Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:58 am

GYBS wrote:i think its time to leave you to your own little world now - enjoy yourself .

It does sometimes feel like I'm in my own little world mate while I'm doing this research. Still best I get as many facts as I can so people can make an informed judgement on Mourinho the manager.

I'm currently having a look regarding your excellent point that they were lucky to win the Champions League (Porto that is). I'm going to do a little comparison out of interest with their campain which ended with a 3-0 win the final and ours which was somewhat more dramatic.

You've also got me thinking with that mention of Ranieri as to how could Mourinho come in and having never managed in English football before, instantly stick 16 points on top of Ranieri's points total and set a new record (which still stands tot his day). What was Ranieri doing wrong, what was it about his methodology and what did Mourinho do right? Soon as I get to the bottom of it mate I'll post it up.

by **Sabre** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:12 am

But Bigmick, you have already won, the point was to discuss whether Mourinho's record is good, and even Lando and Sabre have admitted so at some point. Now GYBS retires.

It's over Mick, 90 minutes, end of match, Mourinho has an excellent-brilliant-very good record. No need to dig further, the goal of destroying a false myth, and addressing his record more seriously is accomplished.

Because this wasn't a Mourinho would be our ideal manager thread, no? so it's over, anyone asking the question somewhere else or saying cheaply his record is not good somewhere else can be redirected here and that's it.

by **JC_81** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:16 am

Look. Let's put this one to bed.

Mourinho is an absolutely fantastic football manager. Nobody can deny that despite what you think of him as a person. Personally I find Ferguson and Wenger more irritating than I ever did Jose, but they are also fantastic managers.

His record at Porto was superb. They were a good side, but man for man were NEVER the best team in Europe, yet he managed back to back UEFA cup and Champions Leagues for them. Four Four Two magazine ran a feature recently looking at exactly what became of Mourinho's Porto team that started the CL final when they won it. Arguably only only 4 or 5 went on to further their careers, the rest either faded out or were just about over the hill already. So what he achieved with that set of players was very impressive.

At Chelsea he had the cash, and Chelsea were already on the up under Ranieri, but he made a winning team out of them. As Abramovich, Grant and now Scolari have found out, it wasn't as easy as Mourinho made it look.

Admittedly he's not perfect and I believe that like Capello, and unlike the likes of Ferguson and Wenger, he is an impact manager. He'll go in and make a team of a group of players, build their confidence and make them feel like they're unbeatable. It may serve as a bit of an ego trip for him also, but it works for the team. What he hasn't proved is that he could go in and build a dynasty much like Ferguson and Wenger. I believe that he probably finds it hard to keep that intensity and hunger going in a side, especially after they win a few trophies, and the time is right to move on. You will never see him 'do a Ferguson'. It's not his style. But if you want my honest opinion on which manager would be capable of walking into our club and winning the Premiership without major reconstruction - it's this guy. Like it or lump it.

by **bigmick** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:28 am

Two good posts there lads and I'll certainly bare them in mind. The digging was only to satisfy my own curiosity since the reaction to the name Mourinho was quite so vehement. I suspected he was quite good though, it's nice when the facts appear to back that up. I will though be keeping my eye on his record attempt as I think GYBS in particular is interested in how it goes. I've no doubt he'll revisit the thread along with a couple of others should Man Utd bear Inter 10-0 in the Champions League, if nothing else just to make sure I haven't missed it. It only seems fair to him and anyone else who's interested that I return the favour and keep them up to speed.

by **aCe'** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:31 am

john craig wrote:Look. Let's put this one to bed.

Mourinho is an absolutely fantastic football manager. Nobody can deny that despite what you think of him as a person. Personally I find Ferguson and Wenger more irritating than I ever did Jose, but they are also fantastic managers.

His record at Porto was superb. They were a good side, but man for man were NEVER the best team in Europe, yet he managed back to back UEFA cup and Champions Leagues for them. Four Four Two magazine ran a feature recently looking at exactly what became of Mourinho's Porto team that started the CL final when they won it. Arguably only only 4 or 5 went on to further their careers, the rest either faded out or were just about over the hill already. So what he achieved with that set of players was very impressive.

At Chelsea he had the cash, and Chelsea were already on the up under Ranieri, but he made a winning team out of them. As Abramovich, Grant and now Scolari have found out, it wasn't as easy as Mourinho made it look.

Admittedly he's not perfect and I believe that like Capello, and unlike the likes of Ferguson and Wenger, he is an impact manager. He'll go in and make a team of a group of players, build their confidence and make them feel like they're unbeatable. It may serve as a bit of an ego trip for him also, but it works for the team. What he hasn't proved is that he could go in and build a dynasty much like Ferguson and Wenger. I believe that he probably finds it hard to keep that intensity and hunger going in a side, especially after they win a few trophies, and the time is right to move on. You will never see him 'do a Ferguson'. It's not his style. But if you want my honest opinion on which manager would be capable of walking into our club and winning the Premiership without major reconstruction - it's this guy. Like it or lump it.

my thooughts exactly... spot on..

by **Sabre** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:42 am

I still remember the Kop singing, Bye Bye Mourinho, with the tune of La Donna e mobile

Bye Bye Mourinho

To be honest, it was not only just me, I guess I could accept Mou as soon as I see he's good for the club, but it would be difficult to accept that an archenemy, with songs and everything from the Kop, became their manager shortly after.

