Liverpool FC Forum

[metalhead]

Its too early to say, but Rafa is making it harder on himself.

But, Moratti should stick to him until the end of the season like every club should do.

I'll say this again, Rafa has been there before and got out of it, time will tell, Inter need to pick up

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Maybe fans like Ben Patrick prefer to support the current manager, I know I do.

Rafa has been found out, there can be no excuses, he inherited a CL and Serie A winning team and is making them into an average team. What will it take for you to see Rafa for what he is or will you always have some convenient excuse, much like the "great" man has himself?

Your completely correct I will always deliver a convenient excuse probably along the lines of 2005 was the greatest European campaign I have ever witnessed with teams like Juventus and Chelsea being contemptuously cast aside ,and culminating in the greatest European final ever ...then I might make such ridiculous claims that no other manager since Evans has got even close to the Mancs whilst playing brilliant attacking football ....then I could reminisce about Rafa and the respect he had for us supporters and the club .....then I could round that off with the statement "HE REALLY GOT US " ...but that would probably still cause unrest to the people still sitting in the dark
So Im not going to mention any of them .... I would simply say move on ..... and its not your fault your not quite as perceptive as others

[maguskwt]

Its amazing how blinkered some people can be.

C'Mon Ben, you've spent the last two pages saying Benitez is a sh*te manager and been found out. The man won 2 La Ligas and the UEFA Cup with Valencia and the CL and FA Cup with Liverpool. Not the CV of a sh*t manager. The blinkers that large parts of this forum suffer from are in relation to their standings against the other side in the Pro/Anti debate. Every piece of rationality seems to have long since disappeared in that department. One the one hand, people are praying for the day when Benitez walks through the Shankly Gates again as manager, and the other is guys like yourself just ommitting his entire history as a manager except the last 18 months. Until last night I though a touch of common sense had been restored to Newkit but it seems I jumped to conclusions.

FWIW I think the problems at Inter lie with Rafas playing style rather than the injuries or him being a "sh*t" man manager. He inherited a side that under Mourinho liked to sit deep and counter whereas Rafa plays a high tempo pressing game that, in my estimation anyway, he was never going to convince an experienced side that had just won everything to buy into, nevermind fully commit to building up the sheer athleticm it takes implement such a tactic. Lucio, Zanetti, Cambassio even Sneijder - great players but not exactly bursting with energy and pace. Take a look at the slow tempo of Italian football in general then compare it how Rafa set out at Anfield on most European nights. Pressing high up the pitch with everyone working hard to close down opponents not giving them a second on the ball - Italy hadnt seen a tackle in the opposing end in 40 years ffs! Defending starts in your own half and with the exception of Samuel Eto'o who had been playing the pressing style with such success under Guardiola at Barca in my opinion anyway no one at Inter wants to know about "high tempo" and "playing between the lines"

Very good post... I find it pathetic really all these posters who are just waiting for inter to lose and then come on this thread posting this and that... Focus on your own team and your own manager! LOL

I've never seen a former LFC manager being scrutinized for his every move after he has left us as much as Rafa. Surely something is very wrong there. It's called obsession. Did we have a thread on Houllier's next team after LFC? how bout Evans?

[Ben Patrick]

Its amazing how blinkered some people can be.

C'Mon Ben, you've spent the last two pages saying Benitez is a sh*te manager and been found out. The man won 2 La Ligas and the UEFA Cup with Valencia and the CL and FA Cup with Liverpool. Not the CV of a sh*t manager. The blinkers that large parts of this forum suffer from are in relation to their standings against the other side in the Pro/Anti debate. Every piece of rationality seems to have long since disappeared in that department. One the one hand, people are praying for the day when Benitez walks through the Shankly Gates again as manager, and the other is guys like yourself just ommitting his entire history as a manager except the last 18 months. Until last night I though a touch of common sense had been restored to Newkit but it seems I jumped to conclusions.

