Liverpool FC Forum

by **DrPepe** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:47 am

stmichael wrote:What annoyed me the most was the ref giving more and more time over the allowed and then when Utd eventually scored, he blew the game up immediately. Apparantly Carricks substitution was good for 2 mins added to overtime, and Owens goal was good for 16 seconds.

no consistency mate :veryangry

by **red37** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:51 am

Well said Ian.

Im still f*cking livid about this. The irony is palpable.

Also, IF Bellamy's celebrations took up the best part of a minute....were there NO additional scope calculated for incorporating Owen's? A mere 16 seconds?

Pah - you're fighting a two-headed beast. Beat Manchester United and there is still a further obstacle to overcome should you prevail....that being the establishment of the FA. Stinks.

If the same ever happened at Anfield - there would be uproar throughout the footballing land.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:53 am

Finally caught this match on replay last night and in addition to the shambolic time-keeping I thought United were very, very fortunate to say the least on two key free kick decisions: the one on Evra that led to Fletcher's second goal on 81 minutes and the one deep into injury time that ultimately led to the Owen winner. That later one, in particular, looked a foul committed by United rather than against them. Typical. :glare:

One bright note was Rio Ferdinand's rush of blood moment. Did he tell his brother he'd take some of the limelight off his massive mistake Saturday with an even stupider one of his own Sunday? Hilarious to watch, especially the reaction shots afterwards. He knew he was going to get mullered when he got off the pitch.

by **Dundalk** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:54 am

If there is time added on now for goal celebration then when we played Besiktas and beat them 8-0 we would have been playing till the next day.

Ridiculous

by **bigmick** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:09 am

Bad Bob wrote:Finally caught this match on replay last night and in addition to the shambolic time-keeping I thought United were very, very fortunate to say the least on two key free kick decisions: the one on Evra that led to Fletcher's second goal on 81 minutes and the one deep into injury time that ultimately led to the Owen winner. That later one, in particular, looked a foul committed by United rather than against them. Typical.

One bright note was Rio Ferdinand's rush of blood moment. Did he tell his brother he'd take some of the limelight off his massive mistake Saturday with an even stupider one of his own Sunday? Hilarious to watch, especially the reaction shots afterwards. He knew he was going to get mullered when he got off the pitch.

I just watched it as well Bob and I totally agree on the two free kicks, terrible decisions both. Interestingly, City looked to be emplying a zonal system very similar to ours from what I could see, and were about as good at it as we have been recently.

The Ferdinand moment was funny, not least because initially he thought he was going to catch Bellamy

He wasn't of course, because you don't. Once he's gone he's gone.

Another observation was Man Utd's goalkeeper is some way short of being good enough.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:15 pm

That was Martin Atkinson's first game in 2 seasons at old tw@tford since Portsmouth beat them.

Ferguson and Queiroz on Martin Atkinson.

Carlos Queiroz, the No2, is also likely to be charged after describing Atkinson as a "robber" and insisting that a new rule should be introduced allowing referees to be replaced during games. "I feel sorry that the game has moved to the situation where referees deserve red cards," he said. "This referee deserves somebody to come to the side of the pitch after five minutes, give him a red card and pull him out of the game. That is my opinion of this robber."

The FA applies disciplinary charges if there is an allegation of impartiality and it is difficult to see how the United pair can expect to get away with their remarks. Ferguson claimed Portsmouth were encouraged because they knew the referee "was on their side" while Queiroz was equally forthright. "What we cannot accept are referees who watch only one side."

Their anger stemmed from Atkinson's decision not to award a penalty after Sylvain Distin barged Ronaldo. "I just cannot explain that decision," Ferguson said. "Managers get sacked because of things like that and he [Atkinson] is going to referee next week? It's ridiculous."

"The referee is a disgrace," Queiroz added. "We did our job, Portsmouth did their job but the referee didn't. Sadly, we still have referees who don't understand what is the right thing in the game and who they should be protecting."

