Liverpool FC Forum

by **The_Rock** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:19 am

bigmick wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
bigmick wrote:Getting top players to come is a bit like field of dreams where if you build it they will come. In football, nine times out of ten if you pay them, they will come. Man City have by and large got the players they've been going for, and I can't help but think it's not necessarily down to Mark Hughes' magnetic personality nor his impressive record. True Kaka turned them down, but he was a bit of an exception. I'm not sure he'd have come to us either to be perfectly honest.

I don't see what point you're trying to make mate. Man City have got an open cheque book so they get pretty much who they want, it's hardly a revelation that is it?

We have limited funds, if any at all, so we're going for the second, third maybe even fourth class of player. What are you trying to prove?

I'm not sure what the point is either baldy to be honest. I do know this though, it's tricky keeping up with things around here.

Here's how I understand the lie of the land to be right now.

If somebody signs for the club, regardless of the fact they're on a huge contract (Johnson for example), it's because of Rafa, which is fair enough. If on the other hand they decide not to sign for us and to sign for somebody else (like Gareth Barry for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa, it's because they are a greedy b@stard.

If a player decides to stay with us for a while (ie Reina or Agger), it's because of Rafa and the respect the player(s) have for him. If on other hand they decide to leave (Like Owen or Alonso for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If a player such as Gerrard considers leaving, it's nothing to do with Rafa or presumeably the manager he was considering playing for. It's actually Parry's fault. If and when though he changes his mind and decides to stay, that's nothing to do with Parry, that's because of Rafa and the respect the player has for him.

If we go into a Champions League final and are 3-0 down at half time and being completely outplayed, it's nothing to do with the tactics we decided to employ, or Rafa. If though our captain then drags us back into it single handed and we eventually through many twists of fate win, it's because of the tactical genius, of Rafa.

If we play in a Champions League final and leave our best striker on the bench and lose, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we win the Champions League with a team which consists of eight or nine players who were left behind by the previous manager, it's all down to Rafa and nothing to do with that previous manager. If that same group of players wins the FA Cup the following season, ditto. If having rebuilt that squad at huge cost, we then win feck all for three seasons, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, the owners, and bad luck.

If we win a big willy contest with Real Madrid but then suffer at the start of the season as our replacement for our playmaker which we sold (which wasn't anything to do with Rafa) is injured until October, it's not down to Rafa. Similarly, if the pre-season run outs against Cricklewood Wanderers, Heimdalls Harriers and Merthyr Tydfill don't have us sharp enough for the start of the season, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we sign a striker for 20 million quid and he scores goals for fun, it's down to Rafa which is absolutely fair enough. Not only is it down to rafa for spotting him, but the only reason the player came is because of Rafa (obviously). If two seasons later we sign another striker for 20 million quid and he can't hit a cows erse with a banjo, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, because Rafa didn't want him in the first place. The fact we paid 20 million quid for him which was too much was down to Parry (nothing to do with Rafa), but then when we managed to lose only 1 million pounds sterling on the deal when we sold him for 12 million quid, it's down to Rafa (with a bit of help from Jesus presumeably).

I think that's all things covered, but forgive me if I get a bit confused with it all from time to time Baldy .

.......... Funny as H@ll but still awesome.

by **GYBS** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:51 am

ah yes mick at his wonderful sarcastic best , trying to belittle anyone with an opinion that seems to back the manager thru thick and thin . Heartbeat of the forum our mick is . Keep up the good work encouraging people to post knowing their opinion will not be ridiculed .

by **bigmick** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:01 am

GYBS wrote:ah yes mick at his wonderful sarcastic best , trying to belittle anyone with an opinion that seems to back the manager thru thick and thin . Heartbeat of the forum our mick is . Keep up the good work encouraging people to post knowing their opinion will not be ridiculed .

"belittling anyone that seems to back the manager through thick and thin"...."encouraging people to post knowing their opinion will be ridiculed" Whatchoo talking about GYBS

Firstly, it's not an attempt to "belittle" anyone. It's simply poking a bit of fun at one or two members of the forum who get a little over-protective at times. It's no different than someone saying "Ah well, sack the manager then" when someone complains about a performance or a selection.

As for the insinuation that I discourage people from posting, that's just daft mate to be honest. I actively encourage people to post and debate rather than resort to abuse, but I reserve the right to have a bit of a laugh when people get a bit OTT.

It's not like you to overreact anyway

by **bigmick** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:03 am

It seems that these days the blanket throwing isn't limited to criticism of players, observations on tactics, opinions on nuances with regards to all things football. These days you can't even have a bit of a smile either, what a shame.

by **ConnO'var** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:26 am

GYBS wrote:ah yes mick at his wonderful sarcastic best , trying to belittle anyone with an opinion that seems to back the manager thru thick and thin . Heartbeat of the forum our mick is . Keep up the good work encouraging people to post knowing their opinion will not be ridiculed .

