Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu the Red]

I think if you put Skrtel in any team that utilizes a more rigid back four then he would become  a monster ,the fact he is having to defend the flanks that
are left uncontrolled and exposed when fullbacks go missing( Johnson being public enemy No.1) would have a marked effect on any defenders  game.

As for Sakho I think he has the air of a commanding CB ,and the sooner we pair him up with a quality partner( perhaps Ilori ) the more we introduce a solidity
that comes with knowing each others strengths and weaknesses.

I believe we need to replace Johnson with young Flanno ,as I think he has grown as a defender whilst producing performances of real maturity,and I would
love us to sign Siqueira for the LB berth who can battle it out with Enrique for a starting spot.......


In summation I would conclude that the expansive football we're currently playing in affording our fullbacks to get forward is exposing our two CB's to a great
deal of pressure from both flanks,so we need to find a balance next season that suits us both defensively and offensively.

Or we could leave the balance as it is and simply find better defenders that can do the basics?

Skrtel is a complete liability and always has been. He makes the most basic errors at times its quite shocking. Agger is never fit enough to gain any sort of form.

A lot of the goals we've conceeded this season have been down to errors from the defenders rather than style. Against Cardiff at the weekend was one of the few games this season were it was down to shape rather than mistakes.

Skrtel always has and always will make far to many mistakes, especially in the system we use and is a centre half with some amateurish attributes.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Or we could leave the balance as it is and simply find better defenders that can do the basics?

How the fuck can a balance exist if the offensive side of our game is vastly out playing the defensive   
As regards Skrtel, that same liability went some way to rescuing the whole performance on Saturday with two
not one but two well taken poachers goals ,aside from that he had to cover the flanks exposed by our fullbacks
gallivanting up the field, one with less than selfless intentions determined to make the squad for Brazil .

I also believe a vast amount of our games have been lost through to shape ,rather than personal mistakes ,as
if the shape had retained a degree of rigidity then it would have afforded us less mistakes,it certainly wasn't
just Cardiff .

[Stu the Red]

Or we could leave the balance as it is and simply find better defenders that can do the basics?

How the fuck can a balance exist if the offensive side of our game is vastly out playing the defensive   
As regards Skrtel, that same liability went some way to rescuing the whole performance on Saturday with two
not one but two well taken poachers goals ,aside from that he had to cover the flanks exposed by our fullbacks
gallivanting up the field, one with less than selfless intentions determined to make the squad for Brazil .

I also believe a vast amount of our games have been lost through to shape ,rather than personal mistakes ,as
if the shape had retained a degree of rigidity then it would have afforded us less mistakes,it certainly wasn't
just Cardiff .

Really you need that explaining to you?

You don't think its possible to play the same style of play but with better defenders?

No-one ever said Skrtel wasn't a threat from set pieces either, but that does not justify the silly errors he makes all season.

You may class losing basic headers, shirt pulling instead of challenging for balls, poor decisions, not knowing when to hold a position and poor attempts to close the ball down in general play as "team shape" but I'm not as mis guided and ill informed... and certainly don't.

Team shape comes from three or four small errors, not pathetic game changing ones like the one against Chelsea or the two goals he was at fault for in the City game... Team shape doesn't account for his error's 9/10 and while he's capable of having good games and good performances, he has far to many shockers in a season.

You can continue the Skrtel love in all you like, the fact will always remain, since he became a regular in our backline, we've gone from conceding less than a goal a game to well over a goal a game and he's the biggest reason.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Really you need that explaining to you?

You don't think its possible to play the same style of play but with better defenders?

You need me to explain the word balance first ,otherwise this debate is going nowhere lad 

And I quote :

"Or we could leave the balance as it is"

[Stu the Red]

Again!!

[jacdaniel]

We play as a team.  Somtimes the fullbacks bombing forward leaves us exposed.
Sometimes, as was the case in the first half at Cardiff, we don't get our pressing game going.  Strikers and midfield also to blame.
And we tend to fall asleep sometimes.

I'm not so sure its just down to personnel.  I believe Rodgers will make some tweaks this summer.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Again!!

At the very least I have a direction lad ....Let me explain, if one teams attack is infinitely better than their defence, then there is
no balance  ....Could we start with that ,or could we at least concur that a CB continually being pulled out of his comfort zone is
more prone to mistakes than being part of a back four that keeps its shape ?

Throw me a bone lad 

[Stu the Red]

Again!!

