other CMs at the club than it does about Can or Henderson.

Allen, Lucas, Milner: The only one out of 3 who I think is useful to have in a 15 man rotation is Milner. He's also the one I like the least.

Verdict: I'd actively look to sell Allen and Lucas. To my mind, we need to bring in at least one CM to start alongside Can and one CM as backup alongside Henderson. Milner and one of the kids (Grujic?) can be 5th and 6th choice. With our current setup, I think we do much better with 2 CMs who dont sit too deep and lack mobility (à la Lucas).

Alberto, Markovic, Ibe: I know people keep talking about all the AMs we sign, but we actually lack specialized options down the flanks. I dont like any of the 3 on this list to be honest. Ibe is too one dimensional, same goes for Markovic, and Alberto isnt good enough to play a central AM role against top competition. 

Verdict: Alberto can go. Markovic leaving should depend on whether another option is brought in or not. Ibe to stay as backup. We'll end up with Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino, Ibe, (Markovic/new?), (Ojo/Texeira), (2 strikers/forward out of position).

Benteke: Klopp didnt give him enough chances I feel which is a shame.

Verdict: Should go in the sumemr.

Origi, Ings, Balotelli: Out of the 3, I like Ings the most. Balotelli obviously has more talent than the other 2 combined but the application never seems to be there. Origi works hard but lacks the talents and Ings seems to have average everything. Toughest one to call, because of Sturridge. If Sturridge was any other forward, you'd say Sturridge + Ings and Origi + Firmino as an option should be enough. Remove Sturridge from that equation because of injury and suddenly most midtable sides have better forwards than we do. It'll be hard getting anything for Origi or Ings in the summer so we'll probably see one them go out on loan if we decide to make big changes.

Verdict: Balotelli to leave, Ings to leave, and a new top forward to be brought in. We end up with Sturridge, New FW, Origi, Firmino as an alternative.

[devaney]

Interesting post Ace.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I don't believe Mignolet will suffer being  a second choice keeper ,so for that reason we need to bring in a top quality replacement and promote Ward ,there are some excellent keepers in the Bundesliga such as Hoffenheim's Oliver Baumannn we should definitely be looking at some of them.

In defence I would have no qualms seeing Skrtel  Toure and Moreno leave ,Toure simply because of his time being up as an established CB ,Skrtel because he eradicates any  semblance of competence from the defenders he shares the field with ,and Moreno because he defines the word inconsistent. 

This may be controversial ,but I'd lose Lallana, Allen ,Milner and Henderson .  I would say in Lallana's case its a shame as in terms of ability he is probably the most gifted English payer with a ball at his feet ,but for me he makes all the wrong decisions ,and fails to do the simple things ,he often gifts the ball to the opposition by attempting a flick or a drag back ,fine when they come off ,but when they don't it puts us under pressure and leaves us open to the counter and we lose any momentum going forward. 

The last few games he has shown more conviction ,but we're all waiting for the fragility in his game to return ,he's had  far too many games were he's been considerably less than average. I simply don't trust him to deliver any real consistency.

Milner is the kind of workmanlike midfielder who you can find in every team ,nothing about his game could be described as unique or indeed special. Imo he's exactly the type of midfielder Liverpool need to distance themselves from.

I think for whatever reason Henderson's game has deteriorated so rapidly ,its now apparent he's will never be capable of delivering the kind of commanding performances he gave us in our title run ,and if we're capable of being honest then you wouldn't have to risk burning out a  brain cell selecting a  midfielder who could comfortably usurp Henderson in our midfield.

Allen is a tidy player on the ball ,but relinquishes his responsibilities to defend far too often for my liking, and tends to leave our DM stranded ,weak in the tackle and has no real understanding of where he should be when the balls in flight. I think the game against the Saints was the perfect example of Joe Allens game .

Up front ,Benteke's time at this club has been less than inspiring he neither fits our style of play or understands the job expected of an impact sub . As for Mario ,well I'm afraid he's proven himself to be a mouse in terms of proving fans wrong ,I genuinely thought he would show his quality in the Milan team ,but he's been just as sullen and disinterested for them ,its seems even  given his undoubted talent ,playing football and winning back the fans respect isn't as important as we perceive it to be .

I want to see two CBs who instantly have an understanding of each others game ,I want to see defenders who managers from opposing teams need to produce a master plan to get past ,ones that are only beaten by moments of true genius. 

I want to see an AM who can link up play and  allow Can to evolve into the DM we all know he can be ,I want to see a midfield with vision, and one that can bring the very best out of our most  innovative front players. I want to see pacey  wingers that can hug that touchline tight and whip in the kind of crosses that are impossible to defend.

I want to see a striker with no fear ,a striker whose inclusion in the first eleven makes other managers wince ,and one that can produce something out of nothing and score the kind of goals he has no right to.

Most of all I want a Captain who even if injured needs to be dragged off the field kicking and screaming before he's substituted ,I want a Captain to mirror the passion of the Kopites. One whose energy practically sucks the life out of opposing teams.

I trust Klopp to give us those players next season