FWIW I think the problems at Inter lie with Rafas playing style rather than the injuries or him being a "sh*t" man manager. He inherited a side that under Mourinho liked to sit deep and counter whereas Rafa plays a high tempo pressing game that, in my estimation anyway, he was never going to convince an experienced side that had just won everything to buy into, nevermind fully commit to building up the sheer athleticm it takes implement such a tactic. Lucio, Zanetti, Cambassio even Sneijder - great players but not exactly bursting with energy and pace. Take a look at the slow tempo of Italian football in general then compare it how Rafa set out at Anfield on most European nights. Pressing high up the pitch with everyone working hard to close down opponents not giving them a second on the ball - Italy hadnt seen a tackle in the opposing end in 40 years ffs! Defending starts in your own half and with the exception of Samuel Eto'o who had been playing the pressing style with such success under Guardiola at Barca in my opinion anyway no one at Inter wants to know about "high tempo" and "playing between the lines"

serious question.

What has he won or done since pako and him parted companies ?

Brian Clough was the same with Peter Taylor and royally fecked up at Leeds but realised he needed his no2 back and went begging.
Rafa wouldnt do that but appears to have lost his way.
In no way am i forgetting trophies he has won.
But they are in the past and he doesnt appear to be able to adapt to change.
You could be right about why they are failing regarding him playing a pressing style of football, but if they dont have the players to do that why change it so quickly ?

[LFC2007]

What's the point in a change of style if it means you aren't remotely competitive? Totally ludicrous this idea that changing a formula that generated a team of treble winners was in any sense a sensible approach to take. On the point about the aging squad, this is the same aging squad that only months ago was winning everything on offer. It didn't affect the team then, so why should it suddenly become a factor now? Moreover, AC Milan's squad (and first team) is laced with players aged over 30: Abbiatti, Nesta, Seedorf, Ambrosini, Pirlo, Zambrotta, Gattuso, Ronadinho.

[burjennio]

My point LFC wasnt the age of the squad but how much hunger a squad of older players could really have to change their style after winning everything they could have last year. I am certain that a few of them dont have the desire to improve their fitness to such a level required to play the default Rafa strategy (the Brazilians ). Its also hard to motivate some personalities when they feel they have nothing left to prove. I know alot of you want to say "haha Rafa is awful" and to be honest the man has gave you plenty of ammunition ove the last 18 months but my opinion is that its only a blip because his CV really says as much.

AC Milan play a game to suit their players, they sit deep and look to get it to Ibra quickly and have Ronaldino, Pirlo or Robinho link up with him and counter. Its working for them because Ibra is dynamite in Italy because of the time he is afforded on the ball.

[tubby]

What's the point in a change of style if it means you aren't remotely competitive? Totally ludicrous this idea that changing a formula that generated a team of treble winners was in any sense a sensible approach to take. On the point about the aging squad, this is the same aging squad that only months ago was winning everything on offer. It didn't affect the team then, so why should it suddenly become a factor now? Moreover, AC Milan's squad (and first team) is laced with players aged over 30: Abbiatti, Nesta, Seedorf, Ambrosini, Pirlo, Zambrotta, Gattuso, Ronadinho.

Change of manager generally means change of style. Especially when you go from 1 experienced manager to another. Were people expecting Benitez to follow Joses same path and play the way he plays? Come on.

Also the aging squad is a factor when injures crop up, which they have done this season plenty a time.

[dawson99]

but Bav, by now even a blind man can see that whatever Rafa is trying to do, just aint working... in the CL this week I have ever seena  team want to play so little for a manager. He needs to stop being stubborn and mix things up a bit or hes in a lot of trouble

[LFC2007]

Well obviously not everything can be the same, but that doesn't mean it makes sense to fundamentally change the way the team plays. Neither is it an excuse that some personalities might now be harder to motivate after such a successful season, because for one we don't know that's the case, for two the opposing argument is just as strong if not stronger and for three, if they are demotivated then it's the manager's job to get them fecking motivated.

