Liverpool FC Forum

by **Redman in wales** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:13 pm

s@int wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:1 more bad season might be all that is needed to destroy us for another 5 years imo.

This is the bit that really concerns me mate. I think this season we had our best chance in donkeys years to win the title this year, and we blew it.

The last time I really thought we had as good a chance as this was 1996 when we actually had a better team than the mancs, but unfortunately a manager who wasn't quite good/strong enough. We blew our chance then and the mancs strengthened and although we have come closer(points and positionally) on quite a few occasions since never really made a challenge we could all believe was as genuine.

This season due to a combination of good fortune (own goals /sendings off) great comebacks, grinding out results and our rivals stuttering and in some cases blowing up, we had the opportunity of a lifetime. We failed to take advantage of it unfortunately, maybe with a different manager we would have?

The mancs will strengthen AGAIN, Chelsea will probably recover their form under a new manager and maybe even Arsenal will splash the cash? While the pretenders Villa and Citeh will no doubt be pushing for top four next season. Things are only going to get tougher imo. If Rafa couldn't do it this season with EVERYTHING seemingly going his way early on, maybe like Evans he never will?

good post saint. it worries me too.

by **GYBS** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:31 pm

In Gh last two season we were miles behind the leaders and struggling to get into the CL as well as not competing in europe - so this season or rafas season are nothing compared GH last two seasons .

1 more bad season ?! when was our last bad season ? just because we dont win the league doesnt mean its a bad season . Not qualifying for europe qualifies as a bad season .

Oh and good post Bob - you got it spot on .

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:33 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Maybe that is because at this moment in time i am really not sure exactly what my view is.
After the Real Madrid game i was obviously delighted and know that in that area Rafa is the man, and his record shouldnt be dismissed in an...well its only europe, we know he's good at that, kind of way.
The sides that we have beaten, and the stadiums we have won in show the manager at his brilliant best.

But then you do worry based on recent seasons if he can get it right, with regards to our own league and breaking down stubborn opposition.
The jury is well and truly still out on that one.

Well said, mate. Sums up my views as well. I have complete faith that Rafa can lead us to glory in Europe on a fairly consistent basis. Whether he can do the same in the league, however, is a huge question mark at the moment for me.

If we lose to madrid tho will you still think he can lead us in europe or if we go out round after you still be happy ?

Its all if's and butt's end of day wish some of you on fence would get ya 's up and make up ya mind.

word coward springs to mind.

Tbh I have more respect for the pro's then the fence sitters at least they putting there necks out and saying what they believe even tho its delouded of course.

I see, it's cowardly to say that Benitez is brilliant in Europe but considerably short of that in the league. How craven of me.

You, on the other hand, are one of the bravest lads on here. You post complete and utter nonsense 98% of the time and get rumbled for it on a regular basis. Yet, you still manage to find the self-belief/self-delusion required to come back time and again and condescend to people who actually put a moment's thought into their views. Yes, it takes a brave man indeed to ridicule others, given the bollox you consistently chat.

nonesense cos you say so ?

I know alot of people on forum understand where I come from.

Just cos ya avatar is god don't meen you can hide behind it and think every thing you say is gospel ffs.

In fact sitting on the fence is being a coward and no suprise tbh from you.

I really think its poor form for a mod to fabricate the truth you ment to be in a postion of power and as such abusing it is a childish thing to do.

Fabricating the truth? About what? That you talk nonsense? You provide more evidence of it by the day, mate. The other day you were trying to tell people that Rafa had nothing to do with the Champions League win in 2005--ignoring the fact that he bought players (Alonso and Garcia) that made huge contributions to that win and that he organized a team riddled with mediocre players (Traore, Smicer, Biscan, Dudek, Baros...) into one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe. Complete and utter bollox to suggest that Rafa had no hand in winning us the cup. Now, today, you're trying to convince people that it's entirely Rafa's fault that Babel's done feck all this season and, yet, somehow he's been no worse than Torres. Bollox. Even when struggling to regain fitness, Torres is thrice the player Babel is and that's just focusing on skill, rather than on work ethic and commitment (in which case, Torres is five times the player Babel is). So, yes, you talk utter bollox 98% of the time. QED.

