Liverpool FC Forum

[kazza]

Was something in the Guardian today about the club denying that Henry is looking to sell up for £350Mil. I know they denied it but honestly speaking long term how do they see themselves making any profit but allowing us to survive on the bare minimum? The only real damper in the article was that there were 2 more Americans interested in buying us. 

A Saudi Oil company worth trillions was also mentioned

ARAMCO are a business and they will be out to make a profit, not like the City sheiks.

[redno7]

I like fsg. I am grateful for the good work they've done so far, saving us from admin, buying them 2 dickheads out. But I'd not want more American owners. Basically,  fsg are feking minted so if they don't invest money into us then no other yanks will. Fsg have had loads of opportunities to stick millions into this club but they always said we'd be self funding, right from the start so we can't really grumble.

[eds]

I think that most of the saavy fans are now starting to realise the con job that is underway in slowly turning this club into mid-table rubbish and unfortunately FSG are at the heart of the problem.

It's been 3 years since Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum were kicked back across the pond and for fans to still be using FSG's "achievements" in "saving" the club from bankruptcy back then is slowly starting to wear thin in 2013.

Since then THEY have hardly done anything right:

From their deafening silence when the "Negrito" Manure-led scandal broke out and every single clueless Tom, Dick and Harry laid into our proud club. 
From hanging Kenny out to dry when he was the only person defending our club and Suarez 
From hiring Commolli and then firing him shortly after he made the most catastrophic transfer mistakes in our club's history. 
From crudely handling Kenny's dismissal 
From hardly being around and only available via a phone on the other side of the world when a major incident involving the club has started un-folding 
From hiring one of the most inexperienced managers in the history of the club and then not BACKING him with funds to rebuild the playing list   
From approaching Manure for "tips and hints" on how to return to our successful golden days   

And now we are signing players that bottom to mid-table teams in the EPL would be chasing.  Outside of Mignolet all poor and ineffective to say the least and reminiscent of an era that led to Benitez's departure. Yet these aren't the same owners, so let's not say anything to upset the status quo.

No wonder Suarez has started blurting out to the media he wants to leave, you only reap what you sow and after 3 years FSG have by in large sowed mediocrity and irrelevance into the club. But hey we are making a profit    so let's all get excited at the one thing which is essentially a bare minimum in the governance of one of the world's biggest footbal clubs. 

[Rush Job]

I think that most of the saavy fans are now starting to realise the con job that is underway in slowly turning this club into mid-table rubbish and unfortunately FSG are at the heart of the problem.

It's been 3 years since Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum were kicked back across the pond and for fans to still be using FSG's "achievements" in "saving" the club from bankruptcy back then is slowly starting to wear thin in 2013.

Since then THEY have hardly done anything right:

From their deafening silence when the "Negrito" Manure-led scandal broke out and every single clueless Tom, Dick and Harry laid into our proud club. 
From hanging Kenny out to dry when he was the only person defending our club and Suarez 
From hiring Commolli and then firing him shortly after he made the most catastrophic transfer mistakes in our club's history. 
From crudely handling Kenny's dismissal 
From hardly being around and only available via a phone on the other side of the world when a major incident involving the club has started un-folding 
From hiring one of the most inexperienced managers in the history of the club and then not BACKING him with funds to rebuild the playing list   
From approaching Manure for "tips and hints" on how to return to our successful golden days   

And now we are signing players that bottom to mid-table teams in the EPL would be chasing.  Outside of Mignolet all poor and ineffective to say the least and reminiscent of an era that led to Benitez's departure. Yet these aren't the same owners, so let's not say anything to upset the status quo.

No wonder Suarez has started blurting out to the media he wants to leave, you only reap what you sow and after 3 years FSG have by in large sowed mediocrity and irrelevance into the club. But hey we are making a profit    so let's all get excited at the one thing which is essentially a bare minimum in the governance of one of the world's biggest footbal clubs. 

Exactly, if we are making a profit then why are we not spending it?

