Liverpool FC Forum

s@int wrote:(Kaka with a tackle)

   

Bad Bob wrote:For me both the Lucas and Kuyt discussions are typical of the "Newkit effect" ™.  What you've got is essentially a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but who occasionally puts in an eye-catching shift for the club.  At other times, though, he looks a little out of his depth and leads many to wonder, could we do better in that position?  The trouble starts when the posts flow in after either the eye-catching shift or the out-of-his-depth days.  That's when we get the "MOTM today, top player" or "feckin' shyte" type comments that instantly polarize the discussion and drive the more balanced views from the thread.  After a little lather, rinse, repeat we've got some heavily entrenched views about the lad that get their regularly weekly airing and which invariably get the other 'camp' frothing at the mouth.  If you take a step back and look at the broad spectrum of opinions, though--there's a message in these polarized debates.  If the same player is getting absolutely slated by some while simultaneously getting defended to the hilt by others, chances are the reality is split right down the middle: a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but occasionally does the business.

s@int wrote:

Bad Bob wrote:For me both the Lucas and Kuyt discussions are typical of the "Newkit effect" ™.  What you've got is essentially a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but who occasionally puts in an eye-catching shift for the club.  At other times, though, he looks a little out of his depth and leads many to wonder, could we do better in that position?  The trouble starts when the posts flow in after either the eye-catching shift or the out-of-his-depth days.  That's when we get the "MOTM today, top player" or "feckin' shyte" type comments that instantly polarize the discussion and drive the more balanced views from the thread.  After a little lather, rinse, repeat we've got some heavily entrenched views about the lad that get their regularly weekly airing and which invariably get the other 'camp' frothing at the mouth.  If you take a step back and look at the broad spectrum of opinions, though--there's a message in these polarized debates.  If the same player is getting absolutely slated by some while simultaneously getting defended to the hilt by others, chances are the reality is split right down the middle: a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but occasionally does the business.

I agree Bob, I think its a bit like when Hargreaves first played for England, everyone was moaning and complaining about such a limited player, after a few games people began to appreciate his hustling and hardworking performances, and accepting that while he is a limited passer he made up for it with hard work.

Owzat wrote:I just think Rafa needs to realise that Mascherano and Lucas as a central pairing really limits us, one or the other but not both (all the time)

s@int wrote:

Bad Bob wrote:For me both the Lucas and Kuyt discussions are typical of the "Newkit effect" ™.  What you've got is essentially a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but who occasionally puts in an eye-catching shift for the club.  At other times, though, he looks a little out of his depth and leads many to wonder, could we do better in that position?  The trouble starts when the posts flow in after either the eye-catching shift or the out-of-his-depth days.  That's when we get the "MOTM today, top player" or "feckin' shyte" type comments that instantly polarize the discussion and drive the more balanced views from the thread.  After a little lather, rinse, repeat we've got some heavily entrenched views about the lad that get their regularly weekly airing and which invariably get the other 'camp' frothing at the mouth.  If you take a step back and look at the broad spectrum of opinions, though--there's a message in these polarized debates.  If the same player is getting absolutely slated by some while simultaneously getting defended to the hilt by others, chances are the reality is split right down the middle: a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but occasionally does the business.

I agree Bob, I think its a bit like when Hargreaves first played for England, everyone was moaning and complaining about such a limited player, after a few games people began to appreciate his hustling and hardworking performances, and accepting that while he is a limited passer he made up for it with hard work.

In fairness to Lucas. He certainly has improved but I think it took more than a few games Saint for people to

appreciate his hustling and hardworking performances, and accepting that while he is a limited passer he made up for it with hard work.

This thread was started 20 months ago and in all honesty it's only recently that (to me at least) he's shown the qualities to which you refer.

Having said that, I do think he's improved, his haircuts a lot better for starters  , we can of course do better but until that happens we'll have to stick by the fella and maybe just give him a bit of credit where and when it's deserved.

s@int wrote:

Bad Bob wrote:For me both the Lucas and Kuyt discussions are typical of the "Newkit effect" ™.  What you've got is essentially a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but who occasionally puts in an eye-catching shift for the club.  At other times, though, he looks a little out of his depth and leads many to wonder, could we do better in that position?  The trouble starts when the posts flow in after either the eye-catching shift or the out-of-his-depth days.  That's when we get the "MOTM today, top player" or "feckin' shyte" type comments that instantly polarize the discussion and drive the more balanced views from the thread.  After a little lather, rinse, repeat we've got some heavily entrenched views about the lad that get their regularly weekly airing and which invariably get the other 'camp' frothing at the mouth.  If you take a step back and look at the broad spectrum of opinions, though--there's a message in these polarized debates.  If the same player is getting absolutely slated by some while simultaneously getting defended to the hilt by others, chances are the reality is split right down the middle: a hard-working, honest professional who rarely pulls up any trees but occasionally does the business.

I agree Bob, I think its a bit like when Hargreaves first played for England, everyone was moaning and complaining about such a limited player, after a few games people began to appreciate his hustling and hardworking performances, and accepting that while he is a limited passer he made up for it with hard work.

Saint.. ffs.. hargraeves is one of the best tactical players in the planet alongside the likes of Gilberto Silva and Toulolan, Makelele in the past..etc Can never compare him to Lucas in a million years ! 
Hardly misses a pass, he doesnt usually go for the through ball or the hollywood pass but he does what he does to near perfection more often than not... If hes back before the world cup hes a sure starter for England in the worldcup imo...

And Fletcher has developed into a very good player, mostly because he was managed right and introduced to the side after hed learned all about the position he needed to play... has okayish technical ability but his positioning on the pitch is what makes him such a valuable asset for Utd... Lucas lacks way too many things for him to develop into anything more than a backup player for a club of our stature...

As things stand i think hes good enough backup for Mascherano in our current system, and given our current financial state... no more, and no less....

woof woof ! wrote:Having said that, I do think he's improved, his haircuts a lot better for starters  , we can of course do better but until that happens we'll have to stick by the fella and maybe just give him a bit of credit where and when it's deserved.

supersub wrote:

woof woof ! wrote:Having said that, I do think he's improved, his haircuts a lot better for starters  , we can of course do better but until that happens we'll have to stick by the fella and maybe just give him a bit of credit where and when it's deserved.

I think his haircut is a huge improvement and he has a cheeky little grin

If you start mentioning his eyes, our suspicions will be confirmed