Liverpool FC Forum

by **MilitiaRusher** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:05 pm

it seems that nowadays football managers and coaches alike recive a lot of praise for winning games and bringing teams to glory. but in reality, do they really hold such a immense role and responsibility in this modern day football games? and do they deserve such a praise?

By winning games through goals that do not require any superior tactics, managers and coaches often still do recieve praise. At times, why managers and coaches get praised so much for choosing the supposedly geuniune tactic and game plan is beyond me. Most goals nowadays, not to mention scrappy ones and penalty, do not even derive from pure geniune tactics but rather ones of odd skills from individual players, or some might say fluke one-off teamplay. And for this, managers and coaches similarly recieve the kind of ultimate praise.

In reality, picking a squad could be essentially done by individuals like us. Many times we could have picked a squad much to the similarity of Rafa's. But why is the role of a manager is so hard to fulfill as a lot of people suggests? Perhaps if any of us stepped into the manager's shoes, we could not have done worse than some manager's are doing at the moment. are there some immense responsibilities and qualities that normal people could not handle? i am sure i could easily spot a promising talent in Melwood immediately, or alternatively watch a few Championship or League 1 games and spot hidden talent. Similarly, i am sure that i could do no worse than Nigel Worthington or Bryan Robson considering i am not half the professional that they are.

I do understand that managers and coachs do have the very ability to instill the confidence in players. But after all, players are the one doing the 'real' job while managers and coaches are the one that are on the sidelines. It is not all too hard to yell commands and tactics as most people nowadays do know as much football knowledge than any football professionals. It is also not too hard to make logical substitutions when normal people like us often predict the correct change. Though these football professionals might know more 'advanced' and 'sophisticated' tactics, i doubt that it would often be the major match decider anyway. For instance, Chelsea without Robben is not half as lethal as they can be, and people do not blame Morinho for the detioriorating quality of football. Morinho was employed in the first place to overcome this kind of difficulty. Would he have done twice better than non professionals who takes the job? I doubt so.

anyways, it is after all a very subjective opinion from a mere football fan. i would expect being slated for, but constructive thoughts would be appreciated.

by **JC_81** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:20 pm

I hear what you're saying

However, I actually think that in the majority of cases, its the players that get most of the praise when a team is doing well, and the managers that get the brunt of the abuse when the team does badly.

Mourinho is a slight exception because what he achieved at Porto was a bit of a miracle considering he had no real superstars in the team (except maybe deco) and little money to spend

by **Sean** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:28 pm

There is to much focus on managers nowadays. It's reassuring to see a guy like Benitez being honest and dignified in defeat and in victory. Fergie, Wenger and Mourinho's behaviour is disgraceful. When they win they are happy to give interviews and take the glory smugly....but when things don't go their way they behave like children.

by **MilitiaRusher** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:30 pm

perhaps the fact that these players were not known as world class just yet. Good quality and world calss players would eventually break into the limelight yea? (refering to Porto)

by **Big Niall** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:59 pm

I would prefer the best manager in the world to the best player. The most important man at the club. Look what Ferguson did at Aberdeen or Clough at Notts Forest.

by **ronmeister** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:04 pm

You forget another thing, on the training pitch a manager (coach) will see where a player needs to develop and work them on it employing techniques we couldnt think of unless we were shown.
My old manager used to work different players in different roles for a paticular match ie: you take inswinging corners cos this keeper is ******.You take low free kicks because this squad allways jump in wall's and so on.
As for Moroniho he seem's to play a system where your players dont need to look when they have the ball as other players are allready told to be running into a position so even mediocre players can get a good pass in now and then and they hold the ball well.When you get world class players using this tactic it usually end's up as something special as they pick there pass's to the right position but time them as well.
Look at joe cole he allways seems to be on the ball because he know's where to run when a certain position has the ball.
but when he passes the ball more often than not they find a teammate running on to it but said player being pressed by opposing team player given time he will get the timing as well.
Anyway its just my theory

.

by **ronmeister** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:09 pm

I didnt really explain that well about moroniho,
if lets say hamaan picked the ball up just in front of the defense in our own half ,Players would be running into certain positions ie:Riise would start a run down the left wing but only as far the half way line, were as gerrard would run right upto the opposing penalty area(offside's allowing).Now hamaan knows both these players have made that run all he has to do is choose what one to pick.
This is just an example to explain what i meant in the last post.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:29 pm

If what you say is true, then why do certain players improve beyond recognition under new management, whereas others turn to total festering rubbish? Look at the responses since Rafa came in. Traore, while he is still like a girraffe on rollerblades, has improved ten times over what he was under Houllier. Motivation can get the best out of you, but it doesn't gift you new skills. Diouf is playing reasonably well now under Big Sam, but again, Gerry couldn't get him to do anything. Generally speaking, it's about the right players for the right system. If a manager can crack this little nutmeg - easier said than done, hewill undoubtebly have an awesome squad at his disposal. Rafa at Valencia, for eg. Ranieri has got virtually the same set of players, but he altered the tactics and line ups. They are now 20-odd points off Barca. Nuff said.

by **ronmeister** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:55 pm

Well that was one thing i was pointing out about certain managers and certain tactic's.It really go's without saying that man management skill's play a big part just look at souness for example.But according to what your saying(Lando) as long as you can motivate your squad you will be successfull yeah motivation plays a part but its not the be all end all in management.We havnt even touched on fitness techniques scouting players and a whole host of other stuff like undermining other managers with stupid bid's for players not even on sale and so on the list is endless.I was just trying to point out that the average Joe from the street would not be able to go into a squad and manage a team.Also we cant really use what Houlier did to compare with anything as just playing a player in his correct position helps a lot and houlier didnt like to do that.

by **MilitiaRusher** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:19 am

well, in my opinion, i still do think that players play the more significant role than managers/coaches. imagine a professional coach/manager (lets say arsene wenger) coaching kidderminster of league 2 which plays Brazil, coached by an amateur manager/coach (like us!). who do you think will win?

by **azriahmad** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:01 pm

Managers/head coach do make a lot of difference. Look at Chelski. Under Raineri, they are good but not solid. Under Maurinho, they are very good and very solid. Valencia has gone from being a very effective outfit to inconsistent. The role of the manager should not be underestimated

Same with us. Now we are passing and moving much better although we have yet to find the consistency. A good manager will take the club forward. Moders managers tend to be a lot more sophisticated - the Maurinhos, the Benithezs, the Capellos etc and they usually instill their way in in almost every aspect on the playing staff, from their training methods, tactics, fitness regime, eating habits etc.

by **Judge** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:10 pm

contracts are not worth the paper they are written on :ghostface:

by **JC_81** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:18 pm

azriahmad wrote:Managers/head coach do make a lot of difference. Look at Chelski. Under Raineri, they are good but not solid. Under Maurinho, they are very good and very solid.

I think the small matter of signing cech, robben and drogba helped mourinho out somewhat as well!!!

But i agree, you only have to look at mourinho's record at porto to see that coaches do have a massive influence on teams

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