The frustrating thing is that if Roy or Mourinho had taken the treble winning side to such depths, people would be as frank as anything about it. But because they have such a strong emotional attachment to Rafa, they feel they have to deploy all sorts of excuses to explain away his apparent failure.

[The_Rock]

One thing about benitez is that he is very focused. I guess he got orders from the inter owner that the immediate priority is the world club championship. So he might be putting all his eggs in that basket.

This further re-iterates the point that benitez just can't multi-task. Give him one task at a time....and he is pretty good in achieving it (qualifying for knockout stages...beating teams in europe).

But when he takes on many tasks...thats when he loses focus. The final nail in the coffin for his time in LFC was when he decided to take over the youth system. He just couldn't focus on what he does best......coaching the team (he said in 10 times....remember )

[Ben Patrick]

What's the point in a change of style if it means you aren't remotely competitive? Totally ludicrous this idea that changing a formula that generated a team of treble winners was in any sense a sensible approach to take. On the point about the aging squad, this is the same aging squad that only months ago was winning everything on offer. It didn't affect the team then, so why should it suddenly become a factor now? Moreover, AC Milan's squad (and first team) is laced with players aged over 30: Abbiatti, Nesta, Seedorf, Ambrosini, Pirlo, Zambrotta, Gattuso, Ronadinho.

Change of manager generally means change of style. Especially when you go from 1 experienced manager to another. Were people expecting Benitez to follow Joses same path and play the way he plays? Come on.

Also the aging squad is a factor when injures crop up, which they have done this season plenty a time.

if its one that is a winning formula then why not.
Also Rafa should have an idea on what the age of his squad is and the suitability of them changing so quickly to his methods.

I cant see any defence at all for the way he has started his job.
They havent started even ok, they have been similar to what we were last season, disastrous.
The same players that won everything last season, as i said its inexcusable.

[Red-er-Dare]

I bet those who go on about Rafa as though he is the only manager in LFC's history are dying to say give the man time at Inter, but unfortunately they are tied and bound by the sheer hypocrisy they'd exhibit for not having the same patience for Roy. As we well know, those who LOVE Rafa detest Roy because it was him who succeeded there pin-up manager at LFC, and they still have the time to find ample excuses for his latest unfortunate demise in football.

PS: I don't hate Rafa but I dislike the numpties who swear blind the man is the best thing since sliced bread [because of course they're soooo wrong ]

[burjennio]

I bet those who go on about Rafa as though he is the only manager in LFC's history are dying to say give the man time at Inter, but unfortunately they are tied and bound by the sheer hypocrisy they'd exhibit for not having the same patience for Roy. As we well know, those who LOVE Rafa detest Roy because it was him who succeeded there pin-up manager at LFC, and they still have the time to find ample excuses for his latest unfortunate demise in football.

PS: I don't hate Rafa but I dislike the numpties who swear blind the man is the best thing since sliced bread [because of course they're soooo wrong ]

Yeah your really showing them now. 

[ruskiy playmaker]

Juve and Lazio should be a good game tomorrow.  Can't wait.

[Ciggy]

I bet those who go on about Rafa as though he is the only manager in LFC's history are dying to say give the man time at Inter, but unfortunately they are tied and bound by the sheer hypocrisy they'd exhibit for not having the same patience for Roy. As we well know, those who LOVE Rafa detest Roy because it was him who succeeded there pin-up manager at LFC, and they still have the time to find ample excuses for his latest unfortunate demise in football.

PS: I don't hate Rafa but I dislike the numpties who swear blind the man is the best thing since sliced bread [because of course they're soooo wrong ]

If they win the world club champions he wil have won 3 trophys already, whats Roy ever won? Og yeah the LMA from the Fergie wine club, seriously how anyone can mock Rafa when we have this clueless feckin owl face in charge is a hypocrit !!!!