Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:59 am

I know I’m inviting the wrath of a few people here, but I was disgusted with Jamie Carragher’s (and to a lesser extent Steven Gerrard’s) comments last week in support of Gerard Houllier. Carragher said that he was fully in support of Gerard Houllier as Houllier was the reason why he had “6 medals on my mantlepiece”. If I remember correctly those six medals are made up of two league cups, an FA Cup, a UEFA cup, a European Supercup and a Charity Shield.

The Charity Shield and the Supercup are only exhibition matches and we beat a Bayern team in the 2001 final who sent out a reserve side against us.

I’m in favour of winning these matches if we are in them, but I wouldn’t exactly spend my time at home sitting by the fire clapping myself on the back and polishing my Charity Shield medal.

The two League Cup medals are ok, but hardly the crowning achievement of any top footballer’s career.

The FA Cup medal and the UEFA cup medal are relatively prestigious, but then again neither competition are as important as they were back in the 1970s, certainly not since the advent of the Champions League.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not completely dismssing those cup wins. They were a remarkable achievement given the time. However, most people here will probably agree with me when I say that back in the late spring of 2001 I honestly thought that they were merely signposts on the way to greater success, meaning the league championship and prosperity in the Champions League. Neither have materialised.

I am disgusted with Carragher as his comments indicate that he is happy with his lot as a player, that he is happy with his “6 medals”. I know that he says he wants to win the league with the club, but every time he talks to the press he harps back to his six Mickey Mouse medals and how great Houllier is.

I’m a big fan of Roy Keane in that he is not prepared to settle for anything other than the Premiership and the Champions League, and if a season passes where Man UTD don’t achieve either he is massively disappointed. When Keane joined Man UTD they were a joke in Europe but it was the likes of Keane’s bloody-mindedness and ambition that dragged that club by its bootlaces up into the upper echelons of European football.

I like Carragher but sometimes I ask myself that if he, a scouser, is happy with his lot, then what hope Le Tallec, Pongolle, Smicer, Cheyrou, Diouff, Diao etc?

Steven Gerrard also spoke about his six medals, but at least Gerrard speaks of not being happy with being so far off the leaders, and you can see that this hurts Gerrard. Gerrard is happy with his medals but compared to Carragher, you get the feeling that he desperately wants more and wouldn’t be happy with his career if all he had to show for it was a few league cup and charity shield medals.

We need more ambition from the players. Houllier gets a lot of flak, but the players also need to ***** uo their ears. I simply don’t see the hunger in Liverpool, and I won’t bore people by taking about Shankly, Dalglish or Ian Rush. Even if you compare this side to that of Houllier’s dogs of war side of 2001 and 2002 there is a serious lack of ambition and desire.

by **Starbridge42** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:14 pm

The lesser the footballer the less they will settle for. Carragher is a fine footballer and a good player but he isn't as good as Roy Keane or Steven Gerrard. Last year the side I play for won the local premiership, the minor premiership the state knock-out cup and were finalists in the Australia-wide comp. Now if I were to stop playing now I could look back and say, 'geez, I had a good run' but would any proffesional footballer settle for that? No, Carragher is willing to settle for UEFA Cup, League Cups and FA Cups because he may not be in a side that wins anything bigger. Players like Gerrard, Owen, Kewell, Keane etc. are wonderful players and they won't settle for just those few medals Liverpool have won under GH. They won't more because they are better footballers.
Catch my drift?

Peace yo!
-Starbridge42

by **RedSi** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:24 pm

I don't think your comments will incur anyone's wrath JBG, as much as I like Carragher for the very reasons you yourself state, I think it's a very fair observation.....

