Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:05 am

Man of the match for me, still played well even after getting his yellow, made up for him.

by **stmichael** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:15 am

NANNY RED wrote:Man of the match for me, still played well even after getting his yellow, made up for him.

that yellow was a farce aswell, especially when you consider that cuellar hacked down gerrard and got nothing.

i thought he was really good tonight all in all.

by **bunglemark2** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:20 am

i only saw the second half but I thought he played well....considering he's probably never played in a blizzard either, fair whack to him....

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:27 am

Played great.

Not just the usual tanacity in the challenge. His distribution was really good. Our best player definately.
Aquilani should give him half his wages tonight

No made up for him tonight, i have criticised him in the past but he was MOM tonight deffo.

by **mjlfc09** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:50 pm

Just a quick question it seems no coincidence that our last two good results have come from playing only one DM inlucas and ball playing midfielder in Aquilani so do we really need two ball winning midfielders in the same team i.e Masch and Lucas?

IMO we don't, against the big teams maybe but against everyone else it isn't really necessary, if only Rafa could see this.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:15 pm

Thought the fella had a decent game. As some have mentioned he does seem to play with a bit more "authority" when not playing alongside another DM, almost as if he no longer has to decide what his role is and is a bit more comfrotable and assertive as he goes about his business. Still wouldn't class him as a top of the shop midfielder but he does at last look like a premiership player.

Aqualani. Very early days BUT (:D ), someones gotta tell the fella that there are others in the team apart from Gerrard. Seemed to me (I might be wrong) that he constantly looked to feed Gerrard even when Stevie had 2-3 men on him, meanwhile there were others just begging for the easy ball.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:44 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Thought the fella had a decent game. As some have mentioned he does seem to play with a bit more "authority" when not playing alongside another DM, almost as if he no longer has to decide what his role is and is a bit more comfrotable and assertive as he goes about his business. Still wouldn't class him as a top of the shop midfielder but he does at last look like a premiership player.

Aqualani. Very early days BUT (:D ), someones gotta tell the fella that there are others in the team apart from Gerrard. Seemed to me (I might be wrong) that he constantly looked to feed Gerrard even when Stevie had 2-3 men on him, meanwhile there were others just begging for the easy ball.

I know what you're talking about. When Aquilani made that pass into Gerrard's feet, Andy Gray spouted some bollox about it being a difficult ball with the "easy" ball being Yossi out wide. I disagree. Gerrard attracted three defenders that were too close to him. It was a cracking ball into his feet, and had Gerrard controlled it better and spun his markers, he was clean through. People moan about us not being direct enough with forward passing. Well, my gripe is that we are sometimes too narrow. In the Wolves game, I noticed Aquilani lifting his head to play a forward pass out in wide areas, and often no one was there.

As for Lucas, he' improving at such a rate that I no longer feel uncomfortable when he' named in the starting team. He is no longer a squad player.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:56 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:Thought the fella had a decent game. As some have mentioned he does seem to play with a bit more "authority" when not playing alongside another DM, almost as if he no longer has to decide what his role is and is a bit more comfrotable and assertive as he goes about his business. Still wouldn't class him as a top of the shop midfielder but he does at last look like a premiership player.

Aqualani. Very early days BUT (:D ), someones gotta tell the fella that there are others in the team apart from Gerrard. Seemed to me (I might be wrong) that he constantly looked to feed Gerrard even when Stevie had 2-3 men on him, meanwhile there were others just begging for the easy ball.

I know what you're talking about. When Aquilani made that pass into Gerrard's feet, Andy Gray spouted some bollox about it being a difficult ball with the "easy" ball being Yossi out wide. I disagree. Gerrard attracted three defenders that were too close to him. It was a cracking ball into his feet, and had Gerrard controlled it better and spun his markers, he was clean through. People moan about us not being direct enough with forward passing. Well, my gripe is that we are sometimes too narrow. In the Wolves game, I noticed Aquilani lifting his head to play a forward pass out in wide areas, and often no one was there.

As for Lucas, he' improving at such a rate that I no longer feel uncomfortable when he' named in the starting team. He is no longer a squad player.

Not talking about "one pass" here EM, watch the game again and you'll see that time and again Aqualani looked for Gerrard, not neccesarily a bad thing BUT were yer man is shut down by 2-3 oppo players feeding the ball to a teamate who's open might just be the better decision

Gerrard attracted three defenders that were too close to him. It was a cracking ball into his feet, and had Gerrard controlled it better and spun his markers, he was clean through.

Percentages mate, "had Gerrard controlled it better" surrounded by three markers ?. Yeah no pressure Steve, just recieve those balls all night and get the sh'it kicked out of yer for no reason.

Sorry EM, for once i agree with Andy Gray.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:16 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:Thought the fella had a decent game. As some have mentioned he does seem to play with a bit more "authority" when not playing alongside another DM, almost as if he no longer has to decide what his role is and is a bit more comfrotable and assertive as he goes about his business. Still wouldn't class him as a top of the shop midfielder but he does at last look like a premiership player.

Aqualani. Very early days BUT (:D ), someones gotta tell the fella that there are others in the team apart from Gerrard. Seemed to me (I might be wrong) that he constantly looked to feed Gerrard even when Stevie had 2-3 men on him, meanwhile there were others just begging for the easy ball.

