Liverpool FC Forum

[baldricks_cunning_plan]

Sounds more like a headliner for Wrestlemania

[agoodmentality]

just seen rafa on SSN, the fella asked him about any new transfers in the next few days,

Rafa said "i don't think so", but the smile, and twinkle in his eye told me something big is on its way.

I keep remembering Nando's interview this summer when he said we needed a small, tricky player. I remember he named David Villa, David Silva and Juan Matta??.

What are the odds on one of them players arriving in the next 4 days?

[baldricks_cunning_plan]

just seen rafa on SSN, the fella asked him about any new transfers in the next few days,

Rafa said "i don't think so", but the smile, and twinkle in his eye told me something big is on its way.

I keep remembering Nando's interview this summer when he said we needed a small, tricky player. I remember he named David Villa, David Silva and Juan Matta??.

What are the odds on one of them players arriving in the next 4 days?

You'd have better odds on me and Biggy headlining Wrestlemania.

[bigmick]

You'd have better odds on me and Biggy headlining Wrestlemania.

Carry on as you are baldy and I wouldn't bet on it   

[loopyliverpool]

As much as fans want to paint Rafa as some tactical genius the two trophies he has won for us have come down to a great deal of luck as much as any judgement. Yes Rafa is a decent manager. He asked for 5 years, he's had them and we have a threadbare squad. Our first eleven is potentially as good as any. I say potentially because we were short of quality on the field on Monday and bar Reira had nobody to bring off the bench. The season started three games ago not when Aquilani is fit! People can say what they like with regard transfer funds etc. and defend 'our' manager to the hilt and good for them for doing so .. there is nothing like blind loyalty, but the fact remains after five years there is a whole lot of mediocrity sitting on the bench and Rafa has to take responsibility for that.

[Bammo]

Let's get ready to ruuuuuummmmmmmmbbbbblllllllllleeeeeeeeeeee

[bigmick]

Yes I must confess when I read that I did feel that it would be like a red rag to a bull. In truth as far as "luck" is involved, the Champions League win both in the Semi and final did owe a little bit to fate I think (which I suppose you could call luck). Things definately went our way, from Lampard missing from under the crossbar in London to Gudjohnson missing from three yards in the sying seconds at Anfield., and then onto the final with more twists and turns than a twisty turny thing. Funnily enough for someone who is painted sometimes as a tactical genius, we were also 2-0 down against West Ham in the Cup final until like in the Champions League, Gerrard rescued us. He left it a bit later in the cup final, scoring from 35 yards with about 35 seconds left but eventually the result was the same.

Our record in the three Cup finals probably doesn't quite bear out the "tactical genius" theory, not for the first part of the game anyway. We went 3-0 down n 45 minutes to Milan before Gerrards intervention in the first final, and went 2-0 down to them in the second one. In the FA Cup final we went 2-0 down to West Ham before once again Gerrard stepped up to the plate.

Lucky? Arguable. Tactical genius though? ditto.

[Bammo]

Luck works the other way though, too. It could be argued that Rafa got his tactics spot on for the 2007 CL final. We were in charge of the game but fell behind to a deflected goal. Had we gone in at half time level we'd have been saying we were unlucky not to be leading

It's all swings and roundabouts.

[bigmick]

Luck works the other way though, too. It could be argued that Rafa got his tactics spot on for the 2007 CL final. We were in charge of the game but fell behind to a deflected goal. Had we gone in at half time level we'd have been saying we were unlucky not to be leading

It's all swings and roundabouts.

Don't know about "in charge" mate but it was even stevens I'd say from memory. It was an unlucky goal to concede as well, no question there.

[DrPepe]

You also have to consider the rest of the competition, not just the finals


Both our CL finals have come on the back of some fantastic tactical performances, nullifying and out-thinking some of  the best managers/teams around

We had our luck in the 05 final. Isn't there a famous quote about luck in sport?

[bigmick]

There's a few quotes about luck, and we deserve ours as much as anyone. Like the fella who brought it up though, I find the "tactical genius" thing a wee bit removed from the realityof what we actually see from time to time. I do agree that at the "setting the stall out" and "nullification" Rafa is right up there, but his record in finals (and I didn't include that World Club thing) isn't indicative of someone who thrives in that scenario.

Like most things, the truth is in the middle. Rafa ain't as bad as some make out, but he certainly ain't as good either. I've actually grown to quite like him over the years and I don't think he's done too bad a job. It's only when people go totally overboard and lose all sight of common sense that I feel the need to get involved. Unfortunately on here, it happens quite a lot  .

[Effes]

You've got to admit though Mick - Rafa gets his tactics right in Europe more times than he doesn't.

I think he's unsurpassed in terms of European record in the last 5 years.

Forgetting the final itself in 2005 - it was genius to actually get us there.

Again, getting to the FA Cup final in 2006, beating Man U and Chelsea along the way - was no mean feat.

I think it's when we actually get to a final, that's when Rafa's tactics can be scrutinised.