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:37 pm

that sums up the difference between us and manure. we're settling for mediocrity at the moment. man u just don't except failure. it's driven into them to succeed.

by **shilton_red** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:46 pm

You cant compare Houllier with Fergie totally different personalities . Houllier has patience and is a thoroughly nice guy , Fergie doesnt know what patience is and wont accept second best .I dont think weve accepted our position far from it , we are putting up with it and adjusting around a blip all be it a long one . Hopeless v Pompey home and away , big improvement eufa cup , not to bad v Leeds . We can get 4th spot and win the eufa cup . What we need is a improved quick style of play , and some consistancy week to week .Owen needs to pull his weight and put chances away , Baros is fireing . Things are looking up , it will get better , we will pull through . But there is no guarantees whoever is in charge thats the game .I dont think Carragher was saying hes ettling for the medals hes won thanks to Houllier just saying it wasnt a bad start . Theres alot of dead wood in our squad we know that , Houllier must clear it out and compact a good squad of players . I think he can do that , but its gunna take a while .I personally wonder whether he can do the job , but there is really only one way to find out . He has proved good inn the past when weve reached finals hes very cionfident and cool and that shows hes got it there . Ok it was in small competition s to what weve been use to but it proved he can do it .

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:50 pm

yeah it's just a case of taking our opportunities. we've had more shots than any other team in the league this season.

by **RedSi** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:50 pm

You must've been watching a different UEFA game to me shilton_red, that's the worst I've seen them this season. Two individual goals out of nothing didn't paper over the cracks for me, that was pretty much the most dejected I've been leaving Anfield in a long while.....

Credit where credit's due though, I saw some good signs yesterday though, if only we could get the defence and attack both playing well on the same day, eh.....?!?

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:54 pm

absolutely. we looked great going forward yesterday and if we brought diouf in for murphy we'd probably have been even better. the problem is, you can't even contemplate the champions league when you defend as abjectly as we did yesterday. the liverpool of 2 yrs ago would never have conceded goals in such a manner. kirkland could have been out quicker for both goals i thought as well.

by **shilton_red** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:54 pm

I saw a quickness of passing that was good in the eufa cup and v Leeds and thats whats reqiured not all this careful slow build up play .
We need to move the ball quickley and accurately into the danger areas and we need to convert the chances we make too .

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:58 pm

one of the main problems we have is that we have too many players who see the necessity to play the ball sideways or backwards all the time. also, players e.g. murphy always seem to want an extra touch on the ball and as a result get dispossessed. arsenal are the masters at passing and movement. did you see the first half against charlton? thats the standard we need to try and obtain.

by **shilton_red** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:02 pm

Thats what i saw in the eufa cup a urgency , a quickness . They wanted to get the ball into the opponents half / box . It created panic and got us the two goals . if we play the old slow safety first build up game it doesnt work . We must use Baros and Owens pace , and Gerrards and Kewells skills .

by **RedSi** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:12 pm

Sorry to disagree Shilts but what I saw in the UEFA was an inability to breakdown a very organised-but-ordinary defence. Every time Murphy got the ball it went sideways at best, Kewell did absolutely nothing unless it was given to him on a plate and Owen's lack of effort was highlighted by Baros's unceasing commitment. The defence strangely enough did look quite solid however.......

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:15 pm

the defence looked solid because levski came with no attacking ambition whatsoever. it was like a training excercise for them. i still say we have the basis of a very good team. we just need a centre half, a creative midfielder and a striker.

by **RedSi** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:20 pm

100% agree StMichael, I think I said the very same thing on Friday although my mention of Robert Earnshaw was met with howls of derision (I still think that a 2mil punt on him is a better idea than 13mil on Cisse, then we could spend the 5-8mil or whatever it'd take to get Malbranque onboard....).

by **stmichael** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:26 pm

i like malbranque. he'd be a good acquisition for 5m and naturally plays wide right. there's no point sticking diouf, murphy, cheyrou, le tallec out there because they aren't wingers. earnshaw may score goals for fun in the first division but the gulf in class betweeen that and the premiership is huge and widening. i like you though think 13m on cisse is a huge gamble because the french league's rubbish and is no place to prove yourself. my personal choice would be robbie keane.

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