If we dont win the league next season - Just a question of thoughts now?

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If we dont win the league next season - Just a question of thoughts now?

1. yes sack rafa
14
18%
2. no keep rafa
33
43%
3. unsure
24
31%
4. who cares
6
8%
 
Total votes : 77

Postby Owzat » Wed May 20, 2009 9:04 am

vegnomeat wrote:I wouldn't want RAFA sacked if we don't win next year. I would ask for reason, this has been a challenging season (although empty ultimately) and can only serve to help the club forward. I remember the 05/06 season  when we finished with 82 points, we then took a few steps backwards before finally progressing this year.

I would say though that in my honest opinion we won't take 12 points off Chelski and the mancs next year and we may have a tougher season. All the while though we will be gaining experience which will stand us in good stead.

regards

You have to judge Rafa (or anyone) on performance not necessarily on result. Obviously if we win the title few will care if it isn't the greatest season in terms of performance.

We probably won't take 12 points of the mancs and Chelsea, I think it's more likely we'll draw or lose away to those next season. They're not guaranteed points by any means, in fact we did exceptionally well to get to 82 points in 05/06 with 10 less points against the 'big four'.

05/06 82 points

vs 'Big Four' : P6 W1 D1 L4 PTS 4 (Won 16.67%)
vs Rest : P32 W24 D6 L2 PTS 78 (Won 75.00%)

08/09 83 points

vs 'Big Four' : P6 W4 D2 L0 PTS 14 (Won 66.67%)
vs positions 5-20 : P31 W20 D9 L2 PTS 69 (Won 64.52%)

05/06 was excellent against the rest of the league, poor against the 'big four', this season it is the games against the rest that have been the disappointment.

Mancs 08/09

vs 'Big Four' : P6 W1 D2 L3 PTS 5 (Won 16.67%)
vs positions 5-20 : P31 W26 D4 L1 PTS (Won 83.87%)

SIX more wins than us over the rest, perhaps a reflection of their squad depth. The mancs being able to spend the same sort of money we spend on 1st team players on kids and squad is definitely an advantage. Those two serbian kids, Nani and Anderson, Rafael and his brother, the reported £6m on a Dodo etc. That's no excuse for us though, for not beating Hull, Stoke, West Ham and Fulham at home. Isn't the gap between us and the mancs the same as the number of points dropped against Stoke (4) or Stoke and Hull at home (4)...........................? We've lost TWO less games than them, shows they aren't invulnerable. Also shows that they simply win games that we draw, they've picked up maximum points against Hull, WBA and Stoke so far and are likely only to drop points against Hull now they've sealed the title and have a final to prepare for. We've dropped six points against the newly promoted sides, we have always had that tendancy and we don't always pick up maximum points against sides that end up relegated either (11/18 last season)
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Postby dafurf » Wed May 20, 2009 10:04 am

Any talk of sacking Rafa is silly.We`ve just beaten our highest points tally in the PL ever and a few new faces should push us in to winning it next season.
In Rafa I trust.
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Postby ConnO'var » Wed May 20, 2009 3:09 pm

Any talk of sacking Rafa NOW, is silly....... only because, it'll cause the club a huge amount.
That contract he signed this season is possibly the biggest mistake we've made as a club in recent years.
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Postby DrPepe » Wed May 20, 2009 4:10 pm

ConnO'var wrote:Any talk of sacking Rafa NOW, is silly....... only because, it'll cause the club a huge amount.
That contract he signed this season is possibly the biggest mistake we've made as a club in recent years.

sounness?
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Postby Roger Red Hat » Wed May 20, 2009 4:16 pm

ConnO'var wrote:Any talk of sacking Rafa NOW, is silly....... only because, it'll cause the club a huge amount.
That contract he signed this season is possibly the biggest mistake we've made as a club in recent years.

what? have I read that right? please correct me if Im wrong but it read like you were saying extending rafa's contract was a big mistake?

im confused
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Postby Alex G. » Wed May 20, 2009 9:00 pm

At the end the contracts doesn´t mean anything if the people want the manager out.
Personally i don´t think the problem is Rafa, tough I disagree with him in any things.
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Postby Madmax » Thu May 21, 2009 12:23 am

Next season must be the one for rafa. For me the title is a must. This season we were very close and looking at some of our poor displays we basically handed the title over to united. If rafa does get the players he wants, spends quite big (whatever the budget is) and yet we still dont win the title then i would admit there is a problem with rafa and we will never win the title under him....