That was a reference to Ronaldo, who claimed he was "scared sometimes to do skills" because of the treatment he receives. "I don't blame Portsmouth," said Ferguson. "If you're going to come here and you know you're going to get off with these things . . . I think Keith Hackett's got a lot to answer for in this country. I don't think he's doing his job properly. He's got his favorites, as everyone knows. You look at the refs we get away from home - Steve Bennett, Mark Clattenburg, Phil Dowd, all these people - we never get them at home, always away, and I think that tells you everything about him [Hackett]. Clattenburg - oh, Jesus, God."

Ferguson felt Lassana Diarra should have been sent off and, ignoring the fact that Wayne Rooney committed the most dangerous tackle in the game, Queiroz referred to Eduardo da Silva's recent injury for Arsenal and then questioned why Diarra had been allowed to "elbow" Ronaldo. "Then Diarra becomes a saint," he said of the man of the match. "This is why the [Martin] Taylors of this game can survive and some of the best players are out of the game."

"This is a matter for the Football Association," said a spokesman for the PGMO. "As a point of information, Keith Hackett has no responsibility for the selection of match officials for FA Cup games." Hackett was not available for comment.

Incidentally they faced no charges over this.

by **stmichael** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:43 pm

Dalglish wrote:There is a prevailing suspicion in football that to play at Man U you don't simply have to beat an expensively assembled squad of players your also up against the hierachy headed by Sir Andrex and his mysterious "time machine" of a watch that indicates to the Ref when he can and cannot add time on.

Graham Poll has intimated that referees ARE intimidated, bullied even into submission by this lauded knight who believes he's the absolute authority on all things football.

The truth is that Sir Alex is like a lot of people , likeable, humourous and amiable when it's all going his way but step over the line with him and he morphs into all that is ugly about competitive sport. Quick tempered, unbelievably biased and with a slant on football like a 1 in 3 hill !

His conduct at the post match was typical Fergie, he just couldn't bring himself to applaud any aspect of City's performance except to drone on about "noisy neighbours". It's pheraps a sign that he sees the balance of power shift in Manchester for the first time under his tenure................

Whatever the case it's disheartening for football in general when there appears to be a discernable advantage given to Utd whether it be timekeeeping, the rub of the green, penalties, dubious decisions or ticket allocation. Not content with having the largest capacity of any ground in England (70K plus) they are allowed to give only 2,900 to the away fans

All sport is tainted when the rules are not the same for everyone.....................

Agree there Ian.

No point getting upset about it anymore, it has happened throughout their period of domestic dominance and probably will continue to be a large contributory factor to them winning any trophies until Fergie departs as it has been throughout his tenure.

It doesn't even itself out over the course of the season, never has since the Premier League.

by **Owzat** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:49 pm

DrPepe wrote:
stmichael wrote:What annoyed me the most was the ref giving more and more time over the allowed and then when Utd eventually scored, he blew the game up immediately. Apparantly Carricks substitution was good for 2 mins added to overtime, and Owens goal was good for 16 seconds.

no consistency mate

Exactly, although it probably was consistent for old twatford when the mancs need a goal..........................

Over 45 minutes there were four mins worth of stoppages (around one minute for every 11), in those four mins stoppage time apparently there were apparently two mins worth of stoppage time (one minute for every two)............. :suspect:

In fairness the announcement is usually "there will be a MINIMUM of four minutes stoppage time", BUT refs normally stop almost exactly on the mark and quite possibly to avoid controversy. Play the four minutes and both sides accept the result without complaint, play more than four minutes and the side that suffers will be annoyed and everyone will complain - except the benefactors.

If we are to take the events in the last four minutes as worthy of two extra minutes stoppage time, what about those games where teams waste time pretty much from the first whistle? I've known a half of football with an injury lasting 3-5 minutes and the ref allow a standard three minutes extra.

No consistency sums it up, but it was at old twatford, the theatre of make it up as you go along as long as it favours the home side. Where penalties rarely go against the home side, where golden goal time applies and no ref dare upset ORN. Was it there or an away game where the clock magically went from showing one amount of stoppage time to another which suited him better? And do I recall a game where the mancs scored twice to come from behind in stoppage time, possibly Steve Bruce scoring both?

