Liverpool FC Forum

by **Madmax** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:50 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:An off day. Nothing more.

yeah shyte happens and results of this nature to happen once in blue moon.. important thing is move on and bash blackburn to get our confidence high. Also hope we give chelsea a good battle at the bridge and im sure we will..

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:05 pm

This whole debate drives me mad.

System is fine. Players didn't work it properly.

by **Greavesie** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Pepe Reina admits Liverpool must improve their defending from set-pieces after two headed goals from Branislav Ivanovic during the 3-1 defeat to Chelsea.
The Spain international was disappointed at the manner of the goals in Wednesday's Champions League quarter-final first leg but insists it would be ridiculous to blame zonal marking.

"You are always disappointed when you concede, but especially from set-pieces," Reina told Liverpoolfc.tv. "It's something we'll have to work on.

"It's always the same when we concede goals from free-kicks - people start talking about man marking and zonal. But we've done it for five years and, although I don't have the statistics, I know we're one of the teams that concedes fewest from set pieces."

Didier Drogba added the third as Liverpool slumped to their first home loss in 14 months.

Reina accepts he and his teammates were second best on the night, but insists their dream of reaching the final in Rome is not over.

"They were the better team and they deserved the victory," he said. "We now have to improve on everything we did on the night and be ready for the second leg.

"It's going to be much tougher to win the trophy now - we have to go there and win 3-1 or 3-0. But we can go to any stadium and win.

"Of course the 4-1 at Old Trafford gives us hope - it shows us what we can do at any stadium. We won like that at Old Trafford, why not at Stamford Bridge?

"It has to be a perfect performance. We have to have a great day and they must have one of their worst."

The Reds now need to focus on Saturday's early kick-off against Blackburn, a chance to overtake leaders Manchester United.

Reina added: "It's another competition and we are very much alive in the title race. It's an important game, and early kick-offs are never easy against a rested team, so we have to be ready.

"It's our job to be ready. Whenever we lose games we have to come in the next day and forget about what happened so we can try to move forward and improve.

"We now have to prove to ourselves and our fans that we're still there in the league."

:nod

by **tubby** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:17 pm

They just done some stats on SSN and we conceded the most % of goals from set pieces. So does this mean the system is wrong or the players are not playing the system properly? I suspect the latter but when I look at Skrtel last night it I am not surprised.

by **tonyeh** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:52 pm

Interesting that Bav.

Last night after the match, John Giles, Eamon Dunphy and Ronnie Whelan gave zonal marking the thumbs down and I agree with them.

There are glaring problems with zonal marking and if a team are wise enough to exploit those problems, then they have a very good chance of getting free space to score.

I still maintain that if a Liverpool defender had been given the task of marking Ivanovic and not the space he may potentially run into, then it would have been harder for him to get the space to score.

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:39 pm

No system is perfect. It's just that because we're Liverpool, and the first in the PL to use the zonal marking system, the media and commentators like to point out its flaws every time we concede.

Chelsea managed to exploit it to perfection yesterday. How many times has it been done to that standard before? Take a look at our defensive record in the league table. That speaks for itself and proves the system works.

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:43 pm

bavlondon wrote:They just done some stats on SSN and we conceded the most % of goals from set pieces. So does this mean the system is wrong or the players are not playing the system properly? I suspect the latter but when I look at Skrtel last night it I am not surprised.

that just means that we don't give up many goals from open play

by **tubby** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:57 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
bavlondon wrote:They just done some stats on SSN and we conceded the most % of goals from set pieces. So does this mean the system is wrong or the players are not playing the system properly? I suspect the latter but when I look at Skrtel last night it I am not surprised.

that just means that we don't give up many goals from open play

Thats no compensation for the goals from set pieces. Maybe Rafa needs to change his tactics for during set pieces. For example certain players who have been known to pose an threat in the air should be man marked whilst the rest zonal mark.

by **zarababe** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:02 pm

off day simply... don't disect every bl*ody thing

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163955090409-0941.htm

by **tonyeh** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:08 pm

stmichael wrote:No system is perfect. It's just that because we're Liverpool, and the first in the PL to use the zonal marking system, the media and commentators like to point out its flaws every time we concede.

Chelsea managed to exploit it to perfection yesterday. How many times has it been done to that standard before? Take a look at our defensive record in the league table. That speaks for itself and proves the system works.

As has been said before, the "defensive record" won't tell the whole story.

To truly get a clear picture, you'd need to look at every corner against us and tot up, not just the concessions, but the misses, near misses and saves.

It's not how many goals have been conceded that will show the system up, it's how many times an opposition player gets the free space to have a go on goal (whether they score or not).

The major flaw with zonal marking is attention split. Does Defender A, who is marking Zone A, leave Zone A when Attacker A runs through Zone A into Zone B? Therefore, leaving Zone A unmarked for Attacker B to move into?

Or, does Defender A simply leave Attacker A unmarked and hope that Defender B is quick enough to see Attacker A run into his Zone (B)?

by **simolonge** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:42 pm

bavlondon wrote:They just done some stats on SSN and we conceded the most % of goals from set pieces. So does this mean the system is wrong or the players are not playing the system properly? I suspect the latter but when I look at Skrtel last night it I am not surprised.

Or does it mean that the system we operate defending is that good that the ONLY way teams can score is through set play ?

Stats can be manipulated to show ANYTHING.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:53 pm

Time to drop it I feel man to man on corners is way to go always but in normal play zonal ain't got problem with it.

But i also feel zonal marking wasn't reason why we lost to goals from corners last night I feel its yet agian alonso an skrtels lack of want to challange for headers that cost us.

Even gerrard didn't look like he wanted too.

To sum it up last night was very bazzar on many levels.

by **akumaface** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:06 pm

LegBarnes wrote:Time to drop it I feel man to man on corners is way to go always but in normal play zonal ain't got problem with it.

But i also feel zonal marking wasn't reason why we lost to goals from corners last night I feel its yet agian alonso an skrtels lack of want to challange for headers that cost us.

Even gerrard didn't look like he wanted too.

To sum it up last night was very bazzar on many levels.

I think the question is whether we have the right player to use Zonal Marking. The answer to that question is yes but not on corners. We must use man to man marking and need to know who to mark. In many occasions, our players were confused and missed their assignment. Ever since Sami was no longer the starter, we really had problems in the air. We had lost so many header this season (not just from Corners but everywhere). Rafa may need to find someone who is superior in the air like Sami to play with either Carra or Agger. Skrtel's timing and judgement in the air is not that good. Hopefully rafa can someone in the summer and address this problem. This problem is quite serious as it was nerve racking to watch whenever there is a corner if Sami is not playing.

by **Zidane** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:11 pm

Like Rafa said it isn't the system it's the players, they played horribly, didn't show up and made silly defending mistakes. It is easy to see really I don't see how people can blame zonal marking when the players are just standing around ball watching. We played like :censored:

yesterday end of. Don't listen to the media.

by **heimdall** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:12 pm

We definitely look dodgy on set pieces, e.g yesterday and also that pr1ck Cahill so something needs to be changed. I agree that zonal seems fine in open play but on set pieces I think man to man is easier to do and more effective.

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