[SouthCoastShankly]

Was something in the Guardian today about the club denying that Henry is looking to sell up for £350Mil. I know they denied it but honestly speaking long term how do they see themselves making any profit but allowing us to survive on the bare minimum? The only real damper in the article was that there were 2 more Americans interested in buying us. 

Why are you so angry?

Ever thought they denied it because there wasn't any approach and the story was just a rumour?

Additionally, what makes you think that the FSG investment strategy is about bare minimum? You need to look back over the transfers son, you wanna see what bare minimum is then look at Arsenals transfer activity for the last 4 seasons.

My opinion is that FSG will not increase their investment level until the business finances allow them to do so, inevitably this means CL football.

[Benny The Noon]

Was something in the Guardian today about the club denying that Henry is looking to sell up for £350Mil. I know they denied it but honestly speaking long term how do they see themselves making any profit but allowing us to survive on the bare minimum? The only real damper in the article was that there were 2 more Americans interested in buying us. 

Why are you so angry?

Ever thought they denied it because there wasn't any approach and the story was just a rumour?

Additionally, what makes you think that the FSG investment strategy is about bare minimum? You need to look back over the transfers son, you wanna see what bare minimum is then look at Arsenals transfer activity for the last 4 seasons.

My opinion is that FSG will not increase their investment level until the business finances allow them to do so, inevitably this means CL football.

Arsenal have spent over a hundred million in the last two years - the difference with Arsenal is they are actually in the CL - Arsenal have also managed to build and now pay off a brand new shiny stadium which now increases their income - the level of spending in recent seasons has been the managers personal choice as opposed to owners putting the shackles on.

Even without CL football we had the 6th biggest income and with the added telly money this summer ( about £50 mil ) plus the wage saving over the last 18 months I would ask where is our money going ? If FSG don't increase their investment then we won't reach the CL - thinks its really that simple.

Also I would like to know what is happening in regards the stadium

My own personal feeling is they didn't realise how expensive the game of football was and didn't realise it need some really big investment in both the team and club - they had one big summer where we spent over £50mil and now we seem to be scratching around for bargains whilst our rivals are looking at the quality players without being afraid of the price tags. If FSG aren't going to invest in the team ( beyond what we ourselves earn ) then the only way they will make any profit is to sell up now before we stagnate even further. The owners I expect thought FFP would be a game breaker - as we can see this summer - clubs don't seem to care

[SouthCoastShankly]

Was something in the Guardian today about the club denying that Henry is looking to sell up for £350Mil. I know they denied it but honestly speaking long term how do they see themselves making any profit but allowing us to survive on the bare minimum? The only real damper in the article was that there were 2 more Americans interested in buying us. 

Why are you so angry?

Ever thought they denied it because there wasn't any approach and the story was just a rumour?

Additionally, what makes you think that the FSG investment strategy is about bare minimum? You need to look back over the transfers son, you wanna see what bare minimum is then look at Arsenals transfer activity for the last 4 seasons.

My opinion is that FSG will not increase their investment level until the business finances allow them to do so, inevitably this means CL football.

Arsenal have spent over a hundred million in the last two years - the difference with Arsenal is they are actually in the CL - Arsenal have also managed to build and now pay off a brand new shiny stadium which now increases their income - the level of spending in recent seasons has been the managers personal choice as opposed to owners putting the shackles on.

Even without CL football we had the 6th biggest income and with the added telly money this summer ( about £50 mil ) plus the wage saving over the last 18 months I would ask where is our money going ? If FSG don't increase their investment then we won't reach the CL - thinks its really that simple.

Also I would like to know what is happening in regards the stadium

My own personal feeling is they didn't realise how expensive the game of football was and didn't realise it need some really big investment in both the team and club - they had one big summer where we spent over £50mil and now we seem to be scratching around for bargains whilst our rivals are looking at the quality players without being afraid of the price tags. If FSG aren't going to invest in the team ( beyond what we ourselves earn ) then the only way they will make any profit is to sell up now before we stagnate even further. The owners I expect thought FFP would be a game breaker - as we can see this summer - clubs don't seem to care

Nice try.

How about we look at net spend yeah?