Anyhow im sure will will be a stronger force next season and for once i am going to say we could win the title. Usually i always think maybe 2nd or 3rd in the table but this time i feel it could be our chance.
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Postby ConnO'var » Thu May 21, 2009 2:14 am

Lee J wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Any talk of sacking Rafa NOW, is silly....... only because, it'll cause the club a huge amount.
That contract he signed this season is possibly the biggest mistake we've made as a club in recent years.

what? have I read that right? please correct me if Im wrong but it read like you were saying extending rafa's contract was a big mistake?

im confused

I'm afraid so LeeJ.... I hope I'm wrong but I think it was a mistake firstly to extend his contract and secondly to give him more control over transfer matters.

Dr Pepper,

I stand corrected mate.... :D
"The biggest mistake in the last decade" is what I should have typed.
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Postby lakes10 » Thu May 21, 2009 8:37 am

ConnO'var wrote:
Lee J wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Any talk of sacking Rafa NOW, is silly....... only because, it'll cause the club a huge amount.
That contract he signed this season is possibly the biggest mistake we've made as a club in recent years.

what? have I read that right? please correct me if Im wrong but it read like you were saying extending rafa's contract was a big mistake?

im confused

I'm afraid so LeeJ.... I hope I'm wrong but I think it was a mistake firstly to extend his contract and secondly to give him more control over transfer matters.

Dr Pepper,

I stand corrected mate.... :D
"The biggest mistake in the last decade" is what I should have typed.

got to say i am with you there, a shorter one would have been better, but dont forget that thew the club can still sack him if he dont do his job, i am sure we have a loop hole there that if we dont get in the top 5 by xmas he could be sack and it would not cost us much......i bloody would.

my problem would be if we are in the top 4 and 20 points off the top spot, now that would cost us a hell of a lot to sack him.
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Postby GYBS » Thu May 21, 2009 9:32 am

Nice to see the positiveness we have gained from this season is still flowing - Giving our best manager since Kenny an extended contract after giving us our best ever prem season since it started a msitake ?!?!?!?! wtf guys
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Postby Sabre » Thu May 21, 2009 9:35 am

GYBS wrote:Nice to see the positiveness we have gained from this season is still flowing - Giving our best manager since Kenny an extended contract after giving us our best ever prem season since it started a msitake ?!?!?!?! wtf guys

It's ok fans having their opinions.

As long as the ones offering the contracts do the things right.  :)
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Postby bigmick » Thu May 21, 2009 12:05 pm

GYBS wrote:Nice to see the positiveness we have gained from this season is still flowing - Giving our best manager since Kenny an extended contract after giving us our best ever prem season since it started a msitake ?!?!?!?! wtf guys

It's a forum mate. Those are generally made up of people with varying opinions. I actually disagree with the guys, but it WILL throw up some interesting dilemmas for many fans should we follow this excellent season in a similar way to the last time we had our "record points total".

Equally, if we spunk 40 million quid this Summer with the same gay abandom with which we did last time, then legitimate questions will be asked. Also, should Man Utd and/or Chelsea actually manage to take some points off us next season, the whole thing may take on a different light. I understand some fans concerns, I share some of them but after this season and the "lessons we've learned" I can't get away from the idea that Rafa will win the league at least once during the course of his contract if he pays heed to them (the lessons that is). Bring a new manager in, and I'm far from convinced that anybody with the possible exception of one bloke would have a greater chance of winning the title.

For now though, the success of the team has meant that some of the probing questions are kicked into the long grass, and probably rightly so. There are obviously legitimate concerns about last Summers spree, but also I think the season before this one now looks a little different when you really look at it. A fit Torres for practically the whole season, 30 odd goals, Gerrard mostly fit throughout as well and we never landed a blow in the title race. I can't look at it now with anything other than a conviction that it was a season of massive underachievement, and equally the reasons for it are fairly obvious to see in my eyes.

