Liverpool FC Forum

[damjan193]

You think I'm overreacting that im disgusted that a guy who has served and protected his country was murdered in cold blood just walking down his own street by two guys using Islam extremist view to justify their actions. Trust me my reactions quite calm compared to what a lot of people of doing.

I know exactly what happens in other countries because I have witnessed plenty of other incidents of extremist views where people have suffered and prob witnessed sights that you wouldn't want to see in your worst nightmare.

I think that you're overreacting to the overall situation in your country, not to the murder. As bad as the murder is, you can't be disgusted by your country because of a single incident.

I can be disgusted with the country because of this incident ( and I am ) but don't you dare make any suggestions of overreacting to what's happen

I didn't 

[red till i die!!]

R.I.P to that young man, and may god be with him and his family as they cope with the loss of a loved one through an act of violent extremism by 2 deranged attention seekers.
its a scary thought to think that you could just witness something like that never mind be the victim of it.
no god demands that followers kill for them, just the cowards that brain wash these fools into it.

[laza]

RIP Squaddie

Fair weather on your final deployment to undiscovered country

Hopefully your death will galvanise the vast majority of all faiths in the UK to combat the extreme minority

[tonyeh]

I've no idea if they are really follow Islam or not but what that guy said to the camera was consistent with radical
islamic fundamentalists. This could well have been a pair of nutters just trying to stir the pot. But in 2007
police arrested some guys in Birmingham who were intending to abduct and behead a British soldier so people like this
do exist.

What dissapoints me is the lack of education within the Muslim communities. We have a generation of kids growing
up with hatred towards western nations and they don't know of a non violent way to deal with their disagreement of our foreign policy.

All these extremist preachers like Abu Hamza, Anjem Choudry no doubt hold positons of influence and most likley
operate out of Mosques based in the UK. Mosques in which children recieve some sort of education. The communities should be ousting them
and their Saudi based intrepretatons of the Quarn.

The goverment also needs to admit it's foreign policy isn't working and is affecting our way of life here.

Just because Bin Laden happened to be Saudi Arabian it doesn't make the root cause of Islamic fundamentalism Saudi based. Saudi Arabia employs Sharia law but in no way does it sponsor or promote extremist views against the west.

Saudi Arabia is an ally of the west, it easily the safest middle eastern country I have visited. No hostility to westerners whatsoever.

If anything I would say that the root cause of these extremist views are Iran and Pakistan.

A freind of mine was in Tehran for a business conference and was surprised at how laid back it was. His taxi driver from the airport was a woman.

Women aren't allowed to even drive in Saudi. They couldn't even ride a bike until a while ago.

Iran isn't the country most westeners think it is.

[babu]

Fuc.king horrible insane attack. I feel for the family of this brutally slain man, nothing can ever justify a cowardly attack like this.

I suggest the culprits get their heads cut off with a spoon. Slowly.

[maguskwt]

Personally for me, it's becoming harder and harder to believe that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam itself simply because of the fact that there are too often these acts of violence and terror in recent times being connected to the name of Islam. I accept the fact that the majority of Islamic practitioners are peaceful and Islamic extremism is the minority and should not be equated to the mainstream Islam. However, if that is the case, what are the authorities of main stream Islam doing about this? Shouldn't they be more vocal about condemning these acts of violence and terror? It is just too quiet from the majority of mainstream muslims and especially from the higher authorities. I have acquaintances, educated mainstream muslims, doctors and engineers, they are not radicals at all. However, I've seen them express openly their happiness when 911 happened. It's along the lines of serves them right, or they got it coming and some even were half cheering. If mainstream Islam wants to detach itself from Islamic extremism, they should be more pro-active about it. Otherwise I feel that Islam has no proper way to deal with these violence acts and jihad or that the emphasis is not on peace, tolerance, forgiveness but on revenge.

[damjan193]

Personally for me, it's becoming harder and harder to believe that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam itself simply because of the fact that there are too often these acts of violence and terror in recent times being connected to the name of Islam. I accept the fact that the majority of Islamic practitioners are peaceful and Islamic extremism is the minority and should not be equated to the mainstream Islam. However, if that is the case, what are the authorities of main stream Islam doing about this? Shouldn't they be more vocal about condemning these acts of violence and terror? It is just too quiet from the majority of mainstream muslims and especially from the higher authorities. I have acquaintances, educated mainstream muslims, doctors and engineers, they are not radicals at all. However, I've seen them express openly their happiness when 911 happened. It's along the lines of serves them right, or they got it coming and some even were half cheering. If mainstream Islam wants to detach itself from Islamic extremism, they should be more pro-active about it. Otherwise I feel that Islam has no proper way to deal with these violence acts and jihad or that the emphasis is not on peace, tolerance, forgiveness but on revenge.

