Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

I think some people care too much about what other people are doing, rather than themselves.

who do you think pays for it?

Pays for what? Benefits? Don't give me that oul sh*te. The way some people bang on, they'd think that their taxes go directly to people who deliberately take advantage of the system, which is exactly what it is - a system. If you want to play that card, then taxes go directly into making guns, ammo, bombs etc etc, all designed for killing people, yet I see no one complain about that! Oh, and medical supplies, doctor's wages etc etc. But correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you get a P45 once you're out of a job? Who pays for that?

[Big Niall]

and I am financially responsible for the people who are too lazy to work (not the people who lost jobs in last year or so) because......

I don't give a f*ck about the bums who never work and have no intention to work. I'd see them starve to death before I'd give them my money.

The only free travel I'd give them is a train ticket to Auschwitz

They are parasites, take our money and give nothing back.It is a disgrace that you compare the military who die for their country to these scumbags.

[LFC2007]

Taxpayers are entitled to act with dismay at with whatever they like; be it 'genuine' dole dossers (to use the popular vernacular) or costly military interventions.

I would take issue with those who assume those receiving benefits are 'too lazy to work', which seems to be quite a common perception these days. Take the right approach, dig deep enough and you'll almost always find that it isn't actually the case. You'll get those who know no better - stuck in a spiral of dependency if you like, burdened by the unemployment their descendants suffered from - they could certainly appear to be 'too lazy to work' but they've learned to live under those conditions - it forms their very outlook, but with regret that concept doesn't seem to resonate with too many people. If there was no help, there's a fair chance it would be all they ever knew - people raised in very difficult circumstances rarely just transform into model citizens all by themselves; it's often a demanding task rehabilitating someone to return to society proper.

My point then is, if you're prepared to empathise with the man who - through no fault of his own - lost his job in an economic downturn, why should the same standard not apply to those who have suffered similar, if misunderstood, misfortunes? Those born into families with a history of generational unemployment; those born into destitution without the means, privilege or grounding to know how to move forward?

Finally, should we really attach these prejorative tags without a full understanding of a person's circumstances? Without that analysis a moral judgment should not be made, in my opinion.

[Emerald Red]

Taxpayers are entitled to act with dismay at with whatever they like; be it 'genuine' dole dossers (to use the popular vernacular) or costly military interventions.

I would take issue with those who assume those receiving benefits are 'too lazy to work', which seems to be quite a common perception these days. Take the right approach, dig deep enough and you'll almost always find that it isn't actually the case. You'll get those who know no better - stuck in a spiral of dependency if you like, burdened by the unemployment their descendants suffered from - they could certainly appear to be 'too lazy to work' but they've learned to live under those conditions - it forms their very outlook, but with regret that concept doesn't seem to resonate with too many people. If there was no help, there's a fair chance it would be all they ever knew - people raised in very difficult circumstances rarely just transform into model citizens all by themselves; it's often a demanding task rehabilitating someone to return to society proper.

My point then is, if you're prepared to empathise with the man who - through no fault of his own - lost his job in an economic downturn, why should the same standard not apply to those who have suffered similar, if misunderstood, misfortunes? Those born into families with a history of generational unemployment; those born into destitution without the means, privilege or grounding to know how to move forward?

Finally, should we really attach these prejorative tags without a full understanding of a person's circumstances? Without that analysis a moral judgment should not be made, in my opinion.

In an ideal world, more people would be as open-minded.

[tonyeh]

The system sure does create some unintended consequences, but that shouldn't obscure the fact that in most cases it's not that people don't want to work. In many instances there is simply a lack of opportunity - be it employment, training or education, in others there is a lack of reward or fair working conditions. In most cases where work is available there are often deep-rooted social problems that often lead to crime, apathy and other such social ills. The necessary social provision is lacking in many of these respects and in the very worst of circumstances benefits are an essential lifeline. It's a complex and varied issue that shouldn't be reduced according to what you glean from the rags, or your mates down the pub, and while the balance ought to be corrected for some of the instances Kharhaz describes, some of the more draconian sentiment expressed really does ignore the scope of the problem.

Very well said, sir.

It's too easy for some to look down on others in society without even giving them a second thought about their personal circumstances. People assume too much.

Bang on LFC2007.

The welfare system in Ireland (and in Britain too, I'd imagine) is absolutely essential to the harmony of the Country.

The reason is simple. There just isn't enough work to go around at certain periods and people have to survive.

Sure, there will always be abusers of the system. There are ALWAYS those who abuse sound systems, no matter what that system is. But, by and large, the welfare system is there to help people who find themselves out fo work for one reason or another.

It never ceases to make me laugh though, all of these high and mighty soapboxers who think people on the dole are somehow there by choice and are living the life of Riley, having a great time, while the rest of us have to go out to work. The vast, vast majority of people who find themselves on the live register absolutely dread it. It can be a soul destroying experience and wish for nothing more than to be empolyed in a decent job.

I know a guy over here in Ireland, who always had the same old tired line about people on the dole being worthless scroungers...well, that mouthy pr[B]ick lost his job when the corp. he was working for pulled out of Ireland. He's now been on the "rock'n'roll" for 4+ months, with no sign of a job coming his way.

His tune has changed somewhat.