As for the tsk, tsking because I'm a Mod you can spare me. You call me a coward and then expect me to keep schtum because I'm a Mod? Not happening, sunshine. :glare:

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:41 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:Maybe that is because at this moment in time i am really not sure exactly what my view is.
After the Real Madrid game i was obviously delighted and know that in that area Rafa is the man, and his record shouldnt be dismissed in an...well its only europe, we know he's good at that, kind of way.
The sides that we have beaten, and the stadiums we have won in show the manager at his brilliant best.

But then you do worry based on recent seasons if he can get it right, with regards to our own league and breaking down stubborn opposition.
The jury is well and truly still out on that one.

Well said, mate. Sums up my views as well. I have complete faith that Rafa can lead us to glory in Europe on a fairly consistent basis. Whether he can do the same in the league, however, is a huge question mark at the moment for me.

If we lose to madrid tho will you still think he can lead us in europe or if we go out round after you still be happy ?

Its all if's and butt's end of day wish some of you on fence would get ya 's up and make up ya mind.

word coward springs to mind.

Tbh I have more respect for the pro's then the fence sitters at least they putting there necks out and saying what they believe even tho its delouded of course.

I see, it's cowardly to say that Benitez is brilliant in Europe but considerably short of that in the league. How craven of me.

You, on the other hand, are one of the bravest lads on here. You post complete and utter nonsense 98% of the time and get rumbled for it on a regular basis. Yet, you still manage to find the self-belief/self-delusion required to come back time and again and condescend to people who actually put a moment's thought into their views. Yes, it takes a brave man indeed to ridicule others, given the bollox you consistently chat.

nonesense cos you say so ?

I know alot of people on forum understand where I come from.

Just cos ya avatar is god don't meen you can hide behind it and think every thing you say is gospel ffs.

In fact sitting on the fence is being a coward and no suprise tbh from you.

I really think its poor form for a mod to fabricate the truth you ment to be in a postion of power and as such abusing it is a childish thing to do.

Fabricating the truth? About what? That you talk nonsense? You provide more evidence of it by the day, mate. The other day you were trying to tell people that Rafa had nothing to do with the Champions League win in 2005--ignoring the fact that he bought players (Alonso and Garcia) that made huge contributions to that win and that he organized a team riddled with mediocre players (Traore, Smicer, Biscan, Dudek, Baros...) into one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe. Complete and utter bollox to suggest that Rafa had no hand in winning us the cup. Now, today, you're trying to convince people that it's entirely Rafa's fault that Babel's done feck all this season and, yet, somehow he's been no worse than Torres. Bollox. Even when struggling to regain fitness, Torres is thrice the player Babel is and that's just focusing on skill, rather than on work ethic and commitment (in which case, Torres is five times the player Babel is). So, yes, you talk utter bollox 98% of the time. QED.

As for the tsk, tsking because I'm a Mod you can spare me. You call me a coward and then expect me to keep schtum because I'm a Mod? Not happening, sunshine.

all you said there was wrong tbh.

never said babel was as good as torres you made that bit up.

Never said rafa had no part in winning CL I said he never had as much to do with it as some people make out , another bit you made up.

Its is rafas fault babel is so bad its coaching and lack of pitch time.

If babel was a reg he would be 3 times the player then what rafa allows him to be.

So really it seems you are 98% bull sh.it when it suits you.

by **GYBS** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:47 pm

You actually did say rafa had nothing to do with us winning the cl and also stated it was all the players and players that rafa didnt buy won the cl.

And as for babel - he has played plenty of times and every single time has been poor . even last season he was nowehere near good enough and doesnt deserve to be a reg over any other player, Rafas coaching doesnt seem to of been a problem with torres,masher etc etc . what would you like to blame rafa for next ?

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:49 pm

Coward am i

Strange comment, but whatever.

Just to confirm, at this moment in time i am probably nearing the stage saint is at now, gradually thinking he probably isnt the man for the job.
I was definately getting there after the man city draw.
Then we went to the bernabeu and won, now some might say its fickle for the feelings that he must go to recede a little, i just say its human nature.
A massive win like that (which imo it was) proves that we could be possible of winning the european cup again, which would be unbelievable.