Then again I don't suppose Chelsea can complain as they scored in each stoppage time period not so long ago to beat Stoke was it?

by **Dundalk** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:51 pm

by **Owzat** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:17 pm

Rumour has it Martin Atkinson had £500 on the red half of manchester to win, never imagining they would need his help to do so................

by **Kharhaz** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:45 am

Go figure, I went to watch the LFC match on the matchday stream and the internet cut off until now ! And of course most of what I would have said, has been said. So I will say this. Until Ferguson retires, United have the officials in their pocket. Until Ferguson retires, the "Respect" campaign will remain a farce. With this, the latest of the "Old Trafford Traditions" (namely, officials on their side) will continue to put this league into uniteds hands and will take something special otherwise. For so long now, the advantages they gain from decisions have been numerous. Mark Hughes said himself he acknowledges the fortune he got as a player with them, but only now he is realising, something is not right.

The amount of time added (4 mins) would have ended 3-3. Simple as that. United were finishing the stronger and an extra 2 mins (in this case, it would have been more if they had not have scored in this time) made all the difference. The justification in the adding of the time by journalists and united players and supporters is typical. You have old red nose surrounded by the old brown noses, those with a normal nose are banned.

Im no longer surprised by this, it happens every season. I will be surprised though if united continue to get "fortunate" decisions this season. As things stand united are only 3 points ahead of us. It will take a very stupid referee to continue their trend, especially when the Liverpool match comes around, but even then, they will still get there usual penalty no doubt. They got the decision against Arsenal and Man City, there are many keen eyes on their other big matches, Chelsea and Liverpool attracting the attention. One more decision for the mancs in either of them matches will have everyone sitting up crying "SHENANIGANS !"

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:36 am

With all of the vitriol in this thread now long since under the bridge, perhaps a tad of realism is required.
My old man was a Referee for over 30 years, and is now an Inspector in the football association over here. As such, he's up to speed immediately on all new directives from FIFA and also has an incredible understanding of the game, both originally as a player (and would you believe, he once marked the legendary Pele when he played for Santos !) and latterly as a ref....

Now, all praise aside, I had a chat with him about the time added on, and he says the referee was not only well within his rights to add on as much time as he did, but could have added more if he had booked certain players for over-the-top celebrations. I'll tend to go with what he says, as unpalatable as it is....

I'm gutted there was a winner full-stop, but it ain't the refs fault. Blame Hughes for the mess at the centre of defence that is Toure and Lescott...

by **DrPepe** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:44 am

bunglemark2 wrote:With all of the vitriol in this thread now long since under the bridge, perhaps a tad of realism is required.
My old man was a Referee for over 30 years, and is now an Inspector in the football association over here. As such, he's up to speed immediately on all new directives from FIFA and also has an incredible understanding of the game, both originally as a player (and would you believe, he once marked the legendary Pele when he played for Santos !) and latterly as a ref....

Now, all praise aside, I had a chat with him about the time added on, and he says the referee was not only well within his rights to add on as much time as he did, but could have added more if he had booked certain players for over-the-top celebrations. I'll tend to go with what he says, as unpalatable as it is....

I'm gutted there was a winner full-stop, but it ain't the refs fault. Blame Hughes for the mess at the centre of defence that is Toure and Lescott...

a good post as far as it goes - but as I said further up the thread, the rules and stipulations that you quite rightly refer to have to be applied consistently and transparently otherwise they are pointless

how many times have you seen the game stop bang on 93 minutes, even though there's been plenty of delays after the board has gone up ? :upside:

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:57 am

DrPepe wrote:a good post as far as it goes -

Ehhhhh, right.....

It's a matter of individual interpretation as I said. Each ref can choose to either blow for full-time, add on 2 mins, 3 mins, book Bellamy, do a jig.....

You get my drift....

by **DrPepe** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:38 am

bunglemark2 wrote:
DrPepe wrote:a good post as far as it goes -

Ehhhhh, right.....

It's a matter of individual interpretation as I said. Each ref can choose to either blow for full-time, add on 2 mins, 3 mins, book Bellamy, do a jig.....

You get my drift....

a tad sensitive aren't we ....

i'm agreeing that the ref technically did the right thing on sunday

now we just need all refs to apply the rules exactly the same way whether or not they're at OT and whether or not the mancs are winning, losing or drawing.... :laugh:

Liverpool FC Forum

Other scores / results - Significant or not

Who is online