Arsenal net spend since moving to the Emirates -

(http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier ... sfers.html)

06/07 £17M PROFIT
07/08 £13.4M SPEND
08/09 £3.5M PROFIT
09/10 £31M PROFIT
10/11 £6.8M SPEND
11/12 £17.5M PROFIT
12/13 £8.6M SPEND

Since moving the the Emirates in 2006, Arsenal have only had a net profit of £40M!

Your argument that you cannot achieve CL without heavy investment has no substance whatsoever when Arsenal and Borussia Dortmund are used for comparison. Arsenal recouped £120M from the sale of RVP, Fabregas, Song, Adebayor and Nasri and reinvested it, there was minimal fresh cash injected by the club for investment in players - to suggest otherwise is plainly false. Stop trying to manipulate the facts to suit your argument, you're like the forum spin doctor. But a Sh*t one.

I maintain the fact that under the correct guidance, you can achieve CL qualification without a heavy investment strategy in the squad.

[Kenny Kan]

I believe if Arsenal carry on their current trend they'll drop out the CL placings over the next year or so. Spurs will overtake them, there only hanging on by a thread now IMO.

There ambition is no better if not worse than ours. It won't be long before they drop out.

Granted, they've had 16 consecutive seasons of CL football so Wenger has probably more than any other manager earned his money but even then with the likes of Nasri, Fabregas, RVP and others leaving it shows even with CL these players feel Arsenal really aren't all that ambitious. They're happy just to make top 4 now, they don't even bother contesting the league.

[Benny The Noon]

Dortmund don't play in the prem - you can't use them as a guiding light when they play in a totally different league.
Unless you can highlight someone in the prem that has done what Dortmund have - answer - no one

Arsenal for years bought quality players when needed and then relied on a couple of players to keep them up - when those players started to leave they then started to actually spend some money - since Fabregas left then RvP and Nasri etc they have had to spend money - £100mil in the last two years - it was helped by them being able to sell players for high prices. Wenger himself realises he needs to improve his team and spend big on players hence why he is trying to spend over £40mil on one player. Arsenal realise you have to spend that money to stay in the CL let alone get back into it. Spurs it looks like are going to push their spending as well to get into the CL

You name me a team that has gone from the lower places to the CL regulalry without spending money - in this country where it matters to us.

[Kenny Kan]

Dortmund don't play in the prem - you can't use them as a guiding light when they play in a totally different league.
Unless you can highlight someone in the prem that has done what Dortmund have - answer - no one

Arsenal for years bought quality players when needed and then relied on a couple of players to keep them up - when those players started to leave they then started to actually spend some money - since Fabregas left then RvP and Nasri etc they have had to spend money - £100mil in the last two years - it was helped by them being able to sell players for high prices. Wenger himself realises he needs to improve his team and spend big on players hence why he is trying to spend over £40mil on one player. Arsenal realise you have to spend that money to stay in the CL let alone get back into it. Spurs it looks like are going to push their spending as well to get into the CL

You name me a team that has gone from the lower places to the CL regulalry without spending money - in this country where it matters to us.

You hate being a Liverpool supporter, yet blow smoke up Arsenal's ar.se for spending money when SCS has already shown you they don't! I believe as previously stated with that current trend they will drop out.

Arsenal send 8M on players like Podolski - buys and prices you moan about. Wenger is renowned for finding cheap gems, another policy you hate. You change your argument to suit and it's full of holes and contradictions.

In your words regarding Liverpool, until Arsenal actually sign a player for 40 million, I'll see it when I believe they are actually willing to do that - because they have failed miserably so far this summer.

[Redman in wales]

I understand your point Benny, but stop using Arsenal as an example when we've outspent them.

In last 3 years they've spent £120m (gross) on players, and we've spent £180m (gross). In the last 3 years, their most expensive purchase has been Cazorla at £20m, then their next most expensive is £13m on Giroud. In that same period we've spent £35m on Carrol, £23m on Suarez, £20m on Downing, £16M on Henderson, £15m on Allen...

I know they're "bidding" (and by bidding I mean offering less than a players actually worth) - but let's not forget, they've not actually spent ANY money yet.