If we then go and lose at Boro then my faith my dwindle somewhat again.
Its a results business and a good result can change a whole season.

I am not saying i am like...sack the manager now if we lose...more just coming to an acceptance that it could be for the best.

Wish i was brave like you though lid :laugh:

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:52 pm

GYBS wrote:You actually did say rafa had nothing to do with us winning the cl and also stated it was all the players and players that rafa didnt buy won the cl.

And as for babel - he has played plenty of times and every single time has been poor . even last season he was nowehere near good enough and doesnt deserve to be a reg over any other player, Rafas coaching doesnt seem to of been a problem with torres,masher etc etc . what would you like to blame rafa for next ?

he was great last season stop talking out ya :censored:

mate jesus.

most on here was impressed with him end of last season so got no idea where you comming from on that one.

As for CL yeah he had a hand in it no one could say he didn't he was manager ffs.

But as for tactical master who changed it to get us perfect victory I think it was more to do with 1 or 2 players playing out of there skin 2nd half and fact fans kept all singing no matter what.

As such he was lucky man right place at right time.

things worked out well and I am happy we won but don't kid ya self for a secound that he is tactical master cos if he would surely we would have won the other CL final and one in between o no we didn't did we cos rafa went out and bought his type of players now we couldn't win any thing if we tryed.

by **GYBS** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:52 pm

he isnt brave he just spout utter rubbish and nonsense and is clouded in his dislike against rafa .

Plenty of people on here dont think rafa is up to the job but they back up their opinion with facts and a basis of a good debate where as it seems one person backs it up with stuff that comes out of a cows :censored:

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:55 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:Coward am i

Strange comment, but whatever.

Just to confirm, at this moment in time i am probably nearing the stage saint is at now, gradually thinking he probably isnt the man for the job.
I was definately getting there after the man city draw.
Then we went to the bernabeu and won, now some might say its fickle for the feelings that he must go to recede a little, i just say its human nature.
A massive win like that (which imo it was) proves that we could be possible of winning the european cup again, which would be unbelievable.

If we then go and lose at Boro then my faith my dwindle somewhat again.
Its a results business and a good result can change a whole season.

I am not saying i am like...sack the manager now if we lose...more just coming to an acceptance that it could be for the best.

Wish i was brave like you though lid

Yeah well coward might have been little strong a word I just think its the easy choice to sit on the fence 99% of the time.

Most of time it helps no one or no cause.

We have at club atm either a bad manage for another 5 years or a league winning manager at club for another 5 years.

No one atm can say 100% either is true so sitting on fence won't help at all we either decide as a group he stays or as a group he go's cos when or if he sign's that contract thats it for 5 year unless of cos we get rid next season and then we wasted X amount of money on his pay off.

by **GYBS** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:55 pm

Babel was great last season --- when the feck was that then

?!?!

Who changed the tactics at half time ? the players or the manager ? who told Gerrard to go to right back in extra time ? read carras book and it will tell you how influential Rafa was in Istanbul

We didnt win against Milan cause we didnt take our chances

We didnt beat chelsea cause we gave away a silly own goal . both you cant blame the manager for

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:58 pm

GYBS wrote:Babel was great last season --- when the feck was that then ?!?!

Who changed the tactics at half time ? the players or the manager ? who told Gerrard to go to right back in extra time ? read carras book and it will tell you how influential Rafa was in Istanbul

We didnt win against Milan cause we didnt take our chances

We didnt beat chelsea cause we gave away a silly own goal . both you cant blame the manager for

Ok so u can praise manager for CL final he wins but you can't blame him if we lose thats logic right there for ya.

Jesus you have the balls to say I talk out my ar.se with that bollox.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:04 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:

Fabricating the truth? About what? That you talk nonsense? You provide more evidence of it by the day, mate. The other day you were trying to tell people that Rafa had nothing to do with the Champions League win in 2005--ignoring the fact that he bought players (Alonso and Garcia) that made huge contributions to that win and that he organized a team riddled with mediocre players (Traore, Smicer, Biscan, Dudek, Baros...) into one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe. Complete and utter bollox to suggest that Rafa had no hand in winning us the cup. Now, today, you're trying to convince people that it's entirely Rafa's fault that Babel's done feck all this season and, yet, somehow he's been no worse than Torres. Bollox. Even when struggling to regain fitness, Torres is thrice the player Babel is and that's just focusing on skill, rather than on work ethic and commitment (in which case, Torres is five times the player Babel is). So, yes, you talk utter bollox 98% of the time. QED.