Don't get yer knickers in a twist GYBS..... it was obviously a joke and a damn funny one at that.... lighten up FFS. :no

by **aCe'** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:24 am

maguskwt wrote:
Effes wrote:Hyypia and Hamman I'd put in that class, Henchoz at a push.

Hyppia yes (absolute bargain), Hamann no (one of the best holding midfielders who kept the game simple and effective but the talent level just can't be compared to Alonso's), and Henchoz by a mile no (he formed a formidable partnership with Hyppia but by himself he was never a world class defender).

What are you trying to argue here ?
Rafa in one season 07/08 ) spent (around 70mill) almost as much as we did in the 4 years prior to his arrival (71.55mill)

Put it in terms of net transfer spent and its pretty much beyond dispute (40mill in 07/08 as opposed to 28.76mill from 2000-2004)

And Hamann in his day was class, if you rate Reina or Mascherano as top class then surely Hamann is in the same category...

Now im not saying Hollier was any good in the transfer market (the Anelka thing i still dont get! ) but for the initial point about hollier given tons of cash to spend just as Rafa was, i just dont agree with it.. in the 12 years from 1992-2004, we spent 168million pounds.... under Benitez in 5 years 2004-2009 we spent 250mill...

by **Penguins** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:41 am

Still not ever going to get it are you?

HOULLIER:
Total Spent £135.700m (32 players), Total Received £51.415m (24 players),
Net Spend £84.285

BENITEZ
Total Spent £227.150m (31 players), Total Received £145.50m (31 players),
Net Spend £81.799

by **Bammo** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:44 am

But it's difficult to compare the spending between the 2 because prices have rocketed in the past few years. Under Houllier, £15m would have been considered a huge buy for a world class player. Now £20m barely gets you a decent first teamer.

The only way to fairly compare them is to take into consideration the average amounts other teams were spending at the time and who can be bothered to do that?

by **heimdall** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:52 am

Penguins wrote:Still not ever going to get it are you?

HOULLIER:
Total Spent £135.700m (32 players), Total Received £51.415m (24 players),
Net Spend £84.285

BENITEZ
Total Spent £227.150m (31 players), Total Received £145.50m (31 players),
Net Spend £81.799

hmm, now that is interesting, so you are saying that fecking Moores :angry:

and fecking Parry :angry:

actually gave more money to the then manager than Hicks and Gillett have to Rafa, surely that can't be right!!

by **GYBS** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:07 pm

Whoa guess only selected few are allowed humour posts - apologies that smiley wasnt added to show it was just a bit of mickey taking :;):

P.s. shall we just make one Rafa slagging off thread as most threads seem to be turning into a good old grumble about our manager .

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:19 pm

bigmick wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
bigmick wrote:Getting top players to come is a bit like field of dreams where if you build it they will come. In football, nine times out of ten if you pay them, they will come. Man City have by and large got the players they've been going for, and I can't help but think it's not necessarily down to Mark Hughes' magnetic personality nor his impressive record. True Kaka turned them down, but he was a bit of an exception. I'm not sure he'd have come to us either to be perfectly honest.

I don't see what point you're trying to make mate. Man City have got an open cheque book so they get pretty much who they want, it's hardly a revelation that is it?

We have limited funds, if any at all, so we're going for the second, third maybe even fourth class of player. What are you trying to prove?

I'm not sure what the point is either baldy to be honest. I do know this though, it's tricky keeping up with things around here.

Here's how I understand the lie of the land to be right now.

If somebody signs for the club, regardless of the fact they're on a huge contract (Johnson for example), it's because of Rafa, which is fair enough. If on the other hand they decide not to sign for us and to sign for somebody else (like Gareth Barry for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa, it's because they are a greedy b@stard.

If a player decides to stay with us for a while (ie Reina or Agger), it's because of Rafa and the respect the player(s) have for him. If on other hand they decide to leave (Like Owen or Alonso for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If a player such as Gerrard considers leaving, it's nothing to do with Rafa or presumeably the manager he was considering playing for. It's actually Parry's fault. If and when though he changes his mind and decides to stay, that's nothing to do with Parry, that's because of Rafa and the respect the player has for him.

If we go into a Champions League final and are 3-0 down at half time and being completely outplayed, it's nothing to do with the tactics we decided to employ, or Rafa. If though our captain then drags us back into it single handed and we eventually through many twists of fate win, it's because of the tactical genius, of Rafa.

If we play in a Champions League final and leave our best striker on the bench and lose, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we win the Champions League with a team which consists of eight or nine players who were left behind by the previous manager, it's all down to Rafa and nothing to do with that previous manager. If that same group of players wins the FA Cup the following season, ditto. If having rebuilt that squad at huge cost, we then win feck all for three seasons, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, the owners, and bad luck.