Do you really believe that this is happening because of religion and faith? Islam is only used as a kind of a motivation for the extremists, and an extra tool to manipulate them. It could have been the case with any religion actually, including Christianity. The fact that they are Muslims isn't the reason for this violence.

Honestly mate, what kind of an opinion do you expect people from Islamic countries to have regarding the events of 9/11? It's a fact that the USA and the rest of the western world has occupied those Islamic countries, so you can't really expect Muslims to be friendly towards the West. NATO bombed Serbia, a Christian country, in 1999. Do you believe Serbians felt sympathy when 9/11 happened? I mean, sure, they probably felt sorry for the loss of innocent lives, anyone with a sane mind would, but deep down, all of them felt that the Americans got what was coming to them.

I know it's easier to blame this whole situation on Islam and savage Muslims, but the people of the USA and the rest of the western world should also have in mind the policy that their countries have towards the Islamic world.

[devaney]

Personally for me, it's becoming harder and harder to believe that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam itself simply because of the fact that there are too often these acts of violence and terror in recent times being connected to the name of Islam. I accept the fact that the majority of Islamic practitioners are peaceful and Islamic extremism is the minority and should not be equated to the mainstream Islam. However, if that is the case, what are the authorities of main stream Islam doing about this? Shouldn't they be more vocal about condemning these acts of violence and terror? It is just too quiet from the majority of mainstream muslims and especially from the higher authorities. I have acquaintances, educated mainstream muslims, doctors and engineers, they are not radicals at all. However, I've seen them express openly their happiness when 911 happened. It's along the lines of serves them right, or they got it coming and some even were half cheering. If mainstream Islam wants to detach itself from Islamic extremism, they should be more pro-active about it. Otherwise I feel that Islam has no proper way to deal with these violence acts and jihad or that the emphasis is not on peace, tolerance, forgiveness but on revenge.

Do you really believe that this is happening because of religion and faith? Islam is only used as a kind of a motivation for the extremists, and an extra tool to manipulate them. It could have been the case with any religion actually, including Christianity. The fact that they are Muslims isn't the reason for this violence.

Honestly mate, what kind of an opinion do you expect people from Islamic countries to have regarding the events of 9/11? It's a fact that the USA and the rest of the western world has occupied those Islamic countries, so you can't really expect Muslims to be friendly towards the West. NATO bombed Serbia, a Christian country, in 1999. Do you believe Serbians felt sympathy when 9/11 happened? I mean, sure, they probably felt sorry for the loss of innocent lives, anyone with a sane mind would, but deep down, all of them felt that the Americans got what was coming to them.

I know it's easier to blame this whole situation on Islam and savage Muslims, but the people of the USA and the rest of the western world should also have in mind the policy that their countries have towards the Islamic world.

I'm confused to be honest with your assessment. You state that Islam is used as the motivation but it has nothing to do with faith? These murderers were not your everyday uneducated feral style yobs and neither were the Al-Qaeda suicide bombers that committed the 9/11 atrocity killing thousands of innocent people which you seem to actually support and sympathise with. I apologise if you are not a sympathiser but it is certainly how you are coming across. Extremists of relatively high intelligence do not simply throw away their lives for no reason unless they have faith and belief in what they are doing. On these occasions faith in Islam was their motivation. War is a drastic and unsatisfactory way for counties to settle their differences and is usually an act of last resort. Terrorism on the other hand is the act of delusional and cowardice extremists.To suggest they don't have faith and belief in what they are doing is a little naive. On this occasion their faith, however distorted, was in Islam.

[LFC2007]

Personally for me, it's becoming harder and harder to believe that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam itself simply because of the fact that there are too often these acts of violence and terror in recent times being connected to the name of Islam. I accept the fact that the majority of Islamic practitioners are peaceful and Islamic extremism is the minority and should not be equated to the mainstream Islam. However, if that is the case, what are the authorities of main stream Islam doing about this? Shouldn't they be more vocal about condemning these acts of violence and terror? It is just too quiet from the majority of mainstream muslims and especially from the higher authorities. I have acquaintances, educated mainstream muslims, doctors and engineers, they are not radicals at all. However, I've seen them express openly their happiness when 911 happened. It's along the lines of serves them right, or they got it coming and some even were half cheering. If mainstream Islam wants to detach itself from Islamic extremism, they should be more pro-active about it. Otherwise I feel that Islam has no proper way to deal with these violence acts and jihad or that the emphasis is not on peace, tolerance, forgiveness but on revenge.

Honestly mate, what kind of an opinion do you expect people from Islamic countries to have regarding the events of 9/11?