[bigmick]

We didn't beat Man U on the way Eff but tactically in Eurpe he is normally spot on mate, no argument.

[GYBS]

he year is 2007 and little bluenose Duncan is talking to his bluenose Dad.

SON “Dad, my mates in school told me that Liverpool won the European Cup for the 5th time in 2005 – are they right dad?

DAD “Yes SON , it’s true, but they were dead lucky SON , all the way through the tournament”

SON “Why dad?”

DAD “Well in the group stages …..”

SON “What dad, did they have a team from Azerbaijan, Israel, and Ireland in their group?”

DAD “Well no, they had Monaco, Deportivo la Coruna, and Olympiakos”

SON “Well they still sound like 3 easy teams to me dad”

DAD “Actually Monaco reached the final the year before, Olympiakos had won their league 7 times out of the previous 8 seaSON s, and Deportivo finished above the galacticos of Real Madrid in their league”.

SON “Jeez dad, that sounds like quite a difficult group then”.

DAD “yeh I suppose your right SON , but they were still lucky – it took a mishit shot by Gerrard against Olympiakos to get through”.

SON “oh is that the goal were your hero Andy Gray goes berserk shouting “you beauty, you beauty, what a hit SON , what a hit!!!!”

DAD “yes SON it is”

SON “oh ok. Well what happened in the last 16 dad, who did they draw?”

DAD “Bayer Leverkusen”

SON “Bayer who?”

DAD “Exactly SON , but they had beaten Real Madrid 3-0 at home, and won their group that included Dinamo Kiev and Roma too.”

SON “bloody hell dad, they sound good”.

DAD “yes, I suppose you’re right SON ”

SON “so did they win on away goals or something”

DAD ”errrrr, no, they won both legs 3-1 each”

SON “oh – well who next then dad”

DAD “Juventus”

SON “How the f#ck did they get past them Dad?”

DAD “Well they did – they won 2-1 at home, and cruised to a 0-0 away draw without Juve having hardly any chances”.

SON “were Juve sh#t at that time – had all their decent players gone or something?”

DAD “well actually they still had players like Del Piero, Nedved, Ibrahimovic, Thuram, and Buffon in the side. And they won Serie A a few weeks later.”

SON “wow, they beat the Italian champions elect – which easy team did they get in the semi then?”

DAD “Chelsea”

SON “Chelsea – for f#cks sake – what a easy draw – they’ve won nothing, Everton have won more than them”.

DAD “well that seaSON they won the Premiership and League Cup but the Red didn’t let them score in 180 minutes of football”

SON “Jesus Christ – so Liverpool beat the English Champions elect too”

DAD “yes SON , they bloody well did”.

SON “so after all that I suppose all the good teams had been knocked out”

DAD “not quite SON , AC Milan awaited them in the final”

SON “no way – aren’t they the 2nd most successful team in the competition’s history”.

DAD “yes SON they are”

SON “so were Liverpool lucky because Milan had all their good players out with injuries”

DAD “no – they had Shevchenko, Crespo, Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Kaka, Stam, Dida, Gattuso, Pirlo, and Seedorf”.

SON “your ‘avin a laff”

DAD “it gets worse SON , Milan were cruising 3-0 up at half-time”.

SON “what happened, did they have 3 men sent off in the second half – how did Liverpool get back into the game?”

DAD “no, Milan had no men sent off, the Red scored 3 goals in 6 minutes”

SON “against the best defence in Europe”

DAD “yes!!!, against the best defence in Europe”

SON “so what happened next - extra time?”

DAD “yes SON , and Dudek made the luckiest save ever to stop a Shevchenko shot from a yard”

SON “why was it lucky dad – did it hit him on the , nose, shoulder or something”

DAD “no SON , his hand”

SON “well aren’t goalies meant to save shots with their hands”

DAD “yeah but that’s besides the point”

SON “then what”

DAD “penalties!”

SON “English teams are at penalties”

DAD “not this f#ckin time they weren’t – they only missed one. And that’s how Liverpool became the luckiest team to win the European Cup”.

SON “but I bet when they brought the cup home there was hardly anyone to watch as all Liverpool fans live anywhere but Liverpool you say. How many was there, 5,,000 or so?”

DAD “1 million people lined the streets”.

SON ”so let’s get this straight dad – Liverpool had 3 good teams in their group, they then knocked out a team who had beaten Real Madrid 3-0, they then knocked out the future Serie A champions, then knocked out the future Premiership champions, before coming back from 3-0 down to beat the 2nd most successful club in Europe. And then the whole population of Liverpool came out to welcome them home!!!!

DAD “that about sums it up SON ”

SON “dad?”

DAD “yes SON ”

SON “can I have a Liverpool shirt for my birthday next week, and can you stop calling me Duncan – I’m Stevie from now on”

[Effes]

We didn't beat Man U on the way Eff but tactically in Eurpe he is normally spot on mate, no argument.

Sorry mate - dozey erse me - I was talking about the FA Cup final of 2006. It's too early 
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