If we win a big willy contest with Real Madrid but then suffer at the start of the season as our replacement for our playmaker which we sold (which wasn't anything to do with Rafa) is injured until October, it's not down to Rafa. Similarly, if the pre-season run outs against Cricklewood Wanderers, Heimdalls Harriers and Merthyr Tydfill don't have us sharp enough for the start of the season, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we sign a striker for 20 million quid and he scores goals for fun, it's down to Rafa which is absolutely fair enough. Not only is it down to rafa for spotting him, but the only reason the player came is because of Rafa (obviously). If two seasons later we sign another striker for 20 million quid and he can't hit a cows erse with a banjo, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, because Rafa didn't want him in the first place. The fact we paid 20 million quid for him which was too much was down to Parry (nothing to do with Rafa), but then when we managed to lose only 1 million pounds sterling on the deal when we sold him for 12 million quid, it's down to Rafa (with a bit of help from Jesus presumeably).

I think that's all things covered, but forgive me if I get a bit confused with it all from time to time Baldy .

Fkn brilliant post Mick.

by **heimdall** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:26 pm

s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
bigmick wrote:Getting top players to come is a bit like field of dreams where if you build it they will come. In football, nine times out of ten if you pay them, they will come. Man City have by and large got the players they've been going for, and I can't help but think it's not necessarily down to Mark Hughes' magnetic personality nor his impressive record. True Kaka turned them down, but he was a bit of an exception. I'm not sure he'd have come to us either to be perfectly honest.

I don't see what point you're trying to make mate. Man City have got an open cheque book so they get pretty much who they want, it's hardly a revelation that is it?

We have limited funds, if any at all, so we're going for the second, third maybe even fourth class of player. What are you trying to prove?

I'm not sure what the point is either baldy to be honest. I do know this though, it's tricky keeping up with things around here.

Here's how I understand the lie of the land to be right now.

If somebody signs for the club, regardless of the fact they're on a huge contract (Johnson for example), it's because of Rafa, which is fair enough. If on the other hand they decide not to sign for us and to sign for somebody else (like Gareth Barry for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa, it's because they are a greedy b@stard.

If a player decides to stay with us for a while (ie Reina or Agger), it's because of Rafa and the respect the player(s) have for him. If on other hand they decide to leave (Like Owen or Alonso for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If a player such as Gerrard considers leaving, it's nothing to do with Rafa or presumeably the manager he was considering playing for. It's actually Parry's fault. If and when though he changes his mind and decides to stay, that's nothing to do with Parry, that's because of Rafa and the respect the player has for him.

If we go into a Champions League final and are 3-0 down at half time and being completely outplayed, it's nothing to do with the tactics we decided to employ, or Rafa. If though our captain then drags us back into it single handed and we eventually through many twists of fate win, it's because of the tactical genius, of Rafa.

If we play in a Champions League final and leave our best striker on the bench and lose, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we win the Champions League with a team which consists of eight or nine players who were left behind by the previous manager, it's all down to Rafa and nothing to do with that previous manager. If that same group of players wins the FA Cup the following season, ditto. If having rebuilt that squad at huge cost, we then win feck all for three seasons, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, the owners, and bad luck.

If we win a big willy contest with Real Madrid but then suffer at the start of the season as our replacement for our playmaker which we sold (which wasn't anything to do with Rafa) is injured until October, it's not down to Rafa. Similarly, if the pre-season run outs against Cricklewood Wanderers, Heimdalls Harriers and Merthyr Tydfill don't have us sharp enough for the start of the season, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we sign a striker for 20 million quid and he scores goals for fun, it's down to Rafa which is absolutely fair enough. Not only is it down to rafa for spotting him, but the only reason the player came is because of Rafa (obviously). If two seasons later we sign another striker for 20 million quid and he can't hit a cows erse with a banjo, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, because Rafa didn't want him in the first place. The fact we paid 20 million quid for him which was too much was down to Parry (nothing to do with Rafa), but then when we managed to lose only 1 million pounds sterling on the deal when we sold him for 12 million quid, it's down to Rafa (with a bit of help from Jesus presumeably).

I think that's all things covered, but forgive me if I get a bit confused with it all from time to time Baldy .

Fkn brilliant post Mick.

Yepp, very good, if I ever buy a club I'm changing the name of it to Heimdalls Warriors FC.

by **Owzat** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:27 pm

s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:
bigmick wrote:Getting top players to come is a bit like field of dreams where if you build it they will come. In football, nine times out of ten if you pay them, they will come. Man City have by and large got the players they've been going for, and I can't help but think it's not necessarily down to Mark Hughes' magnetic personality nor his impressive record. True Kaka turned them down, but he was a bit of an exception. I'm not sure he'd have come to us either to be perfectly honest.

