Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Manhattan Project** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

Funny how you go back to how hes a cheat, drug addict and what hes won all the time, do them things make him a great/sh.it footballer?

Yes of course. It's self-evident.

that's a funny post and the sad thing is you actually believe it ?

I do. The facts don't lie.

You deny Maradona's greatness - even though the people you happily quote above (living of course) have declared him the best

Well, I would be very surprised if Gerd Muller declared himself the greatest footballer of all time.

You don't like him so you don't rate him - admit it.

I rate him, I just don't rate him as highly as you do.

But don't destort debate that has been had and done !

There has been no debate. Only insults towards Manhattan, and Manhattan responding with factual evidence to back up his arguments.

Digo is the one of the bets footballers to have ever palyed the beautiful game -

Not sure who "Digo" is, but you aren't claiming that he is "one" of the best.

You say that he IS the best. I disagree.

to have acheived the level of skill he did is but a dream of many good players - a plateau many will not reach.

Others have reached and surpassed it.

It takes a lot of skill admittedly to slam dunk a ball.

Unfortunately, it was during a football match, not a basketball game.

by **zarababe** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:42 am

Only in America !

by **GOAT** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:35 am

The Manhattan Project wrote:
Funny how you go back to how hes a cheat, drug addict and what hes won all the time, do them things make him a great/sh.it footballer?

Yes of course. It's self-evident.

that's a funny post and the sad thing is you actually believe it ?

I do. The facts don't lie.

You deny Maradona's greatness - even though the people you happily quote above (living of course) have declared him the best

Well, I would be very surprised if Gerd Muller declared himself the greatest footballer of all time.

You don't like him so you don't rate him - admit it.

I rate him, I just don't rate him as highly as you do.

But don't destort debate that has been had and done !

There has been no debate. Only insults towards Manhattan, and Manhattan responding with factual evidence to back up his arguments.

Digo is the one of the bets footballers to have ever palyed the beautiful game -

Not sure who "Digo" is, but you aren't claiming that he is "one" of the best.

You say that he IS the best. I disagree.

to have acheived the level of skill he did is but a dream of many good players - a plateau many will not reach.

Others have reached and surpassed it.

It takes a lot of skill admittedly to slam dunk a ball.

Unfortunately, it was during a football match, not a basketball game.

lol on you lad, you talk sh.it

Messin but, how the fu.ck does him being a cheat or a druggie make him any less of a fantastic FOOTBALLER?

Why does the fact he hasnt won tons of trophies like european cups make him a sh.it FOOTBALLER? Since when is football a one man sport? Isnt tennis you know

Not explaining any of your reasoning, just going round in circles and calling him a cheat or druggie, that has nothing to do with his footballing talent

I tend to judge a footballer on his ability rather than whether he could have been a saint or what hes managed to win.

Traores won the European cup you know.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:59 am

Messin but, how the fu.ck does him being a cheat or a druggie make him any less of a fantastic FOOTBALLER?

Not explaining any of your reasoning, just going round in circles and calling him a cheat or druggie, that has nothing to do with his footballing talent

I tend to judge a footballer on his ability rather than whether he could have been a saint or what hes managed to win.

For me, the mark of "greatness" extends beyond just what a sportsperson does on the field, or on the court, or in the ring. Mike Tyson for example was a champion, but his career is tainted IMO by his detestable behaviour. I consider a wider range of factors.

Why does the fact he hasnt won tons of trophies like european cups make him a sh.it FOOTBALLER? Since when is football a one man sport? Isnt tennis you know

I never said he was a sh*t footballer. But simply that in terms of skills and honours, others have done what he has done, to a greater extent. If football isn't a one-man sport, then it really does the rest of the Argentinian 1986 World Cup winning squad a disservice for anyone to say that Maradona "single-handedly" won the cup.

Traores won the European cup you know.

He did. But common sense would be used to mark out exceptional players, rather than those who played a marginal role in a winning team who enjoy consistent success at the highest levels. Maradona was a exceptional player for good and bad reasons, but the greatest ever? I dispute that.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:14 pm

LFC #1 wrote:
Big Niall wrote:I didn't call him a fool for not thinking that Maradonna was the greatest footballer ever but for thinking that he wasn't even a contender.

I don't think Muhammid Ali is the greatest boxer ever but you'd have to mention him in the discussion.

If I was English I'd be p1ssed off about the hand ball but England cheated all match long with their fouls, Fenwick elbowed him in the face earlier.

Does Zidane's head butt mean that he wasn't a great player, every other player that dived.