As for the tsk, tsking because I'm a Mod you can spare me. You call me a coward and then expect me to keep schtum because I'm a Mod? Not happening, sunshine.

all you said there was wrong tbh.

never said babel was as good as torres you made that bit up.

Never said rafa had no part in winning CL I said he never had as much to do with it as some people make out , another bit you made up.

Its is rafas fault babel is so bad its coaching and lack of pitch time.

If babel was a reg he would be 3 times the player then what rafa allows him to be.

So really it seems you are 98% bull sh.it when it suits you.

Read the highlighted bit from my post above and then read your line below? Still think I called it wrong?

LegBarnes wrote:Also Do you feel he has performed any worse then torres has on his return I remeber alot of people saying Torres is back but he needs games for fitness and sharpness but tbh fair when its babel every one expsects him to perform right out of the box.

Its double standards I tell you and for the pro rafas babel as a few others are easy targets.

As for Rafa's role in winning the Champions League, read your original post back to yourself and tell me where you give the manager any credit whatsoever?

LegBarnes wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:The fact that he won us the champions league in his first season showed us a sparkling light of hope in that, ok, he doesnt have the best players at his disposal, but he can indeed get the best out of them.

With a team that he didn't buy one player for , so did he really win it or was it the good work Hollier did ?

I like to think it was just the magic of the fans and a few great player performances 2nd half lets not forgot that leap gerrard made for first goal if it wasn't for gerrard we never would have come back in that game.

I meen any one would have put gerrard in the team that day , Rafa master of tactics ? Or just lucky to fall on a team with a good ballance.

Remember more players he has bought and sold worse our team has become.

Yer, okay, I just made it all up. :glare:

Anyway, people can judge for themselves what you bring to the discussion. You've made it clear from your initial post that you don't respect me and so I think it's only fair to show you that the feeling is decidedly mutual. Now, this will be my last word on the matter, unless you decide you'd like to call me or others cowards again for recognizing that the world isn't always black and white.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:11 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:

Fabricating the truth? About what? That you talk nonsense? You provide more evidence of it by the day, mate. The other day you were trying to tell people that Rafa had nothing to do with the Champions League win in 2005--ignoring the fact that he bought players (Alonso and Garcia) that made huge contributions to that win and that he organized a team riddled with mediocre players (Traore, Smicer, Biscan, Dudek, Baros...) into one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe. Complete and utter bollox to suggest that Rafa had no hand in winning us the cup. Now, today, you're trying to convince people that it's entirely Rafa's fault that Babel's done feck all this season and, yet, somehow he's been no worse than Torres. Bollox. Even when struggling to regain fitness, Torres is thrice the player Babel is and that's just focusing on skill, rather than on work ethic and commitment (in which case, Torres is five times the player Babel is). So, yes, you talk utter bollox 98% of the time. QED.

As for the tsk, tsking because I'm a Mod you can spare me. You call me a coward and then expect me to keep schtum because I'm a Mod? Not happening, sunshine.

all you said there was wrong tbh.

never said babel was as good as torres you made that bit up.

Never said rafa had no part in winning CL I said he never had as much to do with it as some people make out , another bit you made up.

Its is rafas fault babel is so bad its coaching and lack of pitch time.

If babel was a reg he would be 3 times the player then what rafa allows him to be.

So really it seems you are 98% bull sh.it when it suits you.

Read the highlighted bit from my post above and then read your line below? Still think I called it wrong?

LegBarnes wrote:Also Do you feel he has performed any worse then torres has on his return I remeber alot of people saying Torres is back but he needs games for fitness and sharpness but tbh fair when its babel every one expsects him to perform right out of the box.

Its double standards I tell you and for the pro rafas babel as a few others are easy targets.

