Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:56 pm

bigmick wrote:
Sabre wrote:So, what about the experiment, then. It went better than Skrtl experiment. I know Mick mentioned a mistake of Mascha, I know he wasn't pushed a lot, but credit for the man, the experiment worked.

I thought Mash did well, although Sunderlands Andy Reid wouldn't have presented the sternest examination. When I said about his "mistake" I wasn't really having a go at Mash. It was just the one time when his natural enthusiastic instinct got the better of him. To tell the truth I was p!ssing myself watching it. There was Insua, doing exactly the right thing, shepherding the ball carrier, holding him up etc and then out of nowhere the right full back who has sprinted 60 yards accross the pitch to get there, steps in, dumps the bloke on his erse and takes the ball away . It wasn't a foul either IMHO, and fair play to Mash but you can't really do that from right full back, funny as it was.

Yeh, I guess today you could see little glitches that reminded you he's out of position.

But this time it was glitches, in Skrtl case it was a constant mess. Not advicing to play Mascherano (a top midfielder) there just in case! but he did well enough.

Anyhow, I guess Rafa will have to explain this decission and clarify the refusal if it existed.

If it wasn't any refusal and even watching the experiment work, I wouldn't agree that decission.

by **112-1077774096** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 am

Zidane wrote:What pound was he thrown though? If you're saying back at Rafa, it's childish and stupid for him to do this but whatever.

at arsenal one season someone threw a pound coin at him from the crowd, he picked it up and threw it back and was sent off for it.

it transpired later that it was a magic coin as according to the arsenals fans in the press who the coin hit, it managed to change direction many times while striking various people without losing any momentum

by **Bam** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:10 am

peewee wrote:
Zidane wrote:What pound was he thrown though? If you're saying back at Rafa, it's childish and stupid for him to do this but whatever.

at arsenal one season someone threw a pound coin at him from the crowd, he picked it up and threw it back and was sent off for it.

it transpired later that it was a magic coin as according to the arsenals fans in the press who the coin hit, it managed to change direction many times while striking various people without losing any momentum

by **Redbilly1960** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:37 am

I don't honestly believe Carragher refused to play right back. I don't think Rafa is the kind of manager to allow players to dictate where and when they play.
Just another rumour started by people who love to b1tch about the players, manager, owners, COE and fans of Liverpool Football Club.
It baffles me why this forum tends to linger more on the negatives than the positives regarding Liverpool Football Club.
Jamie Carragher was never the greatest right back to pull on a red shirt and he certainly ain't in the same league as Hansen, Lawrenson, Thompson, Hughes, Smith and Yeats but the lad gives 110% every game he is not the quickest but he has a good footballers brain I for one don't think he deserves the slagging off he is getting.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:40 am

Rafa Benítez became embroiled in a bizarre exchange with BBC football reporter Ian Dennis after refusing to reveal why he selected Javier Mascherano at right-back for the game with Sunderland on Tuesday.

Questioned over his team selection following the 2-0 win, Benítez was at his most elusive when interviewed by Dennis. While the interview has been cut from the BBC website, Radio Five Live has provided a full airing of the lengthy game of question and avoidance.

Benítez: "Mascherano had to play there so we needed to do it in this way."

Dennis: "Jamie [Carragher] has played there before so why didn't you use him?"

Benítez: "Mascherano had to play there."

Dennis: "But why?"

Benítez: "Because Mascherano had to play there."

Dennis: "Was it a tactical decision?"

Benítez: "No. He had to play there."

Dennis: "Ok. Any news on your contract?"

Benítez: "No news. We have to enjoy our victory tonight."

Dennis: "You're not helping me much, Rafa! Come on! No clues?"

Benítez: "As I said, the best thing to do is enjoy the victory. I think everyone will be happy tonight."

Dennis: "Enjoy your evening."

Benítez's reluctance to discuss his selection at right-back was mirrored before the game. The Liverpool website still carries the following exchange made between the Spaniard and an unidentified radio hack in the wake of Saturday's 2-0 defeat at the Riverside:

Journalist: "Your injury problems meant you had to put Martin Skrtel at right-back against Middlesbrough. Could you explain why you didn't use Jamie Carragher in that position, and did you feel Martin struggled?"

Benítez: "We had to do it for this game, so we did it."

Journalist: "Do you think he maybe had a tough time in that position? Was it a bit unnatural for him?"

Benítez: "I was really pleased with him because he wanted to play in this position. It was good for the team."

by **bigmick** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:47 am

Hmmm. Does sound a bit dodgy right enough. Though I really like Carra, and though I'm not in the least surprised if he's got p!ssed off with the way Rafa has been carrying on (if indeed that's the reason or this "refusal to play there" has definately happened), I do think you should play where you're told.

All that said, Carra's the man so I'm not going to slag him off.

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:02 pm

There is 2 ways of looking at this - if its true that is.

1. Rafa has lost the dressing room slightly, players feeling they know better etc.
2. Carragher was asked to play right back and as a senior player spoke with the manager and advised he wasnt particulaly pleased with this, given that it was in a position that he doesnt favour and it was lining up against their best player, asking the manager if there was any alternative to playing him out of position again.