We are judging the footballer - not the man. I don't like the man but the footballer is the best I've ever seen with something to spare.

Exactly. I supect if he wasn't Argentine and hadn't "cheated" against England then their wouldn't even be this debate.

Maradona, Pele, Zidane - the 3 who I would consider to be the greatest ever.

Cruyff, Van Basten, Eusebio, Puskas, Ronaldo, Romario, Best and Beckenbauer all deserve a mention too.

The only other player I'd add to that next tier is Di Stefano. Sadly lack of TV deprives us of most of his skills but books and others that played with him rate him as an all timer. Pele said that he was the greatest Argentine but that was probably because Pele felt threatened at polls which showed Maradonna as the greatest ever.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:15 pm

The people who mention Ronaldo in the same bracket should be brought out and shot. :angry:

by **LFC #1** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:40 pm

Big Niall wrote:The people who mention Ronaldo in the same bracket should be brought out and shot.

Forgot Di Stefano.

Asd for ronaldo, he's worhty of metnion IMO. One of the best stirkers of the last two decades IMO.

He's sustained so many injuries yet has been able to continue scoring goals wherever he's gone. He's made a noticeable difference for Milan in Serie A already - 7 in 12 games. At his peak (playing for Barca and Inter) he was unstoppable and had he not sustained so many injuries he would be right up with the best ever IMO.

62 goals in 97 interntionald is an exceptional record!

His club record in Europe is as impressive - 201 goals in 275 games - 0.73 goals a game, which is incredible. If he plays 38 league games every season then he would be averaging
27/28 goals a season, which is an unbelievable stat!

His record and achievments are right up there with the best strikers ever to play the game. You can't deny the talent.

by **stmichael** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:46 pm

how ac milan could have done with ronaldo last night.

by **LFC #1** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:00 pm

Just for comparison:

- di Stefano in his 11 years at Real scored 219 in 282 appearenes - 0.78 a game

- Romario in Europe alone (PSV, Barca and Valencia) scored 137 in 166 appearences - 0.82 a game: His international record is also excellent with 56 in 71.

- Van Basten at club level got 218 in 280 - 0.78 a game - only 24 in 58 for Holland though.

- Pele is still greatest with 0.97 a game at club level and 77 goals in 92 matches for Brazil.

- Gerd Mueller has 0.82 goals a game for club and 68 in 62 for West Germany.

- Puskas had ratio of 0.87 at Real Madrid and scored 84 goals in 85 games for Hungary.

- Eusebio scored 317 goals in 301 games for Benfica - 1.05 goals per game!

by **GOAT** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:33 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:
Messin but, how the fu.ck does him being a cheat or a druggie make him any less of a fantastic FOOTBALLER?

Not explaining any of your reasoning, just going round in circles and calling him a cheat or druggie, that has nothing to do with his footballing talent

I tend to judge a footballer on his ability rather than whether he could have been a saint or what hes managed to win.

For me, the mark of "greatness" extends beyond just what a sportsperson does on the field, or on the court, or in the ring. Mike Tyson for example was a champion, but his career is tainted IMO by his detestable behaviour. I consider a wider range of factors.

Why does the fact he hasnt won tons of trophies like european cups make him a sh.it FOOTBALLER? Since when is football a one man sport? Isnt tennis you know

I never said he was a sh*t footballer. But simply that in terms of skills and honours, others have done what he has done, to a greater extent. If football isn't a one-man sport, then it really does the rest of the Argentinian 1986 World Cup winning squad a disservice for anyone to say that Maradona "single-handedly" won the cup.

Traores won the European cup you know.

He did. But common sense would be used to mark out exceptional players, rather than those who played a marginal role in a winning team who enjoy consistent success at the highest levels. Maradona was a exceptional player for good and bad reasons, but the greatest ever? I dispute that.

Fair enough, but for me football greatness lies on what a player does on the pitch

by **zarababe** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:08 pm

Big Niall wrote:
LFC #1 wrote:
Big Niall wrote:I didn't call him a fool for not thinking that Maradonna was the greatest footballer ever but for thinking that he wasn't even a contender.

I don't think Muhammid Ali is the greatest boxer ever but you'd have to mention him in the discussion.

If I was English I'd be p1ssed off about the hand ball but England cheated all match long with their fouls, Fenwick elbowed him in the face earlier.

Does Zidane's head butt mean that he wasn't a great player, every other player that dived.

We are judging the footballer - not the man. I don't like the man but the footballer is the best I've ever seen with something to spare.