I guess that we could use the same tune and sing "We were just Kidding, we were just Kidding, we were just Kidding, we were just Kiddin"

by **JC_81** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:46 am

Sabre wrote:I still remember the Kop singing, Bye Bye Mourinho, with the tune of La Donna e mobile

Bye Bye Mourinho

To be honest, it was not only just me, I guess I could accept Mou as soon as I see he's good for the club, but it would be difficult to accept that an archenemy, with songs and everything from the Kop, became their manager shortly after.

I guess that we could use the same tune and sing "We were just Kidding, we were just Kidding, we were just Kidding, we were just Kiddin"

Anyone who remembers a Manc like Paul Ince coming in and being captain at Liverpool would agree that Mourinho coming in as manager wouldn't be ANYWHERE near as bad.

by **bigmick** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:51 am

Agree with that totally John. Anybody who remembers Maurice Johnson swapping sides in Glasgow will have more faith than most that football supporters can forgive and forget given the correct circumstances.

It all depends upon which angle you're looking at things. Rafa's "small club" jibe at Everton was very disrespectful but we all loved it. His "rant" at Fergie ditto. Did Mourinho ever do or say anything towards Liverpool which was worse or even as bad as that? As somebody posted earlier I remember him shaking the hands of our players after one of the Champions League semi's, and I also remember him appluding our fans. I suppose most people will remember his "shhhhhhhh" in the Coca Cola Cup final, but I must confess I thought that was funny rather than malicious. Anyway, if he or anyone else became our manager and won the Premiership, he'd be a hero.

by **Sabre** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:52 am

Not saying it's the end of the world, just saying I'd feel weird about it. I'd need some kind of inner adaptation, at the end, if he brings success to Liverpool I'll give up and cheer him, but in the cold, without warming up, I can't

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:52 am

bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:Like has been mentioned by a few people - maureen had two big massive helping hands - Money and Inheriting Talented players . Without those he would not be anywhere near as successful as he was .

That must mean you haven't read the thread mate. I know it's a pain, but unless you do you will continue to make silly statements like that one.

It's absolutely understandable to not like the bloke, but to put all his success down to money or luck with taking over top players is simply miles off when you look at it. If you read from about page four onwards, you'll see what I mean. In the meantime, could I request that we don't smother the thread with one liners, I've put a wee bit of time into the research.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:54 am

bigmick wrote:Thought I'd briefly come back to Mourinho's attempt to hold the winning points total in three seperate countries at the same time. As we know, he holds the record in Portugal having won the title twice in two seasons with Porto as well as the Champions League and the UEFA Cup. In his first season there, he led them to a total of 85 points which still stands to this day, and that's even allowing maximum points for any missed games due to the reduction in the league numbers.

At Chelsea as we know in his first season he led them to a total of 95 points. That may never be beaten but we'll see. So that's two countries in which he holds the record for the highest points totals.

Now in his first season oin Italy, he is 7 points clear with Inter Milan but can he beat the record? Well it's going to be very tough. Inter actually made it to 97 points the season before last, in the season when some of their closest rivals were relegated for match fixing. It's hard to really get to the bottom of that total but I'll keep digging. Anyway, now all the top clubs are back involved in the league again (indeed Juventus are second) Inter have 53 points from 23 matches. Much like in England there are 15 games to go, and even if Inter won every match from here on in they'd still only get to 98 points. I simply can't see it, particularly as they don't have a serious rival for the title.

What might work in their favour as far as the league is concerned is that they've drawn Man Utd in the Champions League. Now we know that on the other occasion Mourinho ran into them in the Champions League he put Man Utd out on the way to winning the final 3-0 (that was the year Benfica put us out I think). I think that this time though it's probably going to be too hard now Man Utd are into form, and my suspicion is time will be called on their European exploits at the hands of Fergies men.

I guess then they'll be able to concentrate on that record and the quest to hold the record points total in three seperate countries at the same time. It'll certainly be some achievement if he can do it. I'll keep everyone posted on how he gets on with it.

by **JC_81** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:55 am

bigmick wrote:Agree with that totally John. Anybody who remembers Maurice Johnson swapping sides in Glasgow will have more faith than most that football supporters can forgive and forget given the correct circumstances.

It all depends upon which angle you're looking at things. Rafa's "small club" jibe at Everton was very disrespectful but we all loved it. His "rant" at Fergie ditto. Did Mourinho ever do or say anything towards Liverpool which was worse or even as bad as that? As somebody posted earlier I remember him shaking the hands of our players after one of the Champions League semi's, and I also remember him appluding our fans. I suppose most people will remember his "shhhhhhhh" in the Coca Cola Cup final, but I must confess I thought that was funny rather than malicious. Anyway, if he or anyone else became our manager and won the Premiership, he'd be a hero.

True.

Admittedly though Mick, I felt like jumping through the TV screen and knocking shades of sh.it out of him when he shhhhhhd the Liverpool fans that time :laugh:

I'm not saying that I want him here as manager (note I omitted the word DISCLAIMER there Mick :laugh:

), but at some point in the future it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:57 am

All hail Jose.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:01 am

Moris is a God.

by **JC_81** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:03 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Very good manager , but shouldn't be allowed any where near LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB . He is one of the most horrible ,self obsessed ,egotistcal ,ubertw@ts ,that the Devil put on the face of this earth . It would be a marriage made in hell . HICKS ,GILLETT AND MOURINHO . Say tarra to any dignity that Liverpool has left .

We don't care about dignity on Newkit mate - hadn't you heard?

No - as long as he wins the Premiership, we'd welcome Osama Bin Laden as manager...

I'd be all for it. The Yank owners might have a problem with Osama though.

Liverpool FC Forum

Jose mourinho. - Miracle or myth.

Who is online