Absolutely shocking. Nothing more needs to be said about this particular poster.

Unfortunately maguskwt is right that the line of thinking that equates 9/11 and other terror attrocities with the interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq is in the mainstream in the Muslim world and for as long as it continues to be so we'll continue to see those attrocities being committed. Until you cut the justification for such actions out from under these people, they will continue to gain support, and continue to flourish.

[tubby]

Personally for me, it's becoming harder and harder to believe that Islamic extremism has nothing to do with Islam itself simply because of the fact that there are too often these acts of violence and terror in recent times being connected to the name of Islam. I accept the fact that the majority of Islamic practitioners are peaceful and Islamic extremism is the minority and should not be equated to the mainstream Islam. However, if that is the case, what are the authorities of main stream Islam doing about this? Shouldn't they be more vocal about condemning these acts of violence and terror? It is just too quiet from the majority of mainstream muslims and especially from the higher authorities. I have acquaintances, educated mainstream muslims, doctors and engineers, they are not radicals at all. However, I've seen them express openly their happiness when 911 happened. It's along the lines of serves them right, or they got it coming and some even were half cheering. If mainstream Islam wants to detach itself from Islamic extremism, they should be more pro-active about it. Otherwise I feel that Islam has no proper way to deal with these violence acts and jihad or that the emphasis is not on peace, tolerance, forgiveness but on revenge.

Do you really believe that this is happening because of religion and faith? Islam is only used as a kind of a motivation for the extremists, and an extra tool to manipulate them. It could have been the case with any religion actually, including Christianity. The fact that they are Muslims isn't the reason for this violence.

Honestly mate, what kind of an opinion do you expect people from Islamic countries to have regarding the events of 9/11? It's a fact that the USA and the rest of the western world has occupied those Islamic countries, so you can't really expect Muslims to be friendly towards the West. NATO bombed Serbia, a Christian country, in 1999. Do you believe Serbians felt sympathy when 9/11 happened? I mean, sure, they probably felt sorry for the loss of innocent lives, anyone with a sane mind would, but deep down, all of them felt that the Americans got what was coming to them.

I know it's easier to blame this whole situation on Islam and savage Muslims, but the people of the USA and the rest of the western world should also have in mind the policy that their countries have towards the Islamic world.

So your essentially saying the non nutter Mulsims should just bury their heads in the sand as these guys carrying out these acts are just using Islam for show. I suppose that's pretty much what they have done in the UK anyway. The truth however is the opposite. If the Muslim communities felt any sense of pride towards their religion and standing in this country they would not only recnognise there is a problem which stems from it's own community but they would make a concerted effort to expell these types from their communities. Whenever something like this happens you get the odd Muslim council leader or leader of this or that organisation come out and condemn but not once have they stood up and said ok we have a problem. We are proud to live here in the UK so we need to do something about it. They complain that the police and MI5 cannot bully or stand on their freedom of speech yet they are not willing to deal with the problem in house.

I'm afraid if they don't do this soon then the country will introduce hard measures to combat this. And not only that but the entire Muslim population here will find itself not only tarred with the same brush but it will also find itself subject to increasing resentment from the rest of the country. It hasn't helped that this country has lost its' backbone so is happy to let these hard line Immams preach hatred in front of Mosques on our streets.

I was listening to a talk show today and they said the government needs to review the treason act. Basically if you so much as talk against this country in the manner of subhumans such as that Anjem Choudry then you will be expelled from here. Pretty hard line IMO but I think it's what's needed at this point. The muslim community have shown they are incapable of getting their hands around this problem which is born out of their own house so hard line measures need to be taken.

[damjan193]

You guys misunderstand me. I'm not justifying the violators or the Muslim communities for not recognizing this as a problem. I'm simply defending Islam as a religion (few years back I'd probably kick my self for doing it). You guys search for a motive for their hostility, and you believe that their only motive is Islam, thus implying that the religion Islam encourages violence. I am sick of hearing ***** like that. It is true that Islam is a used as a motivation for the Muslim extremists, but this could be done with any religion. I mean, it's not like it hasn't happened with Christianity looking centuries back. To put it simply, Muslims or not, this Sh*t wouldn't have happened if you guys didn't invade their homes. That's the main motive, not Islam.

[tubby]

Nobody invaded their homes. Saddam was a dictator and most of the killing was Iraqi on Iraqi, sunni vs shia... and it was the Sunnies who brought in AQ too. And as for Afghanistan your telling me they are not better off without the Taliban? Some of the practices over there are a throwback to the stone ages. Your talking as if the British and UK armies just went over there and shot up everyone for no reason.