If its number one then thats worrying, if the players have lost faith it could easily lead to poor performances and even resignation to defeat when going behind, thats what the boro game was like, no fighting spirit once we went behind heads dropped and we just got worse with alot of players appearing to give up.

If its number two, then i dont mind that one bit, the manager makes the decisions and while all players should respect them, i dont think its wrong that they express concerns over a particular tactic or selection.
As vice captain and someone who is so experienced i dont think its so bad for him to give an opinion, senior players have done that for years.

Obviously there is a boundary still though and hopefuly if Rafa disagreed with Carragher or Gerrard or any other player for that matter, he should just explain why and go with how he wants to do things.

My feeling is its probably something of nothing, and the collapse at Boro was more to do with the fact that the players were already resigned to the fact that the league had gone after the city home draw.

by **Sabre** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:09 pm

Dennis: "But why?"

Benítez: "Because Mascherano had to play there."

Dennis: "Was it a tactical decision?"

Benítez: "No. He had to play there."

I guess that Rafa tried to clean the dirty clothes in the dressroom but it's pretty obvious that if Mascherano had to play there and it wasn't a tactical decission, there was a refusal.

It's hard to understand. I could understand a young player like Skrtl having an awful game in RB and crumbling down.

But I don't understand an experienced player refusing to accept to play a position.

However, as Mick points out, Carra deserves a lot of respect and I won't slag him off, even the less if I don't know the whole story.

But I'm pretty worried.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:26 pm

If JC has refused, knowing what we do about Rafa, dont you think that a)Carra would not have got on the pitch at all or b) will be sold at the end of the season?

Lets be honest Rafa doesn't take any sh|t of anyone.

Its got to be a load of balls...

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:38 pm

I think Carra may have questioned WHY we have no cover at right back rather than just outright refusing to play there. Although I don't doubt if he still believed we were in contention for the title he would have played there like a shot. I don't think Carra would risk losing a league title just for the inconvenience of playing out of position.

by **stmichael** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:50 pm

Song from RAWK to the tune of Amy Whinehosues "Rehab"

Rafa tried to make me go to rightback but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been full back but when Im centre back you'll know know know
I ain't got the legs even if Rafa thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rightback but I won't go go go

I'd rather be at home with sami
I ain't got the legs anymore
Cause there's nothing
There's nothing you can teach me
That I can learn anymore

They say I havent got a lot in class
But I know the shots dont pass

Rafa tried to make me go to rightback but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been full back but when Im centre back you'll know know know
I ain't got the legs even if Rafa thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rightback but I won't go go go

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:07 pm

cracker that StMick

by **maguskwt** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:07 pm

Sabre wrote:However, as Mick points out, Carra deserves a lot of respect and I won't slag him off, even the less if I don't know the whole story.

I don't care how long carra has been playing for liverpool, if he doesn't play where he's told to (where he indeed could do a job and not being asked to play as a striker or winger), it is not right. It is not a good example as a senior player he's putting out. Gerrard, the best player in the team and captain, plays where he's told to and so should carra. but yeah... i agree we don't know the whole story...

by **Sabre** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:31 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Sabre wrote:However, as Mick points out, Carra deserves a lot of respect and I won't slag him off, even the less if I don't know the whole story.

I don't care how long carra has been playing for liverpool, if he doesn't play where he's told to (where he indeed could do a job and not being asked to play as a striker or winger), it is not right. It is not a good example as a senior player he's putting out. Gerrard, the best player in the team and captain, plays where he's told to and so should carra. but yeah... i agree we don't know the whole story...

I see where you come from, I really do.

Sometimes I preffer to wait and see if I don't know the details, the alternative is to speculate and try to draw an scenario that fits my own beliefs. I preffer to wait especially because we haven't listened to Carra, for instance.

I don't decide not to slag him off because Carra cannot be criticised, but because speculation leads you to error more often than not and I preffer not to do that with Reds that have served the club for a long time.

Imagine that the Boro game Mascherano was played and we won, and yesterday Mascherano was played and we won. Imagine Rafa decides to attract all the criticism over his shoulders and say "it was my decission". An easy reaction for any fan would be "Rafa tinkering, playing a 15M CM at RB". While the reality would be "Rafa couldn't play Carra".

We never know all the details and I preffer to be cautious, but no doubt that by default, a player should play where he's commanded to.

P.S. Now I wonder aswell why Gerrard at RM, a succesful option in the past, haven't used again this season.

by **stmichael** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:35 pm

In all fairness though I just don't believe that a player such as Carra would refuse to play at right back. He might have said he'd prefer not to play there (Gerrard has done similar in the past) but he'd never refuse to do something the manager would tell him to do surely?

It's somewhat ironic that Liverpool messageboards and forums criticise the likes of Sky and the press for spinning stories out of mid-air and then an unsubstantiated piece of gossip like this comes along and people are giving it credence.

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