Anyways, fortunately we seem to have got it out of our system for now, and although I think there is a distinct possibility that we will finish further back next season than we will this, I would still be very much in favour with sticking with the manager now he has been given the contract.
Last edited by bigmick on Thu May 21, 2009 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby stmichael » Thu May 21, 2009 12:14 pm

bigmick wrote:I think there is a distinct possibility that we will finish further back next season than we will this

It's gonna be an interesting summer that's for sure.

United will only bring in 1, maybe 2 players, depending on whether Ronaldo goes or not. If he stays they'll probably look for a Tevez replacement and a right back.

Chelsea will be strong but I have reservations about Ancelotti, as I did about Scolari. They also have a very ageing squad with something like 10 players over 30. If Hiddink had stayed I'd class them as a bigger threat than United in a way.

Arsenal have a nucleus of players who are excellent but unless Wenger changes his philosophy on transfers I see them finishing 4th again.
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Postby ConnO'var » Thu May 21, 2009 3:04 pm

GYBS wrote:Nice to see the positiveness we have gained from this season is still flowing - Giving our best manager since Kenny an extended contract after giving us our best ever prem season since it started a msitake ?!?!?!?! wtf guys

Opinions mate..... you have yours and I have mine.

Of course Rafa is the best manager since Kenny.... Good, but still not good enough.... Kenny was the last one to bring home the premiership.... I have no wish to mire in mediocrity.... we've done that long enough....

That's why I still hold the torch for his return...... failing that, I've long advocated Hiddink as well.

Let's see what happens in the summer. I pray that it's a good one and we push on from this season's effort. Not much time left.

Utd are perilously close to eclipsing our mantle as the best club in England (records wise). Ferguson is close to achieving his stated ambition of knocking us of our perch. Our captain and talisman is in his prime and will, in all likelihood, start his journey down the other side of the hill in a season or two. Carra has already started his journey. And we've choked on the best chance we've had in years of winning the premiership due to negative tactics, rotation, poor buys, injuries, bad luck, zonal marking or any number of other excuses/reasons we can come up with..... And we want to persist with the man who acts the goat in the press and, in recent times, behaves in exactly the same way that the whiskey nosed one has been doing in the past (much to our disgust).... losing the dignity of the club along the way?

I certainly don't. As far as I'm concerned.... we should have been rid of him at the end of this season. Seeing as we can't now, due the ridiculous cost of giving him a golden handshake, we'll have to see how this all pans out. Evaluate at the end of the season yet again.....

I'll tell you now..... my patience has all but run out with Rafa.
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu May 21, 2009 3:50 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
GYBS wrote:Nice to see the positiveness we have gained from this season is still flowing - Giving our best manager since Kenny an extended contract after giving us our best ever prem season since it started a msitake ?!?!?!?! wtf guys

Opinions mate..... you have yours and I have mine.

Of course Rafa is the best manager since Kenny.... Good, but still not good enough.... Kenny was the last one to bring home the premiership.... I have no wish to mire in mediocrity.... we've done that long enough....

That's why I still hold the torch for his return...... failing that, I've long advocated Hiddink as well.

Let's see what happens in the summer. I pray that it's a good one and we push on from this season's effort. Not much time left.

Utd are perilously close to eclipsing our mantle as the best club in England (records wise). Ferguson is close to achieving his stated ambition of knocking us of our perch. Our captain and talisman is in his prime and will, in all likelihood, start his journey down the other side of the hill in a season or two. Carra has already started his journey. And we've choked on the best chance we've had in years of winning the premiership due to negative tactics, rotation, poor buys, injuries, bad luck, zonal marking or any number of other excuses/reasons we can come up with..... And we want to persist with the man who acts the goat in the press and, in recent times, behaves in exactly the same way that the whiskey nosed one has been doing in the past (much to our disgust).... losing the dignity of the club along the way?

I certainly don't. As far as I'm concerned.... we should have been rid of him at the end of this season. Seeing as we can't now, due the ridiculous cost of giving him a golden handshake, we'll have to see how this all pans out. Evaluate at the end of the season yet again.....

I'll tell you now..... my patience has all but run out with Rafa.

Top post mate. Sums up most of my feelings perfectly, although even if he hadn't signed a new contract I would have wanted him to have one more season.
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