[redbeergoggles]

The system sure does create some unintended consequences, but that shouldn't obscure the fact that in most cases it's not that people don't want to work. In many instances there is simply a lack of opportunity - be it employment, training or education, in others there is a lack of reward or fair working conditions. In most cases where work is available there are often deep-rooted social problems that often lead to crime, apathy and other such social ills. The necessary social provision is lacking in many of these respects and in the very worst of circumstances benefits are an essential lifeline. It's a complex and varied issue that shouldn't be reduced according to what you glean from the rags, or your mates down the pub, and while the balance ought to be corrected for some of the instances Kharhaz describes, some of the more draconian sentiment expressed really does ignore the scope of the problem.

Excellent post fella
Highlights eloquently  the misconception of the sadly many  ...

However It truly is a sad indictment of the times we find ourselves living in, when we hear such disheartening stories such as the disgraceful treatment afforded to Ciggy and her child on re-entering her place of birth .

The Goverment and bureaucrats have managed to brainwash half the country into the general consensus is it is the great unwashed that is bringing this country to its knees ..................
    ITS A FABRICATION

[Big Niall]

There should be no dole in the good times. Work or go hungry, then they'd get off their asses and work. Why is my sandwich in the local shop made by a Chinese guy (not slagging him off ) while a dosser stays at home on the dole.

Forcing the dosser to work , would mean, by your own argument, that his children would also work.

There is a shortage of jobs right now so the unemployed should get the dole but three years ago? no way!

ZERO DOLE IN GOOD TIMES.

[tonyeh]

There should be no dole in the good times. Work or go hungry, then they'd get off their asses and work. Why is my sandwich in the local shop made by a Chinese guy (not slagging him off ) while a dosser stays at home on the dole.

Forcing the dosser to work , would mean, by your own argument, that his children would also work.

There is a shortage of jobs right now so the unemployed should get the dole but three years ago? no way!

ZERO DOLE IN GOOD TIMES.

Be careful what you wish for...

[Emerald Red]

There should be no dole in the good times. Work or go hungry, then they'd get off their asses and work. Why is my sandwich in the local shop made by a Chinese guy (not slagging him off ) while a dosser stays at home on the dole.

Forcing the dosser to work , would mean, by your own argument, that his children would also work.

There is a shortage of jobs right now so the unemployed should get the dole but three years ago? no way!

ZERO DOLE IN GOOD TIMES.

Honestly, it's a good job people like your opinion don't run countries. Oh, wait...

Seriously, some of your views at times are just ludicrous.

[redbeergoggles]

There should be no dole in the good times. Work or go hungry, then they'd get off their asses and work. Why is my sandwich in the local shop made by a Chinese guy (not slagging him off ) while a dosser stays at home on the dole.

Forcing the dosser to work , would mean, by your own argument, that his children would also work.

There is a shortage of jobs right now so the unemployed should get the dole but three years ago? no way!

ZERO DOLE IN GOOD TIMES.

This has just provided beyond all doubt , the  confirmation that the "Let them eat cake "philosophy still sadly exists in modern society, instead of being pushed into extinction with other Dickensian beliefs ...

[mistyred]

Ciggy and Dawson are feckin legends

[Number 9]

There should be no dole in the good times. Work or go hungry, then they'd get off their asses and work. Why is my sandwich in the local shop made by a Chinese guy (not slagging him off ) while a dosser stays at home on the dole.

Forcing the dosser to work , would mean, by your own argument, that his children would also work.

There is a shortage of jobs right now so the unemployed should get the dole but three years ago? no way!

ZERO DOLE IN GOOD TIMES.

Very narrow minded opinion!
You've obviously never lost your job....In the "good times" I was lucky enough to pick up the phone if I lost a job and get a trial the following Monday,always got kept on.
Out of the 17 years I have been able to work,5 months I was out of work and could not get a job no matter how hard I tried...i have paid tax every week like everyone else,so I went to the dole and got what I was entitled to and help with housing!
No fuc'king shame whatsoever,I've paid thousands into the treasury like millions of others!

To say no dole in the good times is a ridiculous thing to come off with.No matter how good the economy is there are always people looking work that cant get it....always!

The government need to work out a system that can set apart the dossers(who deserve feck all if they REFUSE to work) and the people that genuinely want to work.........practically impossible to do though!
Saying this I wonder if the dossers dole was stopped would they get up at 6-30 every morning and do a days graft...or would more choose a life of crime??

No brainer there...thats part of why the dole for dossers exists..unfortunately!

[dawson99]

you cant blame the government for society. these people need sorting out.
dunno how they can look themselves in the mirror bnut i guess some people are just scum. they should be found out, and deported somewhere like canada

[redbeergoggles]

I think Canada on a whole would have something to say with the deportation of all these underachievers into their place of birth , in fact lets do a clean sweep and bring the stocks back, public humiliation should do them no harm at all ,or maybe a short stint in the army that surely is a job to die for (pardon the pun ),you just keep averting your eyes from the real disease that is defiling the country  ,and keep blaming someone else .

(Anyone else from the tunnel vision club ) e-mail  your suggestions  to :www.bringbackdickensianbritain.co.uk 

[redbeergoggles]

I think in general this thread is starting to seriously wind people up ,myself included there is to much scope for truly crass and puerile observations from the blinkered minority