Liverpool FC Forum

I think we all needed a lift after the poor season so far.. the injury to Konate and the lack of investment has deflated us even further. Klopp trusts the lads to step up so we have to get behind them and hopefully we pull off a miracle and get into the top 4.

Miracles are possible lads, the scenes when we win UCL Lol dare to dream....Spirit of 05.

This season is unfortunately becoming a write off, more of a worry is long term. If we want to keep up with the top side we heavily must invest in the right players this summer.

It was a risky strategy last summer to put all our eggs in the Tchouameni basket. We seem to be following the same strategy with Bellingham this summer. I really hope Klopp and the recruitment team have some cast iron alternatives to freshen up the midfield.

Yeah I'd be worried about the insistence on it only being Bellingham. That situation has the potential to last the summer. If he isn't a Liverpool player after the 1st week then we should walk away.  All clubs will meet the asking price so it will be down to him.

I would sell Fabinho and Thiago. Think the league has become to much for them to keep pace with. Bring in belling ham and 2 other lads that have a bit of experience around the 25 to 27 age group.  Bellingham on his own wouldnt be enough imo. I wouldn't give Bobby a new deal either for the same reason. 

We need freshening up with a good few faces in the summer so we can change the mentality and morale within the squad in one hit.

Once again we totally failed to move on ANY of the deadwood.
The other issue is the fact the deadwood are largely English/homegrown players - Ox, Hendo, Milner etc.. so we need to replace with other English players to balance the squad.
Chelsea have just cost us another £20 million to buy Bellingham, they've lifted the bar to the next level.
The EPL is becoming a bit of a joke, the amount of money we spend on players but the headline in the paper today that the 'European Super League has been created - and it's in England' rings hollow because I'm not even sure we're involved.
FSG have let us down badly.

red till i die!! » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:13 pm wrote:Yeah I'd be worried about the insistence on it only being Bellingham. That situation has the potential to last the summer. If he isn't a Liverpool player after the 1st week then we should walk away.  All clubs will meet the asking price so it will be down to him.

I would sell Fabinho and Thiago. Think the league has become to much for them to keep pace with. Bring in belling ham and 2 other lads that have a bit of experience around the 25 to 27 age group.  Bellingham on his own wouldnt be enough imo. I wouldn't give Bobby a new deal either for the same reason. 

We need freshening up with a good few faces in the summer so we can change the mentality and morale within the squad in one hit.

Can’t say I agree on Thiago. He’s the only midfielder who comes out with any credit this year. He’s had plenty of good games and is still pressing and winning the ball. At times he’s been a one man midfield and is number 1 in the squad in duals won per game.

Henderson and Fabinho have been pretty awful all season. The bar is pretty low but Keita and Bajcetic have been a step up. I actually thought the fact we did so well last year and nearly won the quadruple masked the fact that Henderson was pretty poor. Without finding the data again, I recall that he’s only winning 0.8 duals a game this season, it was 1. something last season, and 2. something the year before. His decline since his groin surgery has been quite stark. Fabinho looked gassed towards the end of last season but I thought that was just due to the long season and after a summer break he’d be back to himself but if anything we’ve seen more of a drop. Although I do wonder how he would do with runners either side of him.

On Firmino, it just comes down to the contract. In Jota, Nunez, Gakpo, and Diaz, we already have 4 attackers who are yet to come into their prime years and adding Salah to that we've got a strong 5. You’d struggle to find a better 6th choice than Bobby but it can’t be 3/4 year contract on a basic wage of 150,000k. It has to be a shorter contract and the money has to reflect the fact he’s a squad player.

Eagle » Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:14 pm wrote:

red till i die!! » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:13 pm wrote:Yeah I'd be worried about the insistence on it only being Bellingham. That situation has the potential to last the summer. If he isn't a Liverpool player after the 1st week then we should walk away.  All clubs will meet the asking price so it will be down to him.

I would sell Fabinho and Thiago. Think the league has become to much for them to keep pace with. Bring in belling ham and 2 other lads that have a bit of experience around the 25 to 27 age group.  Bellingham on his own wouldnt be enough imo. I wouldn't give Bobby a new deal either for the same reason. 

We need freshening up with a good few faces in the summer so we can change the mentality and morale within the squad in one hit.

Can’t say I agree on Thiago. He’s the only midfielder who comes out with any credit this year. He’s had plenty of good games and is still pressing and winning the ball. At times he’s been a one man midfield and is number 1 in the squad in duals won per game.