As for Rafa's role in winning the Champions League, read your original post back to yourself and tell me where you give the manager any credit whatsoever?

LegBarnes wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:The fact that he won us the champions league in his first season showed us a sparkling light of hope in that, ok, he doesnt have the best players at his disposal, but he can indeed get the best out of them.

With a team that he didn't buy one player for , so did he really win it or was it the good work Hollier did ?

I like to think it was just the magic of the fans and a few great player performances 2nd half lets not forgot that leap gerrard made for first goal if it wasn't for gerrard we never would have come back in that game.

I meen any one would have put gerrard in the team that day , Rafa master of tactics ? Or just lucky to fall on a team with a good ballance.

Remember more players he has bought and sold worse our team has become.

Yer, okay, I just made it all up.

Anyway, people can judge for themselves what you bring to the discussion. You've made it clear from your initial post that you don't respect me and so I think it's only fair to show you that the feeling is decidedly mutual. Now, this will be my last word on the matter, unless you decide you'd like to call me or others cowards again for recognizing that the world isn't always black and white.

Yes you have taken the first part of a bigger section of my post to prove a point but the whole post paints different picure.

You have the tallents of a jurno talking total bolloxs and for that I can say only one thing "noob".

Quote (LegBarnes @ Mar. 03 2009,09:34)
Also Do you feel he has performed any worse then torres has on his return I remeber alot of people saying Torres is back but he needs games for fitness and sharpness but tbh fair when its babel every one expsects him to perform right out of the box.

Its double standards I tell you and for the pro rafas babel as a few others are easy targets.

see here you highlighted part that supported you wild claim

Quote (LegBarnes @ Mar. 03 2009,09:34)
Also Do you feel he has performed any worse then torres has on his return I remeber alot of people saying Torres is back but he needs games for fitness and sharpness but tbh fair when its babel every one expsects him to perform right out of the box.

Its double standards I tell you and for the pro rafas babel as a few others are easy targets.

See how I added on his return shows my true statement as in babel lakcs fitness and sharpeness as did torres after his return.

So i wasn't saying in general babel is as good as Torres but I said babel was no worse while not playing then torres was after a spell out of team.

As for respecting you I have far little after you trying to hoodwink my statement to support your own.

O and bob don't reply to any more of my posts as i won't yours today you proved to me what a horrid little idiot you truely are and won't nothing more to do with ya.

by **Yooj Bigullz** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:15 pm

It's a strange one, the ol' Rafa debate.

He's had to gamble in the transfer market, I mean with unproven quality like Lucas, Babel, Kuyt, Agger, Skrtel. No one can argue with his central defenders. The gamble has seemed to fail with most of his attacking signings. If he's a poker player, he's chasing a flush and left with nothing after the river, got raised, then folded.

Personally, I think Rafa's 'studious and meticulous' approach is perfect for Europe. I don't think it works well in the league, as it often appears negative to myself and numerous others.

The owners will accept top 4 and K.O stages of CL i'd imagine. Anything less then he'll be up $hit creek. I think he'll be around for a while, and he won't win the league in that time

by **Reg** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:28 pm

All things are cyclical, whether short, medium or long term.

Notts Forest success cycle was short, Leeds long cycle decline, LFC had back to back long success then failure cycles, ManUre a long success, Chelsea a stuttering success cycle that might be over. Arsenal might have peaked and might now be into a decline cycle.

Liverpool will have false dawns which is normal, GED won the FA Cup and UEFA cups but didnt crack the league, Rafa has maintained the cup success with 5 consecutive semifinal and better CL seasons whilst getting us to the top of the league for a short while and hopefully to come in second.

Its cyclical - when Fergienose retires, ManUre will have to work darn hard not to go off the boil. Three assistant managers have fallen by the wayside - Kidd, Maclaren and the portuguese lad so there is no logical successor. Their team is aging and expensive etc.. so they could be peaking all together - players, manager and club influence.

With Arsenal off the boil and Chelsea stuttering LFC could have their first championship win in the coming 2 seasons that would start another success cycle that 'should' last at least further 5 years until Gerrard retires.

We shouldnt look at it always so emotionally as averages, statistics and probability rules explain most of what goes on.

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