I know what you're talking about. When Aquilani made that pass into Gerrard's feet, Andy Gray spouted some bollox about it being a difficult ball with the "easy" ball being Yossi out wide. I disagree. Gerrard attracted three defenders that were too close to him. It was a cracking ball into his feet, and had Gerrard controlled it better and spun his markers, he was clean through. People moan about us not being direct enough with forward passing. Well, my gripe is that we are sometimes too narrow. In the Wolves game, I noticed Aquilani lifting his head to play a forward pass out in wide areas, and often no one was there.

As for Lucas, he' improving at such a rate that I no longer feel uncomfortable when he' named in the starting team. He is no longer a squad player.

Not talking about "one pass" here EM, watch the game again and you'll see that time and again Aqualani looked for Gerrard, not neccesarily a bad thing BUT were yer man is shut down by 2-3 oppo players feeding the ball to a teamate who's open might just be the better decision

Gerrard attracted three defenders that were too close to him. It was a cracking ball into his feet, and had Gerrard controlled it better and spun his markers, he was clean through.

Percentages mate, "had Gerrard controlled it better" surrounded by three markers ?. Yeah no pressure Steve, just recieve those balls all night and get the sh'it kicked out of yer for no reason.

Sorry EM, for once i agree with Andy Gray.

Which would you rather see, though: a square pass to the wide players who had no joy all night (we were very flat out wide) or making risky passes direct to the front men with a change one of them may pay off? I'd rather see more direct football from us, that's for sure. Can't fault a player for trying.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:23 pm

There are many reasons why we have been rubbish this season. some are more important than others, but there are many of them. One of the more important contributions to our "rubbishness" is the fact that Lucas has played every game. I'm sorry that people can't or won't see it, but he is simply not good enough to occupy a central midfield slot in a top team. It really is as simple as that.

He isn't a good enough defensive midfielder to be a defensive midfielder in a top team, he is currently proving that. He certainly isn't good enough to do whatever he was trying to do alongside Masherano (I couldn't work out exactly what it was at the time and I still can't). Heis a reasonable player, decent, a good squad member, tidy, gets his foot in, plays it simple, gives it his best, improving etc etc etc etc. It doesn't matter how you phrase it, he isn't good enough.

I'm sorry and I know many will disagree, but there it is. What is it now, 26 games in central midfield, 0 goals, 1 assist. In Boltons team or someone like that, fair enough. Not for Liverpool though, not in a million years.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:29 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Which would you rather see, though: a square pass to the wide players who had no joy all night (we were very flat out wide) or making risky passes direct to the front men with a change one of them may pay off? I'd rather see more direct football from us, that's for sure. Can't fault a player for trying.

Can't fault a player for trying ? .

OK, but when it's obvious that "ambitious" balls aren't working, maybe he should consider "trying" something else

As they say, "Possesion is Nine Tenths" of the law.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:35 pm

They do say the league table doesn't lie, and it doesn't. There are good reasons why we are in and around Birmingham, and it is simply because so far we are only as good as them. Our keeper is better, or attackers are better, but unfortantely they defend better and their midfield is at least on a par. Lucas is barely Birmingham standard, infact he isn't. He wouold n't get a game in front of either Barry Ferguson or Lee Bowyer. He isn't in the same stratosphere as nannies mate Scott Parker either.

If you fill your team with average players you'll get average results. Even average players have better than average games sometimes, but unfortunately they are still average.

by **redbeergoggles** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:02 pm

bigmick wrote:Lucas is barely Birmingham standard, infact he isn't. He wouold n't get a game in front of either Barry Ferguson or Lee Bowyer. He isn't in the same stratosphere as nannies mate Scott Parker either.

Lucas was one of the best players on the pitch against Birmingham so to compare him to Lee Bowyer who he completely outplayed in that particular game is a bit lame Michael ,I think we need to put aside this personal dislike for the lad , and accept most premiership sides would welcome Lucas to their midfield with open arms ,Birmingham being one of the aforementioned sides

by **Penguins** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:20 pm

But the cm has to make more contribution to the team than it has been doing so far. We were sometimes frustrated with Alonso for not producing(even if he did other vital tings) but he is still miles ahead of what we have today.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:38 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:
bigmick wrote:Lucas is barely Birmingham standard, infact he isn't. He wouold n't get a game in front of either Barry Ferguson or Lee Bowyer. He isn't in the same stratosphere as nannies mate Scott Parker either.

Lucas was one of the best players on the pitch against Birmingham so to compare him to Lee Bowyer who he completely outplayed in that particular game is a bit lame Michael ,I think we need to put aside this personal dislike for the lad , and accept most premiership sides would welcome Lucas to their midfield with open arms ,Birmingham being one of the aforementioned sides

I have no personal dislike for the lad Red, I've never met him but am fully prepared to believe he's a smashing fella. He's not a bad footballer either to be fair to him. He is being asked though to play central midfield in a team which has pretensions of winning the Premiership, that's the point. He quite simply isn't up to it.

Now as for him being 'one of the best players on the pitch" against Birmingham, we drew that game 2-2, at home, with two holding midfielders. Now Lucas didn't create anything (obviously), and given the fact that we conceded two goals at Home along with plenty of other chances he didn't perform his holding role particularly well either.

It's very strange at the moment. You're not allowed to criticise the manager who is doing a fantastic job apparently even though we're seventh, and you're also not allowed to point out deficiencies in the players, because they are all brilliant even though we are seventh. It's not about scapegoats, blame, personal dislikes or anything else. I'm simply offering up a reason as to why we aren't very good. having Lucas in central midfield is one of the reasons, although as I've already said there are others.

He isn't good enough pure and simple. If you have average players you will get average results.

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