I don't see what point you're trying to make mate. Man City have got an open cheque book so they get pretty much who they want, it's hardly a revelation that is it?

We have limited funds, if any at all, so we're going for the second, third maybe even fourth class of player. What are you trying to prove?

I'm not sure what the point is either baldy to be honest. I do know this though, it's tricky keeping up with things around here.

Here's how I understand the lie of the land to be right now.

If somebody signs for the club, regardless of the fact they're on a huge contract (Johnson for example), it's because of Rafa, which is fair enough. If on the other hand they decide not to sign for us and to sign for somebody else (like Gareth Barry for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa, it's because they are a greedy b@stard.

If a player decides to stay with us for a while (ie Reina or Agger), it's because of Rafa and the respect the player(s) have for him. If on other hand they decide to leave (Like Owen or Alonso for example), it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If a player such as Gerrard considers leaving, it's nothing to do with Rafa or presumeably the manager he was considering playing for. It's actually Parry's fault. If and when though he changes his mind and decides to stay, that's nothing to do with Parry, that's because of Rafa and the respect the player has for him.

If we go into a Champions League final and are 3-0 down at half time and being completely outplayed, it's nothing to do with the tactics we decided to employ, or Rafa. If though our captain then drags us back into it single handed and we eventually through many twists of fate win, it's because of the tactical genius, of Rafa.

If we play in a Champions League final and leave our best striker on the bench and lose, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we win the Champions League with a team which consists of eight or nine players who were left behind by the previous manager, it's all down to Rafa and nothing to do with that previous manager. If that same group of players wins the FA Cup the following season, ditto. If having rebuilt that squad at huge cost, we then win feck all for three seasons, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, the owners, and bad luck.

If we win a big willy contest with Real Madrid but then suffer at the start of the season as our replacement for our playmaker which we sold (which wasn't anything to do with Rafa) is injured until October, it's not down to Rafa. Similarly, if the pre-season run outs against Cricklewood Wanderers, Heimdalls Harriers and Merthyr Tydfill don't have us sharp enough for the start of the season, it's nothing to do with Rafa.

If we sign a striker for 20 million quid and he scores goals for fun, it's down to Rafa which is absolutely fair enough. Not only is it down to rafa for spotting him, but the only reason the player came is because of Rafa (obviously). If two seasons later we sign another striker for 20 million quid and he can't hit a cows erse with a banjo, it's nothing to do with Rafa. It's down to Parry, because Rafa didn't want him in the first place. The fact we paid 20 million quid for him which was too much was down to Parry (nothing to do with Rafa), but then when we managed to lose only 1 million pounds sterling on the deal when we sold him for 12 million quid, it's down to Rafa (with a bit of help from Jesus presumeably).

I think that's all things covered, but forgive me if I get a bit confused with it all from time to time Baldy .

Fkn brilliant post Mick.

Gotta say that's made my day, sums up the situation nicely

Although mick did miss Lucas and Voronin as signings, who we blame for being bad but don't blame Rafa for signing them - unless of course it was the yanks, Parry, Houllier or martians that signed them. And the credit for beating the mancs and Chelsea goes to Rafa, but not the blame for not beating Stoke, Fulham, West Ham etc etc. Of course we should blame the credit crunch, captain crunch and crunchy peanut butter.

by **aCe'** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:27 pm

GYBS wrote:Whoa guess only selected few are allowed humour posts - apologies that smiley wasnt added to show it was just a bit of mickey taking

P.s. shall we just make one Rafa slagging off thread as most threads seem to be turning into a good old grumble about our manager .

dont be an idiot Gybs, wheres the slagging ?

You have you, and Lando moaning about posters and other peoples opinions rather than getting involved in the discussion...grow the fck up .. thats what ruins the threads... not figures that might or might not prove that Rafa isnt that miracle working genius who used a very limited budget to bring in "world class" talent all over the pitch....

And penguin, havent seen any site or source or whatever that says that Benitez only bought 31 players or only spent 227mill or whatever... id say you figures are about 30 players and 40mill short but whatever...

by **GYBS** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:51 pm

less of the insults , im sure your clever enough to post without it or then again maybe not and if you think rafa isnt getting slagged off all over the forum then best get yourself off to specsavers as its all over the place and a dig at rafa appears in every thread . You can bring up as many stats about player purchases as you have done constantly over the last couple of months as much as you to back up your claims he is rubbish in the transfer market i will prefer to look at the impact of the majority of the players and come to the conclusion that its in the positive effect overall and i certainly dont need someone like you telling me to grow up . You keep on praising other teams and players and managers and i will continue to back our own players and manager . Run along now .

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