Exactly. I supect if he wasn't Argentine and hadn't "cheated" against England then their wouldn't even be this debate.

Maradona, Pele, Zidane - the 3 who I would consider to be the greatest ever.

Cruyff, Van Basten, Eusebio, Puskas, Ronaldo, Romario, Best and Beckenbauer all deserve a mention too.

The only other player I'd add to that next tier is Di Stefano. Sadly lack of TV deprives us of most of his skills but books and others that played with him rate him as an all timer. Pele said that he was the greatest Argentine but that was probably because Pele felt threatened at polls which showed Maradonna as the greatest ever.

Very true - the fact is that many of us witnessed Maradona's magic, his skill, his influence and people or should I say TMP talks about cheating - well the amount of callous fouls and elbows Diego took :no

if that ain't cheating then don't know what is in fact the play was 'illegal' agianst him, and refs were not as protetctive in the beginning. Infact the way the he was treated led to the the stringent changes in refreeing which were emodied in Mexico 1986- however he overcame that to lead and inspire an ordinary team to become world champions.

I have all the 1986 world cup games on video - when I get nostalgic I watch them and the commentators are oozzing -licking their lips, Diego aroused that in professional people who had watched the games for years.

It is a game of opinions and we all have our favs, but nearly all the most respected professional players old and new, commentators and managers will talk 'Maradona' - in fact our own Stevie Gerrard sights him as the greatest - there is no debate.

Footballers are a product of the society they are not apart from it, some shine in their private lives others don't - but purely on a footballing level he was awesome - genius skills perfect balance and you asked yourself; 'was the ball tied to his laces' I think if you blinked it certainly looked like it!

by **The Manhattan Project** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:07 pm

The people who mention Ronaldo in the same bracket should be brought out and shot

Why?

He's the greatest goalscorer in the history of the World Cup.

Maradona's team won the World Cup in 1986.

Ronaldo's team won the World Cup in 2002.

What has Maradona done that is greater than Ronaldo?

by **red37** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:30 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:Manhattan doesn't care about the burger-related weaknesses of others. If Maradona wants to eat, drink and snort himself into oblivion, then so be it.

By far and away the funniest line ive seen in this thread - by a mile :laugh:

by **Big Niall** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:17 am

LFC #1 wrote:
Big Niall wrote:The people who mention Ronaldo in the same bracket should be brought out and shot.

Forgot Di Stefano.

Asd for ronaldo, he's worhty of metnion IMO. One of the best stirkers of the last two decades IMO.

He's sustained so many injuries yet has been able to continue scoring goals wherever he's gone. He's made a noticeable difference for Milan in Serie A already - 7 in 12 games. At his peak (playing for Barca and Inter) he was unstoppable and had he not sustained so many injuries he would be right up with the best ever IMO.

62 goals in 97 interntionald is an exceptional record!

His club record in Europe is as impressive - 201 goals in 275 games - 0.73 goals a game, which is incredible. If he plays 38 league games every season then he would be averaging
27/28 goals a season, which is an unbelievable stat!

His record and achievments are right up there with the best strikers ever to play the game. You can't deny the talent.

I meant the Man utd guy. :laugh:

I agree the Brazilian is one of the best in last 20 years.

by **LFC #1** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:15 pm

Big Niall wrote:
LFC #1 wrote:
Big Niall wrote:The people who mention Ronaldo in the same bracket should be brought out and shot.

Forgot Di Stefano.

Asd for ronaldo, he's worhty of metnion IMO. One of the best stirkers of the last two decades IMO.

He's sustained so many injuries yet has been able to continue scoring goals wherever he's gone. He's made a noticeable difference for Milan in Serie A already - 7 in 12 games. At his peak (playing for Barca and Inter) he was unstoppable and had he not sustained so many injuries he would be right up with the best ever IMO.

62 goals in 97 interntionald is an exceptional record!

His club record in Europe is as impressive - 201 goals in 275 games - 0.73 goals a game, which is incredible. If he plays 38 league games every season then he would be averaging
27/28 goals a season, which is an unbelievable stat!

His record and achievments are right up there with the best strikers ever to play the game. You can't deny the talent.

I meant the Man utd guy.

I agree the Brazilian is one of the best in last 20 years.

Oh right.

TBH he hadn't even been mentioned in the thread so assumed you were talking baout Luiz Nazario cos I listed him in my post before.

As for Cristiano, he's talented but far too early to be mentioning him as anywhere near any of the guys mentioned.

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