Anyway your whole premise is rubbish tbh mate. 'It can happen to any religion....' So you still do not think the Muslim communities should shoulder some responsability for this?

At least this guy does.

U.K. Beheading Shows It's Time To Fight the Doctrine of Jihad

When buses and trains exploded on 7/7 in London, the objective of the suicide bombers was to sow fear and terror in the very soul of the British people.

In that the jihadis were successful.

One would have expected the British authorities to not just hunt down the terrorists, but also to fight the cancer of Islamism that lies at the ideological roots of jihadi terrorism. Instead, successive governments in London have tried to pussyfoot around the challenge, hoping the jihadi terrorists and their ideology would melt away with time as Downing Street funded so-called "moderate" Muslim groups and "former" extremists to do the government's bidding.

As the brutal hacking death of a British soldier by two fearless jihadis chanting "Allah O Akbar" has shown, this strategy has failed. Muslims who see the West as the enemy and seek its destruction have become even more emboldened by the lack of resolve, which they see as cowardice. In addition, jihadis in the U.K. are no longer restricted to the second generation Pakistani Britons; they now come from places as far apart as Chechnya and Nigeria.

While the run-of-the-mill jihadi terror attack relies on suicide bombers and remote-controlled improvised explosive devices, Wednesday's attack came straight from medieval times, with the two jihadis using knives and cleavers to hack away at the victim and then beheading him. If this was not enough, they played to the gallery, demanding they be filmed as they chatted with passers-by, proudly defending their actions and promising more attacks on non-Muslims to come.

If the latest act of jihadi terror was different in nature, the reaction by mainstream Islamic groups and prominent Muslims in Britain was not. It was exactly the same as it has been after every tragic incident. Old press releases were brushed off and sent afresh to the media.

While ordinary Britons and non-Muslims around the world are bewildered by these never-ending acts of terrorism, the response of the leaders of the Islamic community is the tired old cliche -- Islam is a religion of peace, and jihad is simply an "inner struggle."

The fact these terrorists are motivated by one powerful belief -- the doctrine of armed jihad against the "kuffar" (non-Muslims) -- is disingenuously denied by Islamic clerics and leaders.

Yesterday, instead of calling on Muslims to shelve the doctrine of armed jihad, predictably, the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) issued a quick press release claiming the "barbaric" attack has "no basis in Islam."

Not true, MCB. As a Muslim, I can say without fear, the latest terror attack has a basis in Islam and it's time for us Muslims to dig our heads out of the sand.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... _hp_ref=tw

[Eagle]

I'm now officially disgusted with my country and some of the people who are allowed to leave here.

A young man killed just because he is in the military !! In his own f*cking country by two Islamic people.

"Islamic people"!

People who follow the religion of Islam

As in Muslims.

[damjan193]

UK didn't go there to kill everyone for no reason. But neither did they went there in the name of human rights. They went there to take advantage of the situation for personal gain, and that counts as "invading homes".

As for Islam, you completely misunderstand my point once again tub. Understandable though, because you people have been fed with the same ***** about how evil Islam is for decades. I didn't say that Muslim communities shouldn't take responsibility about what's happening. I actually recommended the opposite. Since people are spreading violence in the name of something that your community believes in, you should definitely condemn it and take actions to prevent it. That I agree with. But because someone is spreading violence in the name of a religion, it doesn't mean that the religion encourages it. People can be manipulated into doing something with any religion, as has been the case with Christianity. I don't want to make an example with a long trip to the past , but I'm sure you know how Christians were encouraged to kill infidels because it was "God's will" and how they tried to conquer the "holy land" in the name of God.

So if Islam isn't the problem, then what is? What's their motive? Why are they aggressive towards us? When the theory of "evil Islam" falls, these will be the next questions, and there is an answer to them but you refuse to believe it.

[devaney]

Damjan

I certainly don't profess to understand the motivation behind an individual that is prepared to give their life to a cause they believe in.

Religion related acts of violence and extreemism have gone on for centuries and one thing is certain, not one faith can claim to be innocent of not having committed acts of atrocity. I would not try and make excuses for the behaviour of so-called Christians in the same way that you are very conveniently blaming the behaviour of these two murdering cowards on the West. You seem to think that Muslim's are devoid of all blame and that nobody should be surprised when they blow up buses, pilot planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent people and behead a decent bloke in broad daylight.

If you think that Muslim's have behaved without creating some of their own problems I strongly suggest you read this: http://www.historytoday.com/roger-boase ... sion-spain

Sadam Hussein is an appalling example of how Muslim's who have different beliefs cannot live together. Perhaps you will try and convince me that Hussein's killing of his own people had nothing to do with religion.