At the very least I have a direction lad ....Let me explain, if one teams attack is infinitely better than their defence, then there is
no balance  ....Could we start with that ,or could we at least concur that a CB continually being pulled out of his comfort zone is
more prone to mistakes than being part of a back four that keeps its shape ?

Throw me a bone lad 

You've used the word balance in a completely different context. Most footballing people when talking about balance are usually refering to a system rather than the quality of the personal being better at one end of the pitch than the other.

Maybe you should be more clear in future

[Stu the Red]

We play as a team.  Somtimes the fullbacks bombing forward leaves us exposed.
Sometimes, as was the case in the first half at Cardiff, we don't get our pressing game going.  Strikers and midfield also to blame.
And we tend to fall asleep sometimes.

I'm not so sure its just down to personnel.  I believe Rodgers will make some tweaks this summer.

So does that account for players losing basic headers, allowing the ball to needlessly run out of play because they're treating it like a hot potato etc etc?

I think not... it would excuse a lack of pace or someone being exposed one on one as such, it excuses some "could do better moments"... but it doesn't excuse trying to rip someones shirt off instead of trying to head the ball, thats just plain stupidity.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

You've used the word balance in a completely different context. Most footballing people when talking about balance are usually refering to a system rather than the quality of the personal being better at one end of the pitch than the other.

Maybe you should be more clear in future

Then that would be when I was explaining about the disproportionate amount of importance we put on our attack rather than equating the two 
I'm lost now Stu ,because I'm sure it was you who was talking about the personnel we currently have at our disposal .....I need to go back to bed
obviously this flu is affecting my memory 

Regardless of context though ,our team is clearly



I may be jumping the gun here ,but could we possibly agree on that ?

[Thommo's perm]

Like Sean Connery said in The Untouchables:
"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue.They score 15, you score 16.That's the Liverpool way!"

[JC_81]

I'm with Stu on Skrtel to be honest.  I've never rated the lad, always thought that despite his appearance he's a fairly soft defender.  Gets bullied far too easily by physical attackers and therefore has to resort to shirt tugging and rugby tackling.  That said I think his performance level has gone up slightly this season and he's had some good defensive displays (Southampton away for example) as well as some great goalscoring displays v Arsenal and Cardiff.

But I don't think he's first XI material if we want to consistently challenge for the league and compete in the CL again.  I also think he's the type of player who when not played regularly loses confidence and form dramatically - so he's no good as a back up centre half.  Personally I think the time is right to sell in the summer.  His stock will be high and he's still just the right side of 30.

I also think though that we could have the best back 4 in Europe and still concede a lot with our style of play.  I don't think our defenders are bad, but they're made to look worse when both full backs push on and Gerrard doesn't offer much protection in the deep lying role imo.

Like some have already said it's all about balance.  I think we have shown it when we needed to... beating Spurs, Everton, Arsenal, United and in the undeserved loss at City.... but we throw caution to the wind against the lesser sides.

It annoys me when folk say 'we can't afford to play like that against City and Chelsea defensively', because history suggests we don't.... look at our goals conceded in all the big games.  We'll probably concede more in our next 2 games v Sunderland and Spurs than in the games left v City and Chelsea because we'll go for the jugular.  It's refreshing, exciting and brilliant.... but bad for the nerves!!

[7_Kewell]

Assuming we qualify for the CL if we're to make any significant progress in that competition as well as maintaining our domestic revival next season our defence has simply got to be improved, to ignore it would be foolish, bordering on the criminal.

It's the CL games next season that worries me most about our defence. In those type of games you will get a handful of chances to score and any mistakes at the back will mean the difference between winning and losing.

If it was down to me, I'd ship out Agger and bring in Luke Shaw and Steven Caulker. Both are talented players and both would improve our back 4.

i dont know abt caulker being a upgrade over agger, did he just mis-headed the ball for suarez to run away and square to sturridge to score?

He did, but he's only 22 and a bit of a rough diamond in my book. Line him up alongside Sakho and I think we'd have the makings of a great defence...

[woof woof !]

For christs sake ! We're looking at strengthening our defence, and some are flagging up a "defender" who's been no more than average in a side that's conceded almost 60 goals and is destined for relegation !

Get a grip for fks sake !!!

[stmichael]

The issue will be addressed in the summer. As for now, what we're doing is working so we should just enjoy it while it lasts. Our defensive record against the top teams has actually been pretty good in comparison to against the lesser sides when we can merely rely on our attacking ability to blow them away and outscore them.

For me, Sakho should come in for Agger against Sunderland and stay in the side with Skrtel for the remainder of the season.