Henderson and Fabinho have been pretty awful all season. The bar is pretty low but Keita and Bajcetic have been a step up. I actually thought the fact we did so well last year and nearly won the quadruple masked the fact that Henderson was pretty poor. Without finding the data again, I recall that he’s only winning 0.8 duals a game this season, it was 1. something last season, and 2. something the year before. His decline since his groin surgery has been quite stark. Fabinho looked gassed towards the end of last season but I thought that was just due to the long season and after a summer break he’d be back to himself but if anything we’ve seen more of a drop. Although I do wonder how he would do with runners either side of him.

On Firmino, it just comes down to the contract. In Jota, Nunez, Gakpo, and Diaz, we already have 4 attackers who are yet to come into their prime years and adding Salah to that we've got a strong 5. You’d struggle to find a better 6th choice than Bobby but it can’t be 3/4 year contract on a basic wage of 150,000k. It has to be a shorter contract and the money has to reflect the fact he’s a squad player.

I think that's where we've been going wrong with the senior players on new contracts. We keep giving Milner a £150k a week contract and he's a back up basically at this stage.. we should be offering 60-70k a week and free up some of the wage bill. I think Klopp is very loyal to his players and wants to reward them at all costs.

UvS xR4GEx » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:07 pm wrote:

Eagle » Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:14 pm wrote:

red till i die!! » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:13 pm wrote:Yeah I'd be worried about the insistence on it only being Bellingham. That situation has the potential to last the summer. If he isn't a Liverpool player after the 1st week then we should walk away.  All clubs will meet the asking price so it will be down to him.

I would sell Fabinho and Thiago. Think the league has become to much for them to keep pace with. Bring in belling ham and 2 other lads that have a bit of experience around the 25 to 27 age group.  Bellingham on his own wouldnt be enough imo. I wouldn't give Bobby a new deal either for the same reason. 

We need freshening up with a good few faces in the summer so we can change the mentality and morale within the squad in one hit.

Can’t say I agree on Thiago. He’s the only midfielder who comes out with any credit this year. He’s had plenty of good games and is still pressing and winning the ball. At times he’s been a one man midfield and is number 1 in the squad in duals won per game.

Henderson and Fabinho have been pretty awful all season. The bar is pretty low but Keita and Bajcetic have been a step up. I actually thought the fact we did so well last year and nearly won the quadruple masked the fact that Henderson was pretty poor. Without finding the data again, I recall that he’s only winning 0.8 duals a game this season, it was 1. something last season, and 2. something the year before. His decline since his groin surgery has been quite stark. Fabinho looked gassed towards the end of last season but I thought that was just due to the long season and after a summer break he’d be back to himself but if anything we’ve seen more of a drop. Although I do wonder how he would do with runners either side of him.

On Firmino, it just comes down to the contract. In Jota, Nunez, Gakpo, and Diaz, we already have 4 attackers who are yet to come into their prime years and adding Salah to that we've got a strong 5. You’d struggle to find a better 6th choice than Bobby but it can’t be 3/4 year contract on a basic wage of 150,000k. It has to be a shorter contract and the money has to reflect the fact he’s a squad player.

I think that's where we've been going wrong with the senior players on new contracts. We keep giving Milner a £150k a week contract and he's a back up basically at this stage.. we should be offering 60-70k a week and free up some of the wage bill. I think Klopp is very loyal to his players and wants to reward them at all costs.

We definitely need to have some lines in the sand when it comes to contracts like we did with Gini. Can't be giving everyone big contracts that take them through to their mid 30s.

I doubt very much Milner is on 150,000k a week. He signed on about that much in 2015 when he was at the peak of his powers and Rodgers wanted him for the starting 11. He's signed two extensions since then whilst he was considered nothing more than a versatile squad player, and it was widely report that when he signed the last extension in the summer he took a big pay cut.

Keita and Ox have reportedly been taking home around 120,00k each a week and generally we've haven't seen much return on that. Now we have Henderson contracted for another 2 years after this one and Fabinho for 3, and they are probably taking home close to 400,000k a week between then. There's been some poor squad management over the last few years.

Keep in mind that the above figures are just basic wages. The players see significant top ups depending on how much the club earns through prize/tv money. So if we're not in the CLs next year, we'll see a big reduction in both our revenue, but also payroll.

Eagle wrote:

red till i die!! » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:13 pm wrote:Yeah I'd be worried about the insistence on it only being Bellingham. That situation has the potential to last the summer. If he isn't a Liverpool player after the 1st week then we should walk away.  All clubs will meet the asking price so it will be down to him.

I would sell Fabinho and Thiago. Think the league has become to much for them to keep pace with. Bring in belling ham and 2 other lads that have a bit of experience around the 25 to 27 age group.  Bellingham on his own wouldnt be enough imo. I wouldn't give Bobby a new deal either for the same reason. 

We need freshening up with a good few faces in the summer so we can change the mentality and morale within the squad in one hit.