I get what your trying to say, but I think Arsenal are a bad example.

[jacdaniel]

Everytime I think of FSG I can't help but remember Christian Purslows email below.  As much as we hated him... I've not seen much from FSG to suggest that he was wrong.

They've dont a decent job since arriving but I don't think we'll ever be competing with the top clubs while they're in charge.

In the email sent to his fellow directors Broughton, Ian Ayre and Philip Nash on 15 September 2010, Purslow wrote: "To get it straight, I think we should avoid the natural temptation to jump straight in to the deal with NESV. Whilst they are charming, intelligent and credible their bid is by any standards at the extreme bottom end of the 'right deal' threshold we set for ourselves: it only reduces debt by less than half and is I feel unlikely to yield incremental equity to fund a stadium.

"They may say they have money if necessary but I do not take this very seriously. Their eyes only lit up at the idea of other opportunity improvements. An American deal guy simply can't avoid using other people's money if they can.

"There is no extra money on the table to enable short-term investment in what remains a squad palpably needing more quality if we are to be definitively top four. New American sport team owners with the senior guy being a hedge fund manager could not be worst [sic] from an image standpoint, which is an issue for us independents. I have not even talked about valuation. I leave that to other members of the board. So what is positive? Answer, they exist. Which is not a lot, but it is not to be underestimated in importance."

Purslow added that the board should "double check that none of the possibles who have come and gone in the last 18 months to apparent levels lower than Sharjah but higher than NESV are not there. So I repeat this is a bottom of the barrel outcome."

The email is one of 75,000 that allegedly refer to the sale process, with the Sharjah reference believed to be that of an earlier £600m offer from the Middle East. The case continues.

[Benny The Noon]

Sorry I mentioned Arsenal because its a bit false when people say they haven't spent money when they clearly have. They are also starting from a better position than us - they need to spend to stay in the CL , Spurs need to get a couple quality players to challenge them - we need about 4 quality players to get close to them - we have a big gap to close. The last team to jump from the lower places into CL was City and they spent big.

Wenger I believe realises that he can't rely on the squad he has and needs it improving - think he realised it when Fabregas and Nasri went - then RvP and he went out and spent money. They did need to spend big to get into the CL because they were already there.

Spurs are trying to get the quality players they need to get CL - Paulinho already got , Soldaldo in talks - if Bale does go then I think it's safe to assume they will spend big to get more players.

We aren't currently - but we need too. Our squad isn't good enough to qualify for CL at the moment - there are glaring weaknesses ( I don't think BR sees one of them ) that we need filling with real quality. If we don't improve that quality then it will be another season of scrapping it out with the BS for 6th

[Redman in wales]

Sorry I mentioned Arsenal because its a bit false when people say they haven't spent money when they clearly have. They are also starting from a better position than us - they need to spend to stay in the CL , Spurs need to get a couple quality players to challenge them - we need about 4 quality players to get close to them - we have a big gap to close. The last team to jump from the lower places into CL was City and they spent big.

Wenger I believe realises that he can't rely on the squad he has and needs it improving - think he realised it when Fabregas and Nasri went - then RvP and he went out and spent money. They did need to spend big to get into the CL because they were already there.

Perhaps another way of looking at this, and maybe the main reason why we shouldn’t be talking about Arsenal is that they’re not spending to improve their league standing. They’re only spending to tread water. They finished 4th, 3rd, 4th in their last 3 seasons. Yes they’re spending more to STAY in the champions league, so they can afford to spend less than us and spurs who want to break in to the top 4, but they’re also not advancing at all. They’re merely treading water. Wenger and the Arsenal board, whilst top 4 is priority, surely the overall target is to win the league, or to be challenging for it – which would probably involve spending twice as much as they have done. So to Arsenal fans, they’ve probably not shown any ambition at all to kick on from where they are

[Benny The Noon]

Yes that is very true - Wenger appears to do the bare minimum to keep them in the CL. So their spending will be different to us and we need to bridge the gap to them - but I think it's going to be Spurs that will jump ahead - especially if they get Soldaldo.