Can’t say I agree on Thiago. He’s the only midfielder who comes out with any credit this year. He’s had plenty of good games and is still pressing and winning the ball. At times he’s been a one man midfield and is number 1 in the squad in duals won per game.

Henderson and Fabinho have been pretty awful all season. The bar is pretty low but Keita and Bajcetic have been a step up. I actually thought the fact we did so well last year and nearly won the quadruple masked the fact that Henderson was pretty poor. Without finding the data again, I recall that he’s only winning 0.8 duals a game this season, it was 1. something last season, and 2. something the year before. His decline since his groin surgery has been quite stark. Fabinho looked gassed towards the end of last season but I thought that was just due to the long season and after a summer break he’d be back to himself but if anything we’ve seen more of a drop. Although I do wonder how he would do with runners either side of him.

On Firmino, it just comes down to the contract. In Jota, Nunez, Gakpo, and Diaz, we already have 4 attackers who are yet to come into their prime years and adding Salah to that we've got a strong 5. You’d struggle to find a better 6th choice than Bobby but it can’t be 3/4 year contract on a basic wage of 150,000k. It has to be a shorter contract and the money has to reflect the fact he’s a squad player.

I suppose you could say Thiago was the best of a bad bunch this season but I don't feel he's been great by any stretch. He's in the side to influence things and I don't see a lot happening. He's not robust enough either and will be 32 before this season is over. Hes worth something now imo.

I agree on Hendo but doubt we would be willing to let him go. English quota being probably the biggest reason. Fab has just lost so much pace and not just in the legs. Is late into a lot of challenges as well. I think he has passed his peak and is sellable.
I think Stefan has done really well and does play with maturity but has a bit to go still. I'd be happy to see them progress but at the minute we are over reliant. We need to replace Ox and Keita so if we did that with similar quality and kept the rest then that wouldn't be so bad. With Fab, Hendo and Thiago I just think it would be to risky to rely on them as the mainstays backed up by the 2 kids.

I don't think we need a 6th choice attacker like Bobby. Carvalho would fill that spot for me if needed. Pretty sure he played CM for Fulham so could be an option for us as well to keep his minutes up.

We have to stop being so loyal to players and transition them out of the team quicker. We can't hold on to them all till they retire.

'We have to stop being so loyal to players and transition them out of the team quicker. We can't hold on to them all till they retire.'

It's far cheaper to extend a contract than pay a transfer fee. I don't think it's loyalty but simply not wanting to join the other top clubs throwing money around like confetti.

It's nice for foreign owners to have the prestige of owning a club in the EPL compared to the French or Portuguese leagues, but the cost of membership is massive. We've gone from Trevor Francis the first £1 million pound player to players now costing £100 million. LFC need 5 new players in the next 2-3 seasons, better budget for £400-£500 million.... Every penny of revenue FSG have grown the club by is simply paying for higher wages and transfer fees. They're not really growing the business at all, they're just about keeping up. Just imagine the situation seen from the other side of the park... how can the small clubs compete?

João Palhinha at Fulham is an example that getting good midfield players doesn't have to take £100m+. Just know what you need, do your scouting and you'll find options that can work. Fulham got him as a 27 year old for £20 mil. Even if we had to pay a big club premium and got him for £35mil and let him go at 32 on a bosmon, it's the sort of thing that makes plenty of sense.

Eagle » Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:01 am wrote:João Palhinha at Fulham is an example that getting good midfield players doesn't have to take £100m+. Just know what you need, do your scouting and you'll find options that can work. Fulham got him as a 27 year old for £20 mil. Even if we had to pay a big club premium and got him for £35mil and let him go at 32 on a bosmon, it's the sort of thing that makes plenty of sense.

We have been making a lot of decisions that don’t make sense, we were such a clever club making all the right calls and now we can’t seem to plan around the obvious. It’s not money as we bought a player we didn’t really need at the time we bought him, we need at least three midfielders. Nunes was begging to come to us, and while I’m not convinced that he is a fantastic player, he is far better than what we have as at least he has energy and a desire to prove himself. We spent more on Gakpo than what Nunes would have cost. My guess is they want Bellingham and Rice for the English quota, my fear is we won’t get either.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... -champions

  been charged with over 100 breaches of the rules. 

Probably another fine looming as the Premier league hasn't the balls to do what needs to be done. They should be docked points and if that results in loss of silverware then so be it.

I'll be amazed if Man City pay a penny in fines.

I think Certainly they will pay fines, it is the one guarantee since it’s all the PL think about. Whether there will be points deductions and retroactive punishments is the only question. I think it will put a dent in their pursuit of Bellingham though. If they are punished like they should be it will be the end of them as a force. My gut tells me that if they are severely punished they will go into full kamakazi mode and probably give up secrets the PL doesn’t want given up, so that makes that unlikely. My guess